Racial Double Standards

provide the stats to back that claim up then.

Otherwise, it amounts to no more than your previous statement of "Will Smith PROBABLY makes less than other stars," but without providing statistics to show who earns what.

 

Blacks with equal credentials have less than half the chance of a White with equal credentials and a drug conviction of getting the same job.

I'm sorry, but you brought that up before, and couldn't prove it. Infact, I blew holes in the single, unsubstatiated reference that you provided.

How about the United Negro College fund ? (sorry if I've got the name wrong). Money available exclusively for the black community to go to college - surely thats a perfect example of a racist organisation.

 

My point, MR44, was not that Will doesn't have as much money because of discrimination, but that he's not the richest star in Hollywood. Which is to say, for whatever reason, the richest star is probably white. But I could be wrong.


I know Ahnold got paid the most money ever for one movie but I don't think he is the richest overall.

 

Malkie, you didn't blow holes in anything. You said, "Well how did they know they weren't lying?" and when I asked for clarification you gave up.

Malkie, how about you prove that a white person couldn't conceivably get a UNCF scholarship? I don't see any requirement that says otherwise yet, but I'm still looking. Other than the name, it seems, there's no race requirement(that I've found).

 

My point, MR44, was not that Will doesn't have as much money because of discrimination, but that he's not the richest star in Hollywood. Which is to say, for whatever reason, the richest star is probably white. But I could be wrong.

Again though, what does that illustrate?

Maybe Will Smith doesn't make as many movies, because he spends more time with his family?

Or he picks only projects that he likes, instead making movies just for a paycheck?

or any of other real world examples that could factor in.

To say that the richest star is probably white, ignores every other factor in the world, besides race. That's not fair.

Ever more importantly, I believe the richest entertainer has consistantly been Oprah Winfrey, who just happens to be black.

Howver, I don't think the reason is attributed to her skin color, but because she consistantly delivers a product that her audience wants to watch.

 

Irrespective of the problems I had with the paper you referenced, nothing alters the fact that it was a single study, performed by a Masters student. It's hardly a Government research document.

My 'lying' comment was extremely simple. Basically, in the vast majority of applications (75%) they were asked if they had a criminal record, but it was never ever checked. So, perhaps all the white people lied and said they didn't have a criminal record and got away with it because it wasn't checked. Without knowing if the employers actually knew that the applicant had a criminal record the study was flawed.

However, see above - it's only a Master's student thesis paper.

how about you prove that a white person couldn't conceivably get a UNCF scholarship?

I think the title of the scholarship fund is a bit of a give away.

 

Mr44, I was merely offering the fact that there are a lot of white rich and powerful as well as blacks, and both can be classified as "exceptions".

 

My 'lying' comment was extremely simple. Basically, in the vast majority of applications (75%) they were asked if they had a criminal record, but it was never ever checked. So, perhaps all the white people lied and said they didn't have a criminal record and got away with it because it wasn't checked. Without knowing if the employers actually knew that the applicant had a criminal record the study was flawed.

Did you even read this study? The applications were fixed. All the white applications for those representing the drug criminal demographic were filled out with that included. Furthermore, even if you only use the stats from the background checks the results are much similar.

EDIT: The title of the UNCF is not the issue. Or are you saying that Native Americans can't get these scholarships because they aren't Negro? That would be both incorrect and contradicting the title. It seems like you are the one making assumptions without hard facts despite your efforts to claim that it's me.

 

Did you even read this study? The applications were fixed. All the white applications for those representing the drug criminal demographic were filled out with that included. Furthermore, even if you only use the stats from the background checks the results are much similar.

Of course I read the study. I'm dropping this point unless you can (a) prove no-one lied on an unchecked application AND (b) provide a source that isn't a student's essay.


Quote from UNCF.

Q: Does UNCF only support African American education?

A: UNCF was founded to address the funding inequities regarding educational resources for African Americans. UNCF believes in higher education opportunities for all Americans, however. Though most funding supports African American students, UNCF member schools do not discriminate and UNCF administered scholarships are open to all ethnic groups.

I'd be interested to see what the percentage of non-black students were supported.

However, the point of this thread (imo) is that this funding body exists, and gets multi-millio dollar support from the likes of CocaCola and Microsoft, yet if a "Support the Whites" college fund was created there would be outcry. That is the double standard.

(returns neatly to my soccer comment earlier)

 

Devah Pager is a professor. Even if she was a student while doing this, how would that make mathematical data incorrect? Your excuses are weak, Malkie, and even you have to know this. First of all, there were only two white people and two black people, making the chance of application error nil. You can believe anything you want to believe if you put your hands over your ears and scream "That's not true!" but it won't change anything. Mathematical, experimental, empirical, proven, professor approved, published, outside source approved work. You have no argument.

That's what it was created for, that doesn't mean it's black exclusive. And since it isn't, you don't have all that much of an argument here besides the name.

