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Racism in ROTS

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by sushimilk, Jan 15, 2006.

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  1. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Jul 20, 2005
    Three points:

    1. MystikalMaceWindu was wrong to insinuate that you harbour racist views, or downplay/overlook racial issues, in real life.

    2. MystikalMaceWindu did not start this thread.

    3. The issue of racism in any work of fiction - while perhaps spurious and contentious in various ways and on various occasions (dependent upon the work in question) - is still, in my opinion, one worthy of consideration and exploration. While I sympathise - and to a certain extent, agree - with your opinion, your black and white dismissal (excuse the pun) of the subject and chiding of people who have chosen to engage it ("Deal with it"; "Get a life"; "this kind of crap") is tactless and unfair. There are ways and means of stating you completely disapprove of a topic without sounding like a contemptible @ss.
  2. Get_in_Gear

    Get_in_Gear Jedi Youngling star 5

    Nov 29, 2004
    Although I stand by my comments on the first page of this thread, another aspect of all of this fascinates me.

    Anakin choosing to seek the counsel of the head Jedi is supposed to be indicative of some racist agenda?
    We have a galaxy far, far away, where there is not only a mix of numerous creeds and colours, but also a multitude of fantastic and wonderful non-human forms.
    How can race possibly be an issue in this instance?
    Yoda is an example of one of those wonderful forms, from an unknown planet.
    Mace is a humanoid from Haruun Kal.

    If Anakin had a choice between a bright pink Yoda and a green one, and he actually said: "I hate those damn dirty bright pink ones. I don't want to associate myself with them.", then there may be a case for some racist tract being the point of the scene.
    But Anakin chooses to seek one species' advice becuase... whew, let's work this one out here... he is the head guy who people routinely go to see with their problems after exhausting all other avenues. Because it is of more narrative importance that Yoda be the one who deals with this.
    If anything, Anakin is being speciesist by overlooking his Master, Obi-Wan, in favour of Yoda.
    Mace is not really a factor in this.

    You just can't win.
    Any action Mace is given - he is presumed it has been given such action to tarnish his reputation and bring him down... as part of some racist agenda.
    Everytime anyone but Mace does something - it is because Mace has been "overlooked"... as part of some racist agenda.

    It's a strange way of looking at things, to be sure...
  3. TheReturnofKardarl

    TheReturnofKardarl Jedi Youngling

    Jan 19, 2006
  4. DT421

    DT421 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Nov 6, 2003
    And we all know why Leia had a ?bad feeling? about Lando and didn't trust him. Stereotypes and ignorance. But I digress. This is ROTS specific.

    I agree with GiG, BTW. :)
  5. Andy_Fett

    Andy_Fett Jedi Youngling star 1

    Sep 14, 2005
    Silence Knave!
  6. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jun 28, 2001
    Okay, if someone has issues with this thread, they have options. You can either post in a civil manner. You can ignore this thread and post elsewhere. Coming in here to demand that this thread be shut down, is not one of them. Anymore of that and you will be in trouble, as it is considered trolling. If you cannot contribute something to the discussion, then don't give us your opinion that this needs to be shut down. If you have issue with it, talk to the mods in private.
  7. SithStarSlayer

    SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Oct 23, 2003

    "Leave it to GIG to stay away for a few days, then pop back in just to drop a big fat bomb on me..."

    You used a sledgehammer to drive home a nail, Get_In_gear.

    All with one simple word, [i]speciesist[/i].

    Then this thread could have been named "Anti-specism in ROTS".[/b] >
  8. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Aug 22, 1999
    Unsubstantiated, baseless accusation.
  9. MystikalMaceWindu

    MystikalMaceWindu Jedi Youngling star 3

    Feb 18, 2005
    There's really no such as a wrong answer here. Because we're talking about personal interpretation. The view that there is no racism in Star Wars is your opinion. And that's fine. why speak with such finality? there are many people with different views, on Star Wars, on other topics.
    And whether your views on racism in Star Wars do or do not extend to social reality, my point was that there are people whose views on racism, whether in Star Wars or otherwise, do indeed reflect their views on racism in society. I was not intending to single YOU out, but rather make points about many people I have met over the years.
    Sure, just because someone doesn't see racism in Star Wars, that doesn't automatically mean they deny it in society. I was trying to say that people who are racist aren't likely to see racism in Star Wars, because they don't even view themselves as being racist.
    And, moving on to the next point, I DID NOT start this thread. Funny that you're so quick to accuse me of such. Why did you think that I started it? What made you jump to that conclusion? There's nothing to support your question.
    And racism is much the same.... people jump to conclusions, based on misinformation, ignorance, etc. etc.
    I stick by my claim. RACISM is a waste of time. Discussing it, is not.
    I support what Cryogenic. Simply shooting down other people's opinions/views with a dismissive "Get over it" doesn't push the thread any further. People view things differently. And posts/threads, hopefully push us to try to understand the other person's views, and address the points they make, in a healthy bit of discussion.

