Racism in ROTS

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by sushimilk, Jan 15, 2006.

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  1. LadyZaraMarta Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2004
    star 5
    A very interesting question.

    I believe there was anti alien feeling growing in the Republic due to the fact that many of the Separtistists were non human. Sidious had a talent using people's emotions. He used this anti alien feeling and the worlds of the Separtistists to further his cause.

    You can view all the films and noticed there are anti-human and anti droid prejudice.
    How many non humans are Imperials?

    Look at our own history. Did not Adolf Hitler use feeling against the Jews to further his cause? He looked for a scrapgoat to blame Germany's problems and found one.

    As to Mace Windu - Windu has many years experience on the Council. Very attuned to the Force. Was I mistaken or did Mace actually take up for Anakin at one time during ATOC?

    Intolerance was a very ugly part of the Empire.Intolerance aided in keeping beings subjugated.
  2. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    I agree.


    ***
    BTW, Hiya LZM!!!
  3. anakin_luver Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2005
    star 5

    How is that racism? It's called being smart. Yoda is more understanding than 5 Mace's put together. And the friction between Mace and Anakin has nothing to do with race...We are all aware of what it had to do with so it would be pointless to repeat it. Going to Mace after the discovery of Sidious was also common sense. Mace takes more action than Yoda...Jedi were being killed and Yoda was still talking calmy with Bail and Obi-Wan...I'm not saying Yoda should have been freaking out, but COME ON. It doesn't take 5 minutes to make that sort of decision.
  4. windu25 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2005
    star 1
    Mace did take up for Anakin throughout AOTC. A lot of people forget that fact and they only remember ROTS "I don't trust him", line. Anakin was on a dark path that only grows darker from AOTC to ROTS and I'm sure Mace was picking up on that by the time of ROTS.

    As for racism in Star Wars, I feel there is some in the movies. Also there is racism in the Star War universe, if you all check out Shatterpoint, Mace is almost killed by white settlers while trying to save them - just because of his appearance.
  5. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    Anakin only had issue with Mace in ROTS, which comes when he drops the bombshell about not being a Master. Actually, he was more upset at the Council in general than just Mace. He really takes issue with him once Palpatine's identity gets out. And Yoda is more experienced than Mace. He also bypasses Obi-wan, his former Master and best friend, for the Grand Master of the Jedi Order.
  6. Darth_Zoo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2002
    star 4
    Sorry, but the idea that Anakin was racist against Mace is waaaaaay out in left field.

    I do think an argument can be made that Attack of the Clones is racist 8-}. Does anyone remember the reviewer who said the Clones were arabs because lucas was trying to milk the fears of terrorists. Making all storm troopers part of a inter-galactic cell of al-Queda no doubt!
  7. TheCRZA Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2005
    star 4
    Clones Arab?

    Then whomever alleges that is just ignorant.
    Temuera Morrison (Jango and thus all clones)
    is a Maori from New Zealand.

    Also, AOTC was filmed before 9/11, before Al-Queda
    was really on the public radar as bad guys.
    We supported them as the mujahadeen in years past.
  8. Tiershon_Fett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2000
    star 5
    There's no racism at all. Mace and Anakin are both human.

    Besides I am so sick of the race card being brought out. It's so ridiculous.

    Most "racism" is merely perceived racism, anyway. That, "Oh sure, you didn't hire me because I'm ______!!!" That's perceived, not actual. But I suppose one can justify their poor lot in life by moaning this phrase whenever things don't end up how they want or expect.

    There is such a thing as just not liking someone. I don't like all white people. I don't like all black people either, nor asian, arab, etc., etc... I don't hate or love all of anything. Some people are jerks and I don't like them. No one race or group has any exclusive rights to idiocy and stupidity.

    Anakin didn't like Mace because he bent over backwards to make Mace like him and approve of him, but he never did. And he still felt sadness over Mace's death. Mace wouldn't have cared less if Anakin croaked. Doesn't that make Mace a 'racist'? :rolleyes:
  9. Tiershon_Fett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2000
    star 5
    Besides, I forgot to add this before the edit timed out.

    LEIA said the most racist thing in the saga: Will somebody get this big walking carpet out of my way!

    That was it. Leia, an Imperialist human, being contemputous with a Wookie.

    I bet Chewie thought, "This brat should be Darth Vader's daughter, with the way she is! Bail Organa is too nice to have a kid like that!"

    As far as canotations of Neimoidions go, I knew an Asian girl and she always complained that her mom is the typical spoiled grabby asain. She always wants to be given everything but gives nothing. She gamblee away her kids inheritance and bought herself lavish gifts, but made her kids pay rent when they were only 15, 16. She never gave them a penny of the money their father left them.

