Racism wrong, Homophobia acceptable?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Lord Bane, Jul 15, 2002.

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  1. Lord Bane Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 26, 1999
    star 5
    (As written by CarbonKnight)

    In society there is an unfortunate belief that judging someone on their race is completely wrong (ie, racism) whereas the judging of someone's character based on their sexual orientation (and the resulting Homophobia) is tolerable... a sad double standard in today's society.


    Do you also see this idea prevalent in society? Are different regions of the world more or less tolerable than others? Discuss. />
  2. Jedi_Xen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 4
    I think most straight males are at least a little homophobic.

    I've been hit on twice by two men, if they just accept im not gay its ok. But one of them had to make a scene, so that doesnt help me not being homophobic. But Im ok with gay people, as long as they realize Im not.
  3. yodafett999 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2000
    star 4
    I've always thought that the reason I've seen people treat sexual orientation as something different than race or religion is that many people, right or wrong, still look at it as something that you have control over and make an active choice in.

    People can change their religion, it's done every day, but most people stick with the religion that their parents were or that they were raised. So they look at it as being born into it.

    Personally I find homophobia, even in small doses, quite sad. Of course I subscribe to the Dennis Miller school of discrimination:

    "Why would you hate anyone because of their sex, race, religion, or gender when, if you just take the time to get to know them, you can find so many more reasons to dislike them."

  4. Dathka Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2002
    star 1
    I may be sounding like a prude now but you also have to make the distinction between flagrant sexuallity and just being gay.

    This point gets brushed away as trivial time and time again but it should really be addressed head-on and not be skirted if we are ever to live peacefully together as a people.

    I have gay neighbors and I have no problem at all with them. They are some of the nicest and most helpful guys in the neighborhood. But they don't advertise the fact that they are gay. They don't hide it but they don't let it define them.
    If you tell me your sexual orientation before your name I probably don't want to know you.
  5. CarbonKnight Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2002
    star 4
    The title of this thread should have been - Rac ism wrong, Homophobia Acceptable?

    Stupid Cyber Sitter computer.... I can't even make a political example of Hit ler or Man son without it being blocked out.
  6. Vaderbait Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 6
    Anything where you fear or judge another race/choice is wrong. However, disapproval isn't. Also, it's fine to judge someone's character, and that isn't a set standard.
  7. Jarik Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 2000
    star 4
    Obviously people are discriminatory, but I don't care if someone's gay...as long as they don't try to hit on me.
  8. Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 1999
    star 5
    Homophobia is simply 'racism' about sexual orientation.

    Oftentimes people take homophobia to extremes, like gay priests will molest children, etc.

    Homophobia is stupid, gay individuals are not mad rapers out to get every straight man they find attractive.

    V-03
  9. JediLord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2000
    star 4
    Even they hit on me, i don't care aslong as they stop once they realize I am not gay. People are homophobic b/c they are uncomfortable around it. It is a personal problem that they need to deal with.
  10. QueenDorme Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 3
    "But one of them had to make a scene, so that doesnt help me not being homophobic."

    That's just an excuse to discriminate. If an ugly women hit on you, would you suddenly become heterophobic?

    If a gay guy hit on you and wouldn't go away, then he is just an idiot - its personality, not sexual orientation.

  11. Darth_Omega Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    I don't mind homosexuals they're cool.

    I also live in the country where homosexuals can legally marry [face_plain]

    IMO I think most people hate homosexuals because of their religon..

    And if someone tries to hit on me I'll just say the following thing:

    "I'm very flattered that you think I'm attractive, but I'm not gay"
  12. TheBoogieMan Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2001
    star 6
    I think that being Homophobic is just as bad as being rascist.

    homosexual people cannot change the fact that they are gay, just as people of other races cannot change the fact that they are of other races.
  13. TeeBee Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 3
    homosexual people cannot change the fact that they are gay

    I don't believe this is entirely true of all homosexuals. I've heard of instances otherwise. Also, two homosexual women I have known claim to have become gay because of abuse by a male relative as a child. If this is the case, then it is logical that if they chose to become straight again, with the correct therapy, they could. They simply choose not to.

    Personally, I don't have a problem with homosexuals until they start "putting their bedroom on the front porch", so to speak. This seems particularly to be a nauseating trend among celebrities. Rosie comes to mind here... She's annoying enough without constantly defining herself and everything she stands for by her gayness. I hope her 15 minutes are up soon.
  14. AJA Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 1998
    star 4
    I'm sorry to offend those of you here who are politically correct on this matter, but I do not believe sexual behavior and race are the same thing, and I do not believe people are born homosexual. If you believe that, you must also believe that those who engage in other sexual acts which we consider to be unacceptable are also "born that way", which logically invalidates our right to condemn child molestation, bestiality, or any other sexual behavior. And of course, there are already movements afoot to assert precisely those claims. This is what happened in ancient Rome before it fell- incest, bestiality, and child molestation were common and accepted among the elite classes, and as they fiddled away, the Germans came down and tore them to shreds.

    Having said that, it's a free country, and what two consenting adults do behind closed doors is their business. Just don't tell me what to think about it, or slap me with some contrived label in an attempt to intimidate me into accepting something which I can't in conscience accept.

    P.S.

    I've also read the statements of some lesbians who freely admit they chose their lifestyle as a manifestation of feminist beliefs- "men are the enemy", and thus they can't rationally have anything to do with men.
  15. darth daedelus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 14, 1999
    star 1
    Equating homosexuality with child molestation is totally wrong. If someone makes a lifestyle choice (whether naturally determined or otherwise) which causes no harm to other people then they should not be judged on it, denied opportunities or made to feel bad because of their particular preferences.