 

Then why haven't they changed their name ? And why is their annual report full of pictures of black people, and success stories of black people ?

Would you be happy with a "Whites Only" soccer team ? Or a "Whites Only" club, or work place etc etc ?

 

Would you be happy with a "Whites Only" soccer team ? Or a "Whites Only" club, or work place etc etc ?

You mean like a golf club? Or a science institution?

 

You mean like a golf club? Or a science institution?

such as ?

 

You mean like a golf club? Or a science institution?

Which is why these threads always degenerate.

As you said yourself, exceptions don't automatically prove the rule.

I'm sure a golf club somewhere refused an application based on the color of a person's skin, but that doesn't mean such is the rule. I would argue that practically, people don't even care about skin color anymore.

Just as you dismiss the Will Smith example as being an exception, could this also represent an exception that doesn't illustrate anything larger?

I'll always remember Colin Powell's response to a young black student's question during a "rock the vote" interview during the campaign (which I'm paraphrasing)

This student asked Colin Powell if he deserved to be the black Secretary of State, because he had "sold out."

Colin Powell looked at him and replied "I'm not a black Secretary of State, and I'm not a white Secretary of State. I worked my hardest, and became the most qualified PERSON for the job."

That's the attitude that is a credit to everyone.

 

Mr. 44, shame on you, no one is saying that all whites have it better than all non-whites. Your Will Smith example is flawed.

I agree with the idea you are trying to get across, to an extent. How many non-white CEO's are there? Heck how many non-male CEO's are there? How many non-white owners of sports teams are there?

Their are institutional biases. There are glass ceilings. There is a cycle of poverty.

It is much harder for the average non-white to succeed than it is for the average white person.

 

I wish we all could be like Colin Powell. But I most wish that there were more people like those who hired him. Because the fact is, without Affirmative Action, black people, even those who are qualified enough, would be the exception and not the rule. In fact, even with Affirmative Action today it's still the exception. There are just some places, some competitions that, based on who's judging, I know going in that if I'm not decisively better than my opponent I'll probably lose.

 

Vital Signs: Statistics That Measure the State of Racial Inequality

In each issue, The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education collects statistics bearing on the relative status of blacks and whites, some of which are interesting but not particularly important whereas others are highly relevant and critical to the measurement of racial progress.
(Note: Boldface type suggests items of positive or important change.)

? The median income of non-Hispanic white households in the United States in 2003: $47,777
? The median income of African-American households in the United States in 2003: $29,689 (U.S. Bureau of the Census)

? The poverty rate of non-Hispanic white households in the United States in 2003: 6.1%
? The poverty rate of African-American households in the United States in 2003: 23.1% (U.S. Bureau of the Census)

? Percentage of African-American children under the age of 18 in 2003 who lived in poverty: 33.1%
? Percentage of African-American children under the age of 18 in 2003 who lived in households that received public assistance: 10.6% (U.S. Bureau of the Census)

? Percentage of non-Hispanic white Americans who did not have health insurance coverage in 2003: 11.1%
? Percentage of African Americans who did not have health insurance coverage in 2003: 19.6% (U.S. Bureau of the Census)

? Percentage of all white high school students in 2003 who reported smoking cigarettes at least once a month: 24.9%
? Percentage of all African-American high school students in 2003 who reported smoking cigarettes at least once a month: 15.1% (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)

? In 2003, the percentage of white Americans over the age of 18 who had graduated from high school: 84.2%
? In 2003, the percentage of African Americans over the age of 18 who had graduated from high school: 78.7% (U.S. Bureau of the Census)

? Percentage of white students in the twelfth grade in 2003 who reported using illegal drugs within the past 30 days: 26.5%
? Percentage of African-American students in the twelfth grade in 2003 who reported using illegal drugs within the past 30 days: 17.9% (National Institute on Drug Abuse)

? The percentage of all delegates at the Democratic National Convention in 1988 who were black: 23.1%
? The percentage of all delegates at the Democratic National Convention in 2004 who were black: 20.1% (Joint Center for Political Studies)

? Total employees of the United States Department of Justice in June 2004: 100,915
? Percentage of all Justice Department employees who are black: 17.8% (U.S. Department of Justice)

? Percentage of white American adult women with high blood pressure: 26.6%
? Percentage of African-American adult women with high blood pressure: 39.5% (National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey)

? Total enrollments of African Americans at the nation's historically black colleges and universities in 1980: 190,989
? Total enrollments of African Americans at the nation's historically black colleges and universities in 2001: 238,638 (U.S. Department of Education)

? Total enrollments of white Americans at the nation's historically black colleges and universities in 1980: 24,362
? Total enrollments of African Americans at the nation's historically black colleges and universities in 2001: 34,908 (U.S. Department of Education)

? Total enrollments of black men at the nation's historically black colleges and universities in 2001: 90,718
? Total enrollments of black women at the nation's historically black colleges and universities in 2001: 147,920 (U.S. Department of Education)

? Total number of bachelor's degrees earned by African Americans at all colleges and universities in the United States in the year 2000: 104,158
? Total number of bachelor's degrees earned by African Americans at all historically black colleges and universities in the United States in the year 2000: 25,098 (U.S. Department of Education)

? The percentage of all native-born blacks in the United States over the age of 25 who have obtained at least a bachelor's degree: 16.3%
? The perce

 

ManoWan, well done.

