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Racial Double Standards

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Suzuki_Akira, Feb 9, 2005.

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  1. Suzuki_Akira

    Suzuki_Akira Jedi Master star 7

    Registered:
    May 13, 2003
    Okay, can I be CEO of Oracle now?
     
  2. Darth-Horax

    Darth-Horax Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2001
    Faraday,
    If you read our above discussions, and I won't get into this again, it proves that a lot, not all, but a lot of minorites say they are in a situation because "THE MAN" is keeping them down.

    We have come to the understanding that with current processes put in place like Affirmative Action and scholarship and grants available through the NAACP and other groups, there's no reason that any one individual cannot make something of themself.

    It comes down to individual drive and effort.

    Look at you, you go to NU at Lincoln, and are in ROTC. You're making something of yourself...you didn't have to, no matter what mom and dad may have said. You made the conscious decision to go and do it, and I commend you.

    I decided to do it for myself, becuase I realized the world didn't owe me anything. The world is not racist.
     
  3. Mr44

    Mr44 VIP star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 21, 2002
    Well, since we are focuing on statistics, how about these:

    he most important reason for the cessation of progress among black Americans has been the collapse of the black family. The good news is that only 13 percent of black children in intact families lived in poverty in 1995. That was down from 61 percent in 1959 and 25 percent in 1969. But by many other measures, the news overall is much worse:

    An astonishing 85 percent of all poor black children lived in fatherless families in 1995.

    A black child in a single-parent family is five times more likely to be poor than one in a two-parent family.

    Between 1960 and 1994, the percentage of black births to unmarried mothers rose from 22 percent to 70 percent.

    In the growing category of black single-parent families, poverty has barely fallen: 62 percent of children in such families were poor in 1995, a small decline from 68 percent in 1969.

    The collapse of the family affects all Americans (see Chapter 6), and poverty in this country is not simply a question of black and white:

    Blacks account for 27 percent of the poor.

    Hispanics account for 24 percent of the poor.

    Two-thirds of the poor are white.

    Nearly half the poor are non-Hispanic whites.

    More white children than blacks are born out of wedlock, but these problems disproportionately affect black America, and racial preferences have not helped.


    SOURCE

     
  4. Jediflyer

    Jediflyer Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2001
    So whites naturally have more individual drive than blacks, Thorax?

     
  5. Darth-Horax

    Darth-Horax Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2001
    Suzuki, you CAN be CEO of Oracle. You just need to make that your goal and WORK TOWARDS IT. Study hard and apply yourself, and you can get it.

    You think Lebron James was just born with his talent? No, he had to work for it. He worked his butt off to get to where he is, and it's reaping benefits.

    It's like that with everybody.

    It may be difficult if you're born in the ghetto (and don't ANYBODY tell me differntly or say that I don't knwo what I'm talking about, I lived in the ghetto in Camden, NJ for some time, so I DO know something about this subject), but with the programs in place, if you want something, you CAN achieve it if you apply yourself.

    EDIT: That's not what I said, Flyer. It comes down to people taking responsibility for their own actions. YOu've done it, I've done it, Suzuki's done it...if everybody did it, they'd be masters of their own domain. I know tons of lazy white people, too, so it's nondiscriminate. Laziness is inherent in lots of people, we need to learn how to overcome it.
     
  6. Suzuki_Akira

    Suzuki_Akira Jedi Master star 7

    Registered:
    May 13, 2003
    Aww screw Oracle, I wanna be a Senator!

    Heh. But I'm sure it's possible for people from the ghetto to succeed, just as it's possible for rich kids to succeed, but the difference in the likelihood of each has little to do with drive and determination.
     
  7. malkieD2

    malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2002
    Wow Malkie. I am scared to think that you may actually believe that.

    You have GOT to be kidding me.


    Prove me wrong. Where is it written that a black man can't be a manager ? What's stopping him?

    Perhaps more-often-than-not the best person for the job isn't a minority - why should the employer be forced into employing the lesser candidate to avoid looking like a racist ?

    Employers should be allowed to employ the best candidate no matter what - and undoubtably if the best candidate was a minority then they'd get the job. I'm pretty sure if I was incharge of a big company I'd want to have the best work-force working for me.
     
  8. Mr44

    Mr44 VIP star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 21, 2002
    That's not Farraday.