    So there just might some truth to that portrayal. I have also talked to Chinese girs that try to excuse greedy asian mail order bride. They call them JOB's. Just Off the Boat. They contend that once they are in America for a while, their greed is kind of mellowed when they calm down a bit. They say American born asians aren't that way. So how can it be racist to portray people in a certain way when their own kind admit they are that way?.

    Okay? That is the real world.

    Neimoidians are green amphibious creatures and they are only looking out for themselves. There's nothing inherently wrong with desiring nice things. It's when we put our own desires above the needs of others that we go astray. I think the theme that runs through all of SW is this distaste for selfishness. Distaste for personal gain at other's expense. It's the very first thing GL tells us. The balance of the force is in jeopardy when peple are self absorbed and greedy. It's all layered togther. It's reflective of Anakin's fall. Anakin's fall is reflective of a glaxy turned apathetic and greedy.

    I believe this was more a protest against corporate greed at the expense of the little guy and more of a protest against big, cold business. Which the Empire becomes.
  10. The_Chibi_Kiriyama Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2005
    star 1
    Lucas blew a canary fit when reporters initially asked him whether the accents given to Jar-Jar Binks and Watto's characters was a stereotype. How do you think he would respond to yet another thread making a race card insinuation? I'd tell you if it weren't so easily spelled out. Seriously people, racism is a train of thought. You want the train of thought to go away so badly? Prove the self-proclaimed 'racists' wrong?

    It's a secret.

    No, come closer to the screen, I have something to say that you might want to read...

    STOP
    ACKNOWLEDGING
    IT!


    Hope that solves the racism issue in society (...as if...). That aside, I can't see how a man who is into peaceful religions and is about as politically correct as it is possible to get (ref. the infamous Mustafar conversation) would intentionally inject biased remarks in his movies. If you acknowledge that, then Samuel L. Jackson is a racist in comparison for participating in a racist trilogy for the purpose of propogating racism. Which makes as much sense as it sounds. Stratch that- which makes as much sense as this thread.

    On a parting note, rememeber this: Anakin's 'high ground' incident and Mace Windu's taser experience shows us all something very important.

    You don't have to be black or white to be a dumb***.
  11. MystikalMaceWindu Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2005
    star 3
    It's easy for those not affected directly by racism to simply dismiss it all, and say, oh, don't acknowledge it. Simply ignoring it, and not acknowledging doesn't make it go away. but, again, it's easy if you're not affected by racism directly to simply try to wave it away, like one may cigarette smoke.
    Now, if you're saying well, people shouldn't turning over every stone trying to look for it in a movie when it's not really there in major doses, that's one thing.
    Seems like there's two arguments going on here. one is about racism in the world, and one is about racism in Star Wars movies, and there's also the overlap between the two.
    Racism does exist, BUT whether one sees racism/racial prejudice in the movies is dependent upon the individual's world views, experiences, learnings, and perspectives.
    I do see racist elements in the Star Wars, and just as much, I see such elements in many movies.
    I've seen worse than what's in Star Wars, but, like any movie, the Star Wars movies do reflect the biases, prejudices, views, etc., of the filmmakers.
  12. The_Chibi_Kiriyama Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2005
    star 1
    It's easy for those not affected directly by racism to simply dismiss it all, and say, oh, don't acknowledge it. Simply ignoring it, and not acknowledging doesn't make it go away. but, again, it's easy if you're not affected by racism directly to simply try to wave it away, like one may cigarette smoke.

    I like the way you automatically stereotype me as a buffoon who doesn't know how it is to be discriminated against. I HAVE been directly affected by racism in many ways. Many people are. But if you let the racist message propogate wantonly you only give into the hate by combating it. You play straight into their hands, and the next generation continues to fight the same race war we started. Whatever happened to loving our neighbors no matter how ignorant they are? Unless it leads to assault, turn the cheek and rise to the occasion by putting yourself above it.

    Now, if you're saying well, people shouldn't turning over every stone trying to look for it in a movie when it's not really there in major doses, that's one thing.

    That's exactly what I said. Nicely encompassed.

    Seems like there's two arguments going on here. one is about racism in the world, and one is about racism in Star Wars movies, and there's also the overlap between the two.

    This thread is named "Racism in ROTS". I feel it natural to talk about racist remarks or hints in Revenge of the Sith and that particular film only. Expanding the thread beyond it's purpose eventually leads to it being put in another forum or being shut down entirely.

    Racism does exist, BUT whether one sees racism/racial prejudice in the movies is dependent upon the individual's world views, experiences, learnings, and perspectives.

