Racism wrong, Homophobia acceptable?

With them-- its fine to accept gays, but not to have one in the family.

And this is true of racism sometimes too - other races are just fine, even as good friends, but not marrying into the family. Not an exact parallel, but ya know....

Stevo, I feel for you. It sounds like your parents weren't that great to begin with, even aside from any issues of sexual orientation or whatever. I suport you in your choice not to talk to them -my father just can't refrain from trying to make me angry (dunno why, it's just one of his many headgames) so I finally thought, hey, why waste my energy keeping calm when he's trying to provoke me when I could just move and not tell him? LOL. But really, it's been the best solution, and though he probably wouldn't admit it, I'm sure it's a big relief to him too. He never liked the fact that I was actually a complete, separate human being from him.

LittleLadyVader, your mom also sounds difficult to deal with. I guess a lot of parents are guilty of forcing their kids to lie to them because it's what they want to hear, but it's a dirty trick all the same.

I had a thought about a way to look at orientation that I have never come across - if there's a shelf full of books about it somwehere, my apologies. Anyway, it goes like this. If we got more specific with orientation by taking into account types people are attracted to, the whole concept of orientation would change. For example, some people are almost exclusively attracted to blonds. But more interestingly, some people are attracted to people who will hurt them - dominators, users, abusers, cheaters.... they will choose these people over someone who really loves them. That's obviously some kind of neurosis, right? So how is that healthier than a lesbian who is attracted to women who truly love her? In my book, it's less healthy, because it's the quality of the relationship that affects you - not the specs of who you're having it with.

Does this make any sense? What I'm suggesting is that a girl who looks for men who will beat her has a much more unnatural and sick sexual orientation than a gay who seeks out loving men. OTOH, a gay who wants to be abused by men and a straight guy who wants to be abused by women are equally sick.

It's like, this way of thinking could start a whole new dialog.

 

Everything that TreeCave said. Werd.

When I hear about such parents, it makes me feel very fortunate to have the loving supportive parents that I do.

On the subject of specific attraction, I've discussed this exact concept with many of my friends; I've never seen a book about such a thing, which isn't to say that it doesn't exist, but either way it certainly merits some discussion on our part.

The psychology of why people are attracted to certain types seems to be brushed over as far as I can tell. I mentioned earlier about the studies done with twins and how identical twins, despite having the exact same genetic make-up and environment in which they are raised, tend to exhibit vastly different taste in partners. I've always been fascinated by this.

Personally, I have all sorts of strange attractions the likes of which I will never be able to explain to myself.

I always get these crushes on those little punkish lesbians, the ones who wear combat boots and look somewhat like feminine guys. I have no idea why this is - I think I just like androgyny.

I also have a weird passion for people who are really good at video games - I think it has something to do with the level of concentration involved. It's a huge turn on for me. For the same reason, I think, I also find scientists to be very sexy.

I'm also drawn to sadness (???) - if someone has a personality in which they are often somewhat depressed, but not really whiney, I find them to be very attractive; I find this odd because I'm a very happy person, myself.

 

Leviticus 18:22: "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a woman; that is an abomination." The Bible condemns homosexuality as a sin. The Bible was written from the view of men, so male homosexuality is condemned. Female homosexuality was probably not common back then, but it was condemned also by this statement.

I feel scared around gay guys. They are so nasty, and they talk nasty. Yuk! I have a few lesbian friends. They are okay, and they are not nasty. Lesbians seem to be more acceptible society. Lesbianism is not nasty, and gay guys are.

I don't look down on homosexuals. I simply don't agree with their orientations. But they can't help it. God loves them as much as he loves us.

 

Isaiah, you may want to read CwrnPuppet's earlier posts in this thread regarding Ruth.

 

Not all gay guys "talk nasty". I certainly don't. But, like you - I feel very uncomfortable around most gay guys: Annoying, aren't they?

 

Oh, and Isaiah - why exactly are you "scared" around gay guys? They are very very seldom violent. I don't get it.

 

I must say, I've never heard of interpreting the book of Ruth as an example of a gay relationship. It's held in high esteem among Jews as the reason one should be kind to and accept sincere converts, and an example to converts how much the strength of your conviction must be. Enough that you would be willing to leave your 'people'.

Interesting concept, the gay (or actually perhaps bi, as Ruth does take a man) relationship interpretation. It certainly doesn't take away from the convert story, just adds a different dimension. I'm always fascinated by the many ways the stories can be looked at.

 

Crwn, a lot of happy people are drawn to depressed people, but it rarely seems to work. I'm speaking as the depressed/sad one here.

You know, why doesn't anyone consider a man choosing to be "whipped" by his wife, or a woman choosing to be beaten by her husband an "immoral" or "unnatural" chosen lifestyle? Now, I promise you someone will come in now that I've mentioned it and say, "Oh, I do!" But it's a correction of hypocrisy after the fact.

I'm drawn to a variety of things in men. A variety of looks, although until recently they had to be at least as good-looking as I was (that was not healthy, and I knew it, and I'm grateful it's no longer the case for me). I'm attracted to decent guys with some sense of ethics, but I seem to attract "bad boys" who are sometimes nice and ethical in some ways, but always pretty neurotic. I can't figure it out, and this is why I never date - what I'm attracted to and what I attract are polar opposites. Decent ethical guys are always married by 20, I think, but even when they're not, they don't hit on me. I only get hit on by men who seem to want to be nice and ethical - and are in some ways - but can't seem to help being jerks, and end up feeling I'm too good for them anyway. Talk about "not getting off the ground". My plane's just sittin' on the runway.