 

Armenian_Jedi posted on 2/9/05 10:51am

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ManoWan, well done. [face_applause]

[hr][/blockquote]

Yes indeed! Good job on quoting something from a journal! [face_applause]


An interesting article today was published concerning the Ward Churchill situation. Apparently he is not qualified to teach at his university, as that he only has a Masters degree, not a doctorate, and was hired due to being percieved of Native American ancestry, which he is not, although he led the hiring committee to believe he was.

Therefore, a man who does not have the qualificationa to teach at a university was given that job because he was thought to fit into a category that would make the college look like it was promoting diversity.


[link=http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/news_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_86_3530404,00.html]Article [/link]

 

Yes indeed! Good job on quoting something from a journal!





Someone asked to see proof of everything being said. ManoWan provided the proof. I said Well done.

You were warned before, in this very thread.

 

Malkie I dont think you really understand.

There was no reason for ManoWan to have to go bring up that info, the facts stare you right in the face.

Why does there need to be a month to celebrate white history or college funds or orginizations strictly for white people?

WE ALL know that in this country african americans were slaves all the way up until the end of the 1800's and had to deal with segregation all the way up until the 1960's and early 1970's, that info alone "AT LEAST" justifies such things as affirmative action or a U.N.C.F. or a black history month (which IMO should actually be more than a single month).

When it comes to racism I've heard some people say such things as "get over it" or "it's all in the past" let me remind ALL OF YOU that these issues ARE NOT THAT OLD. My Grandparents were born in the early 1900's and had to deal with a lot of racism, these issues can have a psychological affect on a race of people that can not possibly be easily erased just over a 30 or 40 year time span. To say that there should be a "white history month" or groups that have college funds strictly for white people is not equality, you cant look at the small picture you have to look at the big picture (and that consist of the history of african americans in this country). You dont need statistics to justify these things, all you need is a little humanity and common sense.

The psyche and morale of african american people as a whole is so low because of things that happen in the past that I think its very good that some things are exclusive to black people.

To say it's not fair or equal is kind of silly.

It's like a family (father,mother,and son) adopting a child from an orphanage (who never had anything) and buying him things and uplifting his spirits and the first child saying "it's not fair" after he's had everything he's wanted for so many years.

C'mon now.


EDIT:look at my sig

 

Armenian_Jedi posted on 2/9/05 2:50pm

---

[i]Yes indeed! Good job on quoting something from a journal![/i]


[face_plain]


Someone asked to see proof of everything being said. ManoWan provided the proof. I said Well done. Can you comprehend that. Or are you too busy being a smart ass?
[hr][/blockquote]

I wouldn't call that proof. What does the difference in whites and african-americans smoking have to do with the topic? I think he could have better proved whatever point he was making than just cut and pasting a list that doesn't necessarily pertain to the topic at hand.

 

It goes to prove that these "double standards" are not only justified but necessary.

 

That's not true, what he provided was just data without any context.

One item of data he did not provide: Difference in salaries based on position/experience/time based on skin color.

Someone mentioned earlier that there aren't many black CEOs.

Average CEO age? 56 Some easy math means born roughly in 1950 which means college in 1970.

What was the rate of blacks graduating from college back then?

What? Should we demand blacks be hired at rates consistant with the population until things are equal regardless of any other factors? Social change takes time, trying to jury rig it into appearing to be accomplished with equality quotas is both harmful and stupid.

High school drop outs? Since 1972-2001 the rate for whites has droped 5 points from 12.3 to 7.3. In the same time the rate for blacks dropped from 21.3 to 10.9.

Is it higher? Yes, however it is only .1 higher then the total average drop out rate. If anyone needs help it's hispanics whose drop out rate in 2001 was still 27%.

Social change takes time.

 

My grandparents too, came to this country in the early 1900's with nothing but the clothes on their backs and suffered a tremendous amount of racism and bigotry.

Just because of their heritage, they were assumed to be things they weren't. They grew up in extreme poverty.

They worked their way out though. They worked their asses off for endless hours every day for years and made something of themselves despite the attitude many people had toward them during this period of history in this country.

I'm forever proud of them for everything they did to survive. My grandfather even went and fought for this country; one that gave him such a hard time. He was stationed in North Africa during WWII and fought against Rommel. Helped defeat the greatest evil this world has ever seen.

My grandparents were given nothing. Neither was my mother and father. Neither was I.




My grandparents were Italian and Irish.




Racism and bigotry isn't a one-way street. Lots of people of all races, creeds and colors have suffered because of appearance and heritage. Let's remember that.