    If I can argue over which baseball team is better with a friend, I can definitely find something someone can construe as racism in ROTS. If you want to find a hidden meaning in something you'll probably find it in one form of the other. I use the sports argument as a metaphor for this. Arguing over what team is better is a matter of perception, and I may see a loss on part of my neighbor's team less positively than a win for my team would be interpreted by him. Again, a matter of how the rose-colored glasses that is our free will tends to see things.

    If you choose to see
    I do see racist elements in the Star Wars, and just as much, I see such elements in many movies.
    I've seen worse than what's in Star Wars, but, like any movie, the Star Wars movies do reflect the biases, prejudices, views, etc., of the filmmakers.


    Like I said, you can find at least one major flaw or crack in the most beautiful of diamonds. I'm not a Lucas gusher, and I've talked time and time again about the curious choice of dialect for Jar-Jar Binks, Watto and the Neimodians. But he did not do it with intention of making groundbreaking and disguised racial stereotypes about any ethnicity. It was a poor choice. In film the only difference from poor choices in real life is that it has frays on the edges and has to pass the test of time and circumstance. So let's all just enjoy the film and stop, as you phrase so eloquently, 'turning over every stone trying to look for it (racism) in a movie when it's not really there'.
  13. KILLER-CLONE Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 28, 2005
    star 1
    Yeah, Anakin's a racist because he chose to confide in a little green alien rather than a bad-ass black dude.

    *******WARNING*********

    BOTTOM OF BARREL SCRAPING OCCURING....MOVE ALONG, NOTHING TO SEE HERE

  14. DarthShaun Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2004
    star 1
    Yeah Leia did call Chewie a "walking carpet" but notice once they get off the death star and destroy those Ties, she is hugging that "walking carpet.
    Personally I believe this most stupid topic I seen on here. I have never really noticed racism on SW till I read this. But I must admit that I have heard people say plenty of things in Star Wars are racist or prejudiced. I'm a black person so I don't see anything wrong with Star Wars. There are certain stereotypes black people do use within their own circles about it. I remember that in ROTJ many of my friends who were African American thought Boba Fett was a black person. That all changed with AOTC. I never thought he was. Boba Fett could have been anything under that mask and personally I really didn't care. But some were shocked like my cousin. He said that all this time he was "mexican". I thought that was soooo wrong. He said he didn't said to be racist. He just bought into that stereotype with black people. That's the big problem. The stereotypes. But some of the stereotypes can be true but not apply to everyone. Take a show like The Boondocks for instance which blantly shows the stereotypes of black people and makes fun of it. This was written by an Afican American to show the stupidity of labeling. The show will actually admit how many African Americans act but just because some do doesn't mean all do. I never associate Star Wars with the real world cause it's a movie. I believe the real world could learn something from it cause Star Wars doesn't use labels. Some people I know think the scene in ROTS with Mace, Anakin, and Palpatine represents how the "white" man always puts the black man down. It's kinda a funny concept but certainly not true. Anakin cuts off Mace's hand to prevent him from killing Palpatine so he could get the power to save Padme. Not because he is a racist. Sidious kills him cause....well...he doesn't like the Jedi and wants them all destroyed. There is no bias there. I notice some tension between Mace and Anakin but
  15. KILLER-CLONE Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 28, 2005
    star 1
    I wouldn't say it's the stupidest. But it's certainly in the top 3.

    I'm surprised this thread has been endorsed by the mods as evidenced by their participation in it.
    Surely it's a breach of the TOS as it has the potential to incite unpleasantness.

    You gotta love it: you call someone a moronic *-wit and they ban you, but it's fine to start a thread on racism and how it manifests.

    Edit: The "f" has to be starred out.
  16. DT421 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2003
    star 5
    Oh, I don't know. It is right there with the Yoda farting in ROTS thread... for those of us that remember that one. :p
  17. KILLER-CLONE Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 28, 2005
    star 1
    Yeah that Top 3 is sure crowded.
  18. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6
    Why isn't it fine to have a serious conversation about racism? Do I personally believe the idea has merit? Not at all. However, if others can discuss it in a calm and intellectual manner then why stop it? There is nothing in the TOS that disapproves of this, different people find different topics unpleasant, it happens. The Senate functions in exactly that way and doesn't always have to be the only place for mature topics like this. As long as people are civil, we do not try and stifle creative debate. If you don't like it, you don't have to post here.
  19. KILLER-CLONE Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 28, 2005
    star 1
    Serious conversation? Would this be the same conversation in which you refer to yourself as a big mofo? And someone else claimed Temuera Morrison was an Arab? Man, if that's not a pig-ignorant racist comment, I dunno what is.