    KILLER-CLONE Jedi Youngling star 1

    Sep 28, 2005
    Actually, there ARE right and wrong answers here.

    If GL has said there's no racism in Star Wars then there is no racism in Star Wars. GL has no history of racist behaviour. It's his story and his film so if he says its not there then its not there.

    If people choose to see racist elements within Star Wars then that says more about them than it does the films. Because THEY'RE the ones who compartmentalise the World in terms of race.

    So you've got it straight from George's mouth: No Racism.

    The End

  11. Andy_Fett

    Andy_Fett Jedi Youngling star 1

    Sep 14, 2005
    Racism. Pft, you knaves.

    Mace Windu died. Did not most of the Jedi? Was it racist that only a white Jedi and a little green Jedi survived the purge out of the main characters? I'm sure you were upset when the blue **** Aayla died becuase she wore next to nothing.

    Check out Mace, he was of African decent, being "black." When he died, "RACISM!!!" was shouted, but when someone like the dark lord Darth Maul who was Jet Black got murdered clear in to two pieces by a padawan, that was not racism.

    Edit: Gotta star that out.
  12. The_Chibi_Kiriyama

    The_Chibi_Kiriyama Jedi Youngling star 1

    Nov 9, 2005
    You gotta love it: you call someone a moronic *-wit and they ban you, but it's fine to start a thread on racism and how it manifests.

    If I could applaud you anymore, sir, my hands would go numb. Sense and sensibility is becoming a waning force here.

    There is nothing in the TOS that disapproves of this, different people find different topics unpleasant, it happens. The Senate functions in exactly that way and doesn't always have to be the only place for mature topics like this. As long as people are civil, we do not try and stifle creative debate. If you don't like it, you don't have to post here.

    But the TOS does tell you to avoid "posts, nicknames or other material deemed offensive, harassing, baiting or otherwise inappropriate". And this is not the Senate. The Senate discusses social topics. If the guy posted this there I'd be fine with it. But as a person who frequents these boards I feel that I have the right to speak up when others trounce this board with obscene insinuations.

    How is that racism? It's called being smart. Yoda is more understanding than 5 Mace's put together. And the friction between Mace and Anakin has nothing to do with race...We are all aware of what it had to do with so it would be pointless to repeat it. Going to Mace after the discovery of Sidious was also common sense. Mace takes more action than Yoda...Jedi were being killed and Yoda was still talking calmy with Bail and Obi-Wan...I'm not saying Yoda should have been freaking out, but COME ON. It doesn't take 5 minutes to make that sort of decision.

    Even anakin_luver can see things sensibly. When, in the entire saga, does Mace offer Anakin anything but cold and condescending remarks? Whereas Yoda can see how Windu simply wants to help the Republic he almost never shows that side to Anakin. When it came down to it the guy couldn't even stick by his vaunted principles. Racism didn't kill Mace Windu, a lack of friendliness and rash decision did.

    Anakin didn't like Mace because he bent over backwards to make Mace like him and approve of him, but he never did. And he still felt sadness over Mace's death. Mace wouldn't have cared less if Anakin croaked. Doesn't that make Mace a 'racist'?

    A thorough capsulation of a good argument. The kid goes to him first to help him in his troubles, and when it came down to it Windu referred to Anakin more like a child or a powerful tool than he did a person. It's only natural that Anakin defended the only person he felt could help him to save Padme. There was no remorse because Windu never gave Anakin a reason to shed tears. It's not racism! And to the naysayers: why is it that Mace Windu is the whipping post for all negativity towards this film? Oh yeah, because Jackson is black. Wait a sec! A dose of common sense is coming! Isn't manipulation of a person for their color for the purpose of advancing propoganda yet another form of racism upon itself?!

    It'd be funny if there wasn't so much racism in society, I wonder when people will just drop it and become color blind?

    Because not forgetting gives some people yet another scapegoat to remind us all about their personal failures, misgivings and whatnot. Color-blindness can never happen if people refuse to stop entertaining the thought of personal preference out of mind and body. And that, unfortunately, is not going to happen soon.

    This is ridiculous. Racism in Star Wars? Thats just weak. Thats like saying Mickey Mouse worships Satan. Don't you have something more productive to do? How did this topic ever get created, and why hasn't it been locked along time ago. THERE IS NO RACISM IN STAR WARS. Deal with it. I can't stand it when someone uses the race card at every oppurtunity, ecspecially when there is no justification for the remark in the first place. And in the end what happens is that something innocent and pure such as Star Wars is subjected to this kind of crap. Get a life. Of all the topics people could be discussing, why is it this one? There is absolu

    KILLER-CLONE Jedi Youngling star 1

    Sep 28, 2005
    Glad I made sense to at least one person.
  14. RamRed

    RamRed Jedi Master star 4

    May 16, 2002
    I dont want to make this a black or white issue, but let just state that if you look at the obvious, in no way did anakin seem to respect mace.