    One issue which this interrelating of race and sexuality brings up is that some of the minority groups who are the targets of racism are themselves from cultures which are strongly prejudiced against homosexuality.
  16. DarthPhelps Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2002
    star 5
    I've been hit on twice by two men...Jedi_Xen, you must be quite the stud to be approached in two instances by a pair of men. ;)

    Of my own opinion, I won't go into any great detail now but I will say that the following has always bothered me:
    Equating a 'moral' or behavioral action with such things as skin color, or a person's sex (Male/Female).


    Another complaint about bringing up child molesters. Hmmm. I've seen that once before on the boards about a couple of months ago.
    Years ago homosexuality was seen as immoral by the majority. It is transitioning into acceptance today for most.
    I am willing to bet that before I die I will see news articles about the civil liberties and freedoms for the rights of pedophiles to freely excercise their sexual preference. They're born that way, aren't they? What we perceive to be harm done to the children will likely be dismissed by respected psychologists. Just wait. It seems implausible now, but I bet it will happen.
  17. shds Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2000
    star 2
    Homosexuality is not a natural thing to be associated with and it is inherent in human nature to be disgusted by it. Therefore, I consider "homophobia" (Def: "Contempt for homosexuals") to be perfectly acceptable. It is comparable to people hating murderers, pedophiles and the like.
  18. tenorjedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2000
    star 5
    dd AJA wasn't comparing the ethics of the two I don't believe, but rather stating that if sexual orientation is genetic, then all forms of sexual persuasion would be genetic under the same reasoning. Of course there's a ethical difference between two consenting adults and molesting children, or beastiality.
  19. Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 1999
    star 5
    shds-

    It's the same as hating murderers, pedophiles and the like

    I hope not. Two consenting adults engaging in a sexual act, whatever their gender, is quite different from one person harming another against their will. If you have a problem with homosexuals and feel uncomfortable around them, that is your business, but don't lump them into the same category as those who deliberately harm others when attempting to justify how you feel.

    V-03
  20. DarthPhelps Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2002
    star 5
    Def: "Contempt for homosexuals", regarding the def of "homophobia".

    I was also going to comment on my perception of the overuse of the term homophobia also, because I had certain views on the term "phobia", that may have been incorrect. I used to think that 'phobia' meant to fear something (such as acrophobia [heights] or arachniphobia[spiders]), but as I typed my last post I looked up the term 'phobia' in my little dictionary, and it included in definition #2 "a strong dislike or aversion". Definition #2 for "-phobic" suff. is "Lacking an affinity for"

    FYI
  21. darth daedelus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 14, 1999
    star 1
    tenorjedi - yes you're right, I misunderstood the point to a certain extent but I believe there was an implicit equation of different kinds of child molestation and homosexuality, if you accept (which I do not) AJA's argument that if we say homosexuality is natural, then we must also say child molestation is natural i.e. logically they are of the same kind, which I absolutely reject.

    To my mind, the argument over what is natural is, on both sides, a futile one. After all, there is nothing natural about many things humans do - there is nothing particualrly natural about having a conversation over several continents, as we are doing now. At the same time, saying a certain behaviour is natural does not legitimate it - many laws and social insitutions are set up to restrain natural tendencies. In the final event, it does not matter whether homosexuality is natural or not. What matters is that our societies learn to deal with behaviours, lifestyles, choices and cultures which deviate from the norm. In my view, a tolerant society is a healthy one, and despite prejudice against race and sexuality, the targets of such abuse have made an important, in some cases overwhelming contribution to Western culture, including Star Wars (Alec Guinness).
  22. Vaderbait Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 6
    Well, I'm not real sure about the actual definition of homophobic, for instance, this is my situation:

    I find the lifestyle of gays disgusting. I feel uncomfortable around gays.

    HOWEVER, I do not have any desire to harm them, isolate them, etc. I don't treat them like garbage or anything like that.

    So if homophobic is merely being uncomfortable, then I am homophobic, and I don't see how that can be wrong.

    But if being homophobic means you're uncomfortable with them, angry with them, whatever, and want to take it farther than that, then it is wrong.
  23. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    Actually there have been studies done that have shown that homosexual men have on region of the brain(th ehypothalamus i think, but i could look it up) that is smaller that of straight men. Besides that i really find it hard to believe that someone will one day decide: "hmmm you know what, i think i would like to become a homosexual and alienate many of my friends and be discriminated against in society".

    Who would want to make it so hard on themselves. every gay person i have ver known strongly believes that they were born gay and that there was nothing they can do about it. you can even tell that some kids are going to grow up and be gay. It is a genetic thing, i dont really know why some people dont want to admit that.
  24. tenorjedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2000
    star 5
    Some people subconsciously make life more difficult for themselves. And again the reason we (I at least) don't accept that it's genetic is the lack of proof. There is not enough evidence to show that it is genetic. The human genome project will find the answer either way. Find the gene, then we'll talk, but till that time they don't have proof.
  25. EnforcerSG Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2001
    star 4
    As long as they are not hurting others, I have no problem with people who are gay. If they have another problem in addition to being gay, then there is a problem, but most people who are honosexual are fine decent people.

    To me, there are several reasons a person becomes gay. One is that is may be somewhat natural. Men, think about this. Some men like women who are pencile thin, others like stronger women, some like blond hair, other black...you get the idea. Just take that idea to the extream. Maybe some men find other men simply more attractive than most women.

    Or it may be genitic, but i wont say so till some proof is made.

    Sometimes, people look for acceptance, and find it in another person of the same sex. Hey, it is a messed up world and you should take any honest love you can find.

    My roommate and I argued about this allot. His reasons were mostly religious in nature, but he also said that being gay spreads diseses and causes mutations in current illnesses and what not, and although he always held with that, other diseses spread just as fast through normal sex as well.
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