 

Crwn, a lot of happy people are drawn to depressed people, but it rarely seems to work. I'm speaking as the depressed/sad one here.

It seems to work for me. My boyfriend is somewhat sullen, but what I learned from past relationships is not to try to cheer him up, to simply let him deal with it his way and to accept him as he is.

TreeCave, as for your problem witht he dichotomy between who you are attracted to and who is attracted to you, I share your pain. I tend to be attracted to dorks and intellectuals, but for the most part the people who are attracted to me are rather shallow. What does that say about me? *chuckles*

 

You know, why doesn't anyone consider a man choosing to be "whipped" by his wife, or a woman choosing to be beaten by her husband an "immoral" or "unnatural" chosen lifestyle?

Actually, I don't understand why it should be considered a 'lifestyle' at all, if it's merely a sexual technique preference and you'd never know these people enjoy such things if you met them on the street. Are people who like to use whipped creme or toys considered living a difference lifestyle than others? What goes on in the bedroom, to me, is not the epitome of a 'lifestyle', which is why I don't even like to call being gay a 'lifestyle'.

 

I certainly wouldn't call being gay a "lifestyle". My sexuality enters into very few aspects of my life. What - is there a gay way to do laundry? To go grocery shopping? To watch TV? To clean the cat litter?

 

To clean the cat litter?

If there is, I'd be curious to see this one and how it's so sinfully different than how I do it.

 

LOL!

Yes, you know how sinfully those gays pay their taxes, give to charity and so on - it's shameful!

 

Actually, I don't understand why it should be considered a 'lifestyle' at all, if it's merely a sexual technique preference and you'd never know these people enjoy such things if you met them on the street. Are people who like to use whipped creme or toys considered living a difference lifestyle than others? What goes on in the bedroom, to me, is not the epitome of a 'lifestyle', which is why I don't even like to call being gay a 'lifestyle'.

I agree with this completely. I also don't view people's sexuality as their "lifestyle", but I respect the views of those who do. HOWEVER, those who do are all hypocrites, in my experience. For example, if Jerry Falwell's morals are consistent rather than convenient, why don't we hear him blasting the "immoral lifestyle of bondage and S&M"? Surely it must strike him as "unnatural" or even "sinful" so why does it get by without comment, but a homosexual just trying to live his/her life and be left alone is worthy of a heated 2 hour discussion? And what is wrong with people's priorities that they would want to know what's going on in any other bedroom but their own?

And in case I wasn't clear before, what I'm suggesting is that heterosexual does not in my mind imply a healthy relationship, but it does to people who don't think these things through. Who hasn't seen dozens of het relationships they would rather die than participate in? People who play head games, abuse each other emotionally or physically, crave domination, crave being dominated.... ugh. If you had to listen to someone talk about their sex life, I know I'd rather hear it from a healthy gay couple than a sick het couple. And I'm suggesting that if anyone automatically prefers unhealthy het relationships to any gay relationships, that says more about them than about the people they're judging.

 

Perhaps I should have used a different word than scared. Gay guys disgust me. Some of them at my school talk nasty. Most of the gays at my school act like they have ADD or ADHD. I know other gays are probably nicer. I don't discriminate against them. Just the thought of male homosexuality...yuk!

Heterosexuality rules.

 

Can you please explain what you mean by "talk nasty"?

I understand if you are disgusted by "gay sex" and by that I assume that you mean anal sex. However, not every gay couple HAS anal sex and plenty of straight couples do. I think it's rather strange to not want to be around someone simply because of what you assume they do in the bedroom.

 

Most of the gays at my school act like they have ADD or ADHD.

And what's wrong with that?

 

I'm just trying to figure out where that came from.

 

Also, I'm puzzled by this "most of the gays at my school" bit. Just how many gays ARE at your school? I was the only one in mine that I knew of...

 

Anal copulation is practiced by many heterosexual couples as well, do you find that nasty? And as mentioned above, it's not even practiced by all homosexual couples (and I recall reading somewhere that it is not the dominant practice among male homosexuals).

What do you mean by talk "nasty"? Is talking like one has ADHD "nasty"? How does one with ADHD sound exactly?

 

*scratches head*

 

What - is there a gay way to do laundry? To go grocery shopping? To watch TV? To clean the cat litter?

What? You mean you weren't there when they offered Gay Trigonometry 101?

Gay laundry? hahahahahahahah! But seriously, folks... If there's a gay way to do laundry, I should learn it... anything to get me out of my current system... which consists of two piles: Dirty, and filthy.

That reminds me... CwrnPuppet maybe you can teach me gay checkbook balancing when you have the time. Then I could teach you how to walk straight... who am I kidding? I have Cerebral Palsy. I don't walk straight. Does that mean I'm gay? Oh, crap, I better start a collection of Barbra Streisand, Shirley Bassey and Liza Minnelli albums...

And remember, folks...

Only You Can Prevent Gay Forest Fires.

 

Edit:

Ay... If only I didn't have to remain impartial to some extent.

 

"but for the most part the people who are attracted to me are rather shallow. What does that say about me?"

It says you're a hottie

 

Darth_Snowdog:

Gay checkbook balancing? That's easy! I let my boyfriend, the human computer do it. Haven't had to use a calculator in three wonderful years.