    Of course Anakin respected Mace Windu. He just loved Padme more and would have sacrificed anyone - including Obi-Wan - for her.

    How is that racism? It's called being smart. Yoda is more understanding than 5 Mace's put together.

    Where on earth did you get that idea? Yoda struck me as being no more or less understanding than Mace.

    KILLER-CLONE Jedi Youngling star 1

    Sep 28, 2005
    That has got to be one of the most banal, ridiculous and blatently illogical comments I've ever read.

    I don't see racism in Star Wars therefor I'm a racist?

    Because I DIDN'T look at Jar Jar and think "Hey, a characature of a West Indian!" I'm a racist?

    Because when Mace died I thought "Yeah, Sidious is a bad-ass" and NOT "Yeah, die black dude!" I'm a racist?

    Because I look at Imperial Officers as Imperial Officers and NOT as a bunch of British bastards, I'm a racist?

    I really think you need to expand on your comments because I for one am looking forward to more of your views.
  16. JMN77

    JMN77 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Sep 19, 2005
    =D= here, here!

    KILLER-CLONE Jedi Youngling star 1

    Sep 28, 2005
  18. lorn_zahl

    lorn_zahl Jedi Master star 4

    Oct 19, 2002
    Oh wow dude, yeah I guess everyone is racist. Why don't you back up your assertions? Because they are rediculous and it seems that you are the one with RACE on his/her mind.

    It's just that. I find it quite ironic that most of the 'crusaders against racism' in this country are really racist themselves.

    In effect, many of them are worse than the KKK... at least the clan is honest about being a bunch of racist morons.

    Absolutely correct and I'm pleased by the fact that most people in this thread agree with this assertion.

  19. rhonderoo

    rhonderoo Former Head Admin star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Aug 7, 2002
    Let's watch the language in here. And let's quit baiting each other. Discuss this civilly or I'll lock, and deal with those of you can't respectfully discuss this. It's all opinions and perceptions, remember.
  20. thechozn1

    thechozn1 Jedi Master star 4

    May 15, 2005
    I just can't go along with the idea that there is racism in ROTS. The main thing people are going to point to is Mace. C'mon... did anyone really expect him to live? Of course not. Not only that but GL let him have his way on several issues.
  21. yoshifett

    yoshifett Jedi Knight star 5

    Apr 17, 2004
    In ROTS, no. How about in "Do the Right Thing?" Were there sci-fi saber battles in that one?
    I think that, as Freud said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. People tend to see what they want to see.
  22. SithStarSlayer

    SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Oct 23, 2003
    =D= Listen to Yoshifett, you must!! =D=

    From the Dictionary:


    1.) "The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others."


  23. Greedo_forever

    Greedo_forever Jedi Youngling star 3

    May 24, 2005
    I agree. Its the same with some forms of sexism in film and other media. Sometimes people just have a big chip on their shoulder and they need to confront others about it. SOME people just need this kind of conflict.

    Although I dissagree with a lot of the flaming going on in this thread, some people ARE asking for it, due to the wording they choose to express themselves. Like the one that said if someone doesn't see racism in a film, THEY are most likely a racist and don't know it... that kind of statement is BOUND to attract anger.

    But the concept IS something to think about.
  24. yoshifett

    yoshifett Jedi Knight star 5

    Apr 17, 2004
    Thanks! And actually, if we're talking about Mace here, he turns out to be a superior duelist. Better than all the white duelists. He puts the Emperor down. (Before that punk Anakin betrays him) So, does that mean Lucas is trying to say that to be a great duelist you must be black? Riiiiiiiight.

    People read way too much in to movies that are set in the realm of fantasy and don't have anything to do with race. It certainly wasn't Lucas' intent, and if you see it there, you're looking too hard. (Understandable for Star Wars Fans though :) )
  25. SithStarSlayer

    SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Oct 23, 2003

    People read way too much in to movies that are set in the realm of fantasy and don't have anything to do with race. It certainly wasn't Lucas' intent, and if you see it there, you're looking too hard.

    [face_applause] Another excellent point, Master YoshiFett.


    [b]If you didn't know [color=blue]WHO[/color] was getting fried in this pic, what would you think? [/b]


    [b]If you are like me, then it's just another [color=blue]Jedi[/color] getting [i]"pwned"[/i] by the [color=darkred]Sith[/color] in Episode III!![/b] >
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