    Farraday has the dashing red color of a former mod.
     
  9. ManoWan

    ManoWan Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2002
    You are very uninformed Malkie if you believe that the hiring practices of most major companies in the US are fair to Latinos and Blacks. Blacks and Latinos are not a group of unqualified lazy people.

    Good point 44. Let's talk about where many of these fathers are.

    Let's talk about prisons and the inequality in the number of whites males in jail and the number of black males in jail.

    The differences are staggering. Most prisoners are black and latino accross the country. Is that because blacks and latinos are commiting most of the crime in the US?

    Impossible, we are only a small part of the population.

    So, could it be that blacks and latinos get put in jail more than their white counterparts? Even ones who commit the same crimes?

    The prison industrial complex is big business my friend.
     
  10. Darth-Horax

    Darth-Horax Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2001
    That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of.

    How come everytime a white man gets robbed it's by a minority?

    That's a stupid thing to say, too, but I was using it to make a point.

    I work in government on the county level, and the bottom line is that the people who go to jail are those who believe that the world owes them something,a nd they get put in jail for either stealing it or trying to find a way to beat the system.

    It doesnt' matter about your color. Hell, our Mayor is latino, and our chief judge is black. YOu can't say the ocurts are culturally biased.
     
  11. Suzuki_Akira

    Suzuki_Akira Jedi Master star 7

    Registered:
    May 13, 2003
    I think that Affirmative Action should be a tiebreaker.
     
  12. Jediflyer

    Jediflyer Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2001
    I was priveleged to be raised by a married parents who had a stable job and had enough money to send me to good Catholic schools. If any of those circumstances had been changed, I would have been a much different person.

     
  13. Darth-Horax

    Darth-Horax Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2001
    So, if you have two people trying for the same job, I mean totally the same everything, degrees, experience, then AA should be the tie breaker and the minority gets hired automatically?

    That's as racist as anything I've heard.

    However, it IS difficult situation.

    they should have an arm wrestling match to decide.


    EDIT: Flyer, you're right. You were lucky in that regard. However, YOU ultimately made the choice to go to school and do the things you did.

    Heck, one of my good friends that I knew in Camden was just a young buck coming up in the world. He was surrounded by a broken home and drug pushers every day of his life. He was shot at several times a week becuase he was in the game. He decided to get out, and started honing his school skills, as well as utilizing some NASTY basketball skills. He went on to get a scholarship to Memphis, and is now in the NBA with the CAvaliers...you may all know his as Dajuan Wagner. I know him personally as Juanny. He made the decision that he wanted out, but he knew he needed the grades for college. He stoppped hanging out with his boys and started learning. I knwo, cause I helped to tutor the young buck.

    It's all about desire, my friends.
     
  14. Suzuki_Akira

    Suzuki_Akira Jedi Master star 7

    Registered:
    May 13, 2003
    How come everytime a white man gets robbed it's by a minority?

    ?
     
  15. ManoWan

    ManoWan Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2002
    Of the 2,850,620 Americans in prison, black males account for 792,000 of them. "Making up 12-13 percent of the United States population, African-Americans account for 38 percent of [the] prison population," Harris said. "If these populations were represented proportionally, there would only be about 200,000 black males in prison."

    http://www.cornellsun.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/02/04/420310db124ef
     
  16. malkieD2

    malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2002
    You are very uninformed Malkie if you believe that the hiring practices of most major companies in the US are fair to Latinos and Blacks. Blacks and Latinos are not a group of unqualified lazy people.

    Perhaps I am guilty of seeing the world through rose coloured glasses, but where is your evidence to support your claim ? Which companies actively discriminate against minorities ?

    I'm sure many companies do have disproportionate numbers of whites versus minorities - but that isn't in itself evidence of discrimination. (See above post)

    Most prisoners are black and latino accross the country. Is that because blacks and latinos are commiting most of the crime in the US?

    Yes, unless you have evidence to support your further claim :-

    So, could it be that blacks and latinos get put in jail more than their white counterparts? Even ones who commit the same crimes?
     
  17. Mr44

    Mr44 VIP star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 21, 2002
    Aww screw Oracle, I wanna be a Senator!


    But again, this is a fallacy of your own perception. You're taking your own perception, applying that personal bias, and attempting to wrap reality around it.

    Do you have an MBA? Have you served in similiar management positions? Do you have any experience at all?

