Racial Double Standards

I don't need to justify my thoughts or actions to you.

I've gone through this all day long with Suzuki, and he and I are cool on several levels here.

We've gone over this time and again, and it all comes down to the same thing. You may call it psychological, I call it acceptance of and acknowledgement that your own actions are your own responsibility, and that only you can account for them.

If you feel hurt becuase slavery happened, well, boo hoo...get over it. Nobody alive had anything to do with it, and if you feel like you need to talk to somebody to let your anger out, there's clinics all over teh country that would love to hear your thoughts.

I don't mean to be rude, but it's been a long day, I have a headache, and this is getting very old.

EDIT: Suzuki, yes I have. Through the use of minority only scholarships, colleges, etc. (like we went through before), that's all a form of reverse descrimination.

 

What is 50 or 60 years (hell, even 100 yrs.) compared to hundreds of years of slavery and/or segregation. It seems like you (the people who are accusing minorities of being lazy) just want to disregard the psychological effect of those events and say OK it ended in the 60's it's over let's move on....that's not reality.

What good does it do to perpetuate a cycle of oppression and bias?

You cannot overcome past injustices and work towards some ideal principle (i.e. non-discrimination) by violating that same principle or ideal.

You can't defeat discrimination by applying more discrimination.

Programs like Affirmative Action are especially dangerous because they impose discrimination without any sort of quantifiable criteria for when to end the program. How can you determine if the outcome is because we've achieved racial equality or only because the Affirmative Action is compensating for it? There's no way to tell the difference between the two.

Kimball Kinnison

 

No, it'll probably be self-righteousness that does it.

There's the pot callin' the kettle black. Pun unintended.

 

The pot calling the kettle black was more likely you telling me to 'get over myself'. Because of course being shut out of academic programs, alienated, and assaulted with racial slurs by random people I didn't know is comparable to people dissing NASCAR. And if it's not, that's even worse.

 

Kimball, what you call oppression or bias today can not even be compared to what I'm talking about.

Things like the U.N.C.F or affirmative action will not have the kind of psychological effect on a people that slavery has had.

They shouldnt even be compared to one another.


EDIT:things that I'm talking about are a "necessity" for rebuilding the psyche and morale of a people that have been subjected to slavery.
We (african americans) are not even in the "Position" to really apply the kind of discrimination that was dished out in the past.

 

Because of course being shut out of academic programs, alienated, and assaulted with racial slurs by random people I didn't know is comparable to people dissing NASCAR.

Dunno if you know it or not, but the Supreme Court said last year that only whites could be excluded from academic institutions on the basis of race.

BTW: Sorry for the bad start, I was pretty rude.

 

I remember them passing that, and it's stupid.

EDIT: things that I'm talking about are a "necessity" for rebuilding the psyche and morale of a people that have been subjected to slavery.


ALL people were subjected to slavery, so how do these programs help rebuild everybody's psyche? It doesnt'...it's purely one sided to help the black man feel loved.

 

Do you by chance remember the case name? I'm interested.

 

I don't, actually, but will look for it again.

They had it on CNN, I was at the gym riding a bike at the time when I read it.

 

Do you by chance remember the case name? I'm interested.

No, I don't, but it was just months ago.

 

If I'm correct, you're referring to the University of Michigan squabble Gratz vs. Bollinger in which the Supreme Court degreed that the promotion of diversity through Affirmative Action was a priority above the individual admission of whites who could not rise above the other whites they competed against for slots and thus looked for scapegoats.

Am I correct?

 

Kimball, what you call oppression or bias today can not even be compared to what I'm talking about.

Things like the U.N.C.F or affirmative action will not have the kind of psychological effect on a people that slavery has had.

They shouldnt even be compared to one another.

Yes they should.

It is nothing less than hypoctirical to preach the need for equality and tolerance on one hand, and then on the other hand advocating programs that are at their core discrimination. Hypocrisy always breeds contempt and anger towards the hypocrite.

You don't heal wounds by reversing the knife and stabbing the other person. What we need to do is set a goal (non-discrimination) and then work towards it. We don't work away from it by adding more discrimination.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Nor do they make a U turn.