    I've seen more serious conversations on Big Brother.
  20. Cryogenic Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 5
    Aliens and droids are conspicious by their absence in the "Galactic Empire" of the tail-end of Episode III and Episodes IV, V and VI. I think it may have been a purely subconscious aesthetic decision on Lucas' part to begin with, but as time wore on, he consciously saw what he'd done and decided to stick with it. But whatever the case, it's there, and considering the paradigm is never broken over the course of four films made over a period of almost thirty years, it has to have become deliberate at some point. It's another example of Lucas' astuteness and compassionate, liberalistic concern for humanity. How so? Go back to Episode I and compare the state of play there, when the Empire is at its most distant, to Episodes IV and V, when the Empire is at its most powerful and is virtually omnipresent. The theme of symbiosis pervades Episode I at a number of levels: the parts where it is most obvious (in the dialogue at two points: with respect to the "symbiont circle" between the Gungans and the Naboo and the symbiotic relationship between life forms and midi-chlorians) are NOT the only parts it is present. In fact, the ENTIRE SAGA is begun by a fracturing of symbiosis: when trade, by definition, a mutually-beneficial exchange of entities between parties, is halted and an aggressive invasion/blockade is mounted. At the core of Palpatine's actions - his modus operandi - is his ability to divide and conquer: to pit the Trade Federation against the Naboo, to pit Padme against Valorum, to pit Anakin against the Jedi, to insinuate the Jedi are against him and want control of the Republic, and perhaps most insidiously of all, to pit father against son and son against father. Palpatine is a vessel of pure hate and evil: he wants everything divided, subverted and conquered. By contrast, George Lucas is a man at the opposite end of the spectrum: a man who sees that society should help people and that people should help society. And THIS is a man who is racist? I think some people need to hand over their car keys, go back to kindergarten and start all over again.
  21. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    Don't like it, post somewhere else. I admit that some people tend to get too personal and they shouldn't do so. But we're not going to close this thread just because a few feathers are ruffled. You have options. Pick one instead of complaining.
  22. lorn_zahl Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2002
    star 4
    I think it's quite simple. If you think there is racism in Star Wars then you are a racist yourself.

    It'd be funny if there wasn't so much racism in society, I wonder when people will just drop it and become color blind?


    I couldn't have said it better myself, become color blind.
  23. TheReturnofKardarl Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2006
    This is ridiculous. Racism in Star Wars? Thats just weak. Thats like saying Mickey Mouse worships Satan. Don't you have something more productive to do? How did this topic ever get created, and why hasn't it been locked along time ago. THERE IS NO RACISM IN STAR WARS. Deal with it. I can't stand it when someone uses the race card at every oppurtunity, ecspecially when there is no justification for the remark in the first place. And in the end what happens is that something innocent and pure such as Star Wars is subjected to this kind of crap. Get a life. Of all the topics people could be discussing, why:mad: is it this one? There is absolutley no reason for this. It's just awaste of everyone's time when we could be talking about something else. I suggest whoever started this should take there lame crusade to some other forum. Racism does not exist in Star Wars, period. End of discussion. Maybe if we all stop talking about it, this thread will die. No reason to keep beating a dead horse.
  24. MystikalMaceWindu Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2005
    star 3
    RACISM is a waste of time. And it's just too bad that societies and people around the world choose to be racist, choose to hold onto their ignorance, and remain ignorant.
    I sense most, if not all, the people here who are so quick to dismiss the possibility of racism existing in Star Wars are also likely to be dismissing, ignoring and denying racism in reality.
  25. TheReturnofKardarl Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2006
    Wrong answer. Because I believe absolutley no racism exists in the Star Wars films, does not mean that I automatically deny it's existence elsewhere. Yes, in our ugly reality it goes on. I take no part in it, nor do I approve of it. There are two sides to everything. There are the arogant pig headed people who are racist. They offend people of different racists other than their own. On the other hand, there are also people who use racism as an excuse. I have met and seen people who put no effort into anything, and then blame racism for their own failures. They do this to "get by" By saying that because I quickly brush off the idea of racism existing in Star Wars assumes I brush it off or deny it elsewhere? That, is truly an arrogant statement. You don't know me. Statements such as that don't solve any of these problems, they only lead to aggravation. Never judge a book by it's cover. I'm 30 years old and have been watching Star Wars my entire life, so no, I don't think it ever existed in these films. Perhaps you are trying to "create" this controversy, where most people feel it doesn't exist (at least in these films) Maybe you found these forums and decided it was a place to lay your egg. And what has it caused? More controversy. I would like to think that the majority of Star Wars fans agree. There are thousands of topics open for discussion. Why is this even an issue? No longer will I waste my time on this topic. All it is doing added fuel to your fire. I give you some advice. Do not judge people you do not know. Do not assume I am a racist or that I condone it. What you are doing is planting a seed in hopes that it will grow and spread. All it has done thus far is cause trouble. I've seen redundant threads get locked within 10 minutes. Why? Because they offered nothing to the forums, much like your thread.
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