    The reason that you aren't CEO isn't because of your skin color, but because of practical reasons.

    You certainly can earn that MBA, and work your way up through smaller companies to gain experience. Your opportunities are the same as everyone elses.

    I'm white, and tomorrow, I couldn't just become the CEO of Oracle.

    Again, the goal of these programs shouldn't be to make everyone equal. Like one of the first examples used, I'd like to be like Will Smith, but I never will in my chosen profession. This has nothing to do with either of our skin tones.

    However, everyone has the opportunity to try and make a movie.
     
  18. DeathStar1977

    DeathStar1977 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 31, 2003
    While I certainly appreciate all of the personal stories, I am surprised to see no acknowledgment in discussing of admissions in regards to 'legacies'.

    Speaking of personal stories [face_mischief]...a guy (white) at my business is a partner and also happens to be the son-in-law of one of the owners. Hes smart, competent and has a good background. But so do a lot of other people where I work who have more experience (not yours truly). I bear no ill will to the guy, he's not a blithering idiot, but he certainly benefits from 'connections'. Thats how many people get jobs.

    But for all of the talk of a 'racial double standard', lets not forget that there are a lot of people who get jobs and get into school based mainly due to who they are related to, and I'd be willing to bet that a majority of those people are white like me.
     
  19. ManoWan

    ManoWan Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2002
    Here Malkie to get you started

    brutal discrimination battles that blacks have waged in recent years against Texaco, Coca Cola, American Airlines, Seven Up/RC Bottling, Hyundai Semiconductor in Oregon, Toyota Motors and countless other companies is bitter proof that the corporate racial glass ceiling"

    http://www.dickgregory.com/dick/blacks_losing_ground.html


    Of the 2,850,620 Americans in prison, black males account for 792,000 of them. "Making up 12-13 percent of the United States population, African-Americans account for 38 percent of [the] prison population," Harris said. "If these populations were represented proportionally, there would only be about 200,000 black males in prison."

    http://www.cornellsun.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/02/04/420310db124ef
     
  20. Suzuki_Akira

    Suzuki_Akira Jedi Master star 7

    Registered:
    May 13, 2003
    EDIT: That post was directed at someone saying "nothing stops anyone from doing whatever they want"

    Blacks account for 12% of the population and are the targets of 66.1% of racial hate crimes.
     
  21. Darth-Horax

    Darth-Horax Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2001
    And I agree that that is jacked up Suzuki. That needs to stop.

    HOwever, saying that the % of crime is based on % of blacks in an area is ludicrous. I'll also bet that data is skewed by where the test was taken.

    if you took a test of the population of Camden, more blacks will commit crimes than whites. However, if it was taken in Salt Lake City, more whites woudl commit crimes than blacks. Anybody knwo why? Right, it's cause there's more people of that color in those respective cities.

    I do not believe for one moment that the reason there are more minorities in prison is not because they do the crimes, but because they're being discriminated against.

    Just ridiculous.

     
  22. Darth-Horax

    Darth-Horax Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2001
    Blacks get paid more than whites in teh NBA. :)
     
  23. ManoWan

    ManoWan Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2002
    The question is why aren't their white counterparts who are also doing the same crimes also in jail?

    The Black NBA players don't make as much as the white owners.

     
  24. Suzuki_Akira

    Suzuki_Akira Jedi Master star 7

    Registered:
    May 13, 2003
    I don't want to say that it's because the black players are better, even though that's true in some cases. I'll just say that pay probably has to do with money. A black bench warmer likely does not make as much money as Dirk Nowitzki.
     
  25. DeathStar1977

    DeathStar1977 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 31, 2003
    Mr44

    Will Smith could easily be the exception to the rule. I am fairly certain a few years ago there was an uproar because there were no minorities in feature roles during prime time.

    Also, I believe big companies, such as Coca-Cola, have had to pay large settlements due to racial discrimination in its hiring/promoting practices.

    Now I agree with OWM that what happens in your occupation regarding testing is 'whack' (although I probably would use a different word ;)). And for every company that is involved in such discriminatory practices there are probably dozens or more who do not. But IMO its important to fully acknowledge that it (along with legacies) does happen. I guess the question is, what to do about it, or better yet, what is the best way to solve the problem without using the silly standards that were applied at your precinct.
     
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