Kimball Kinnison

 

Honestly, I don't know.

 

If I'm correct, you're referring to the University of Michigan squabble Gratz vs. Bollinger in which the Supreme Court degreed that the promotion of diversity through Affirmative Action was a priority above the individual admission of whites who could not rise above the other whites they competed against for slots and thus looked for scapegoats.

That may be the one. It allowed for points to be added to a student's application if they are not white, due to the expiriance of being a minority.

Now assuming a black man has a better life's expiriance than a white man is simply racist. You may justify the decision, but can't deny it is racist.

 

Darth-Horax you just dont get it (or are either in denial of the truth) The things I'm talking about are not that old.

The civil rights movement was only 30 or 40 years ago, THAT WAS NOT THAT LONG AGO. african americans being lynched is something that my parents and grandparents have talked about (from growing up in the south) and the most ignorant thing someone can say on this issue is "get over it" or "it's ancient history" and you've just let me know what level you're on.

 

What does life experience has to do with anything? The point of having a diversified student body is to expose people to as many outlooks and perspectives as possible.

 

The chances for an average black american child to:

- receive a good education
- avoid drugs
- avoid crime
- earn a salary about the poverty level
- not be affected by violence and domestic violence

are disproportionally lower than an average white american child of the same age.

Since this unequal position needs, by the dictates of social conscience, to be rectified, some programs will need to be put into place that counter some of the disadvantages black children face as they grow up.

Therefore, through necessity, social programs aimed at countering racial disadvantage will focus on and benefit certain race/s. That is unavoidable. I hope everyone agrees with this.

This is not to say that I am an automatic fan of AA. I think it is fraught with difficulty, especially in its applicability.

By the way - another phrase for reverse-discrimination is positive-discrimination. I prefer that.

 

You know nothing of me or who I am.

I have lived in Atlanta, brother, and know that it did exist. However, it's a different situation altogether when you're talking about things like affirmative action and displacing hard working white men from their jobs to fill a quote by hiring a black man.

It's a shame that lynchings and things like that did exist, but, at the same time, why should I, as a white man, sit idly by and watch as other people get hand outs and one ups due to the color of their skin.

It's flat out descrimination, and you know it.

Just cause I'm white doesnt' mean I don't deserve the same things that you feel blacks do.

My father lost his job because of AA, when the peson who replaced him had NO EDUCATION OR EXPERIENCE. My dad had 29 years with the company and a degree and was up for advancement, and he had to start over cause a black man threatened to sue.

Is that right? NO it isn't.

So dont' tell me I don't know what's going on.

 

Kimball, COLDLIGHT basically said what I dont have time to say because I'm off to work.
I'll pick back up either tonight or tomorrow

L8R

 

The point of having a diversified student body is to expose people to as many outlooks and perspectives as possible.

When an institution decides between two equally qualified applicants based on race, it is the very definition of the action of racism.

Like I said, you may agree with the rational, but you can't call it anything but racism. I believe Dr. King would be dissappointed. Honestly, that is my belief, not a lame attempt at a cheap shot as I greatly respect Dr. King.

His teachings and work went way beyond black civil rights and into how a free society should think and feel, IMO.

 

Dr. King's feelings were Utopianistic. This is not Utopia. There are evils and darker evils, and we must choose the lesser. Choosing between two equally qualified applicants based on race is exactly how Affirmative Action should be used. Exactly.

 

I agree. IF you look at the post where I posted Dr. King's speech, you'll see that it was meant for all people, not just blacks.
He did not say that he wanted blacks to have advantages that included taking away another person's freedoms.

However, that is what AA is doing. It may not be intended for that, but it's what's happening.

It needs to be restructured so there is no discrimination.

EDIT: but Suzuki, that's racism in it's purest form when you choose somebody based solely on race! You know that!

 

Choosing between two equally qualified applicants based on race is exactly how Affirmative Action should be used. Exactly.

I understand. But it is racist. Absolutely racist and you can't seem to deny it.

 

Also,
Choosing the lesser of two evils still does not make it right.

There's always another option.

 

And that other option is?