Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981)

Discussion in 'Lucasfilm Ltd. In-Depth Discussion' started by Binary Sunset, Jan 18, 2015.

  1. Alexrd Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Sure, I'm the new guy...

    It has nothing to do with opinion. You said they did a terrible job when they actually did what they were supposed to do: to color time the movie the way the director wants it. A terrible job would be doing the opposite of that.

    How exactly is it dishonest?

    Your dictatorial preferences are irrelevant to what I'm arguing.
    Last edited by Alexrd, Aug 19, 2016
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  2. DrDre Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2015
    star 4
    Well, that's where we disagree. You are of the opinion, that it's absolutely fine, if a director supplants a film with a modernized version decades after it was first released. I believe a director should respect the cultural heritage, and release a director's cut next to the original work, if he feels, he wants to modernize or update his earlier work. I think it's a terrible decision to replace a piece of cultural heritage with an modernized work, hence I consider what was done a terribe job.

    When the alteration was criticised, Paramount released a statement, that the new color timing is closer to the original theatrical color timing than the earlier color timing, that was used for the 2003 DVD release, which also served as the basis for the very similar looking HDTV broadcasts. This statement is false, as the earlier color timing is much closer to the original color timing than the orange/teal color timing of the bluray. Hence, it's dishonest.
    Last edited by DrDre, Aug 19, 2016
  3. DrDre Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2015
    star 4
    Here is the same frame for the 2003/2008 DVD and the bluray. Both these restorations were supervised by Steven Spielberg. The difference is incredible.

    DVD:

    [IMG]

    Bluray:

    [IMG]

    I used an algorithm, I developed to match the bluray to the DVD, such that they can be directly compared:

    http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/182518
    Last edited by DrDre, Aug 26, 2016
  4. cxcfffxx Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2017
    I watch the movie for the first time. Amazing
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  5. JEDI-RISING Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2005
    star 5
    that's such a drastic difference [face_hypnotized]
  6. sarlaccsaurs-rex Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2007
    star 4
    I like when Toht tells the other Gestapo agent to "Shoot them, shoot them both", to both Indy and the Giant Sherpa. The other Nazi receiving the orders is even somewhat shocked by this, its subtle, but its a nice little bit of detail, then the Sherpa realizes and jerks his head real fast and helps Indy kill the other Nazi., at that point it confuses me why Indy and the mook continue fighting each other after Toht clearly betrays him. Toht's betrayal strikes me as a bit of greed, (Not wanting to pay the local thugs.), Nazi racism, with the thugs being Nepalese after all, and just Toht being a sociopath sadist in general. Toht is such a nasty, and creepy character, even the other villains seem to despise him most the time. His death is sooo satisfying. That being said, he's still one of my favorite film villains ever.
  7. Kenneth Morgan Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 27, 1999
    star 5
    Seeing as how the movie was released on this date in 1981...
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  8. AndyLGR Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2014
    star 4
    36 years old this week. A timeless film, I've lost track of the amount of times I've watched this.
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  9. AndyLGR Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2014
    star 4
    Raiders was ranked as number 7 in Empire magazines top 100 films:

    http://www.empireonline.com/movies/features/best-movies/

    Heres what they had to say about it:

    In ’81, it must have sounded like the ultimate pitch: the creator of Star Warsteams up with the director of Jaws to make a rip-roaring, Bond-style adventure starring the guy who played Han Solo, in which the bad guys are the evillest ever (the Nazis) and the MacGuffin is a big, gold box which unleashes the power of God. It still sounds like the ultimate pitch.

    And heres their full review:

    Renowned archeologist and expert in the occult, Dr. Indiana Jones, is hired by the U.S. Government to find the Ark of the Covenant, which is believed to still hold the ten commandments. Unfortunately, agents of Hitler are also after the Ark. Indy, and his ex-flame Marion, escape from various close scrapes in a quest that takes them from Nepal to Cairo.

    ★★★★★

    Tom Selleck was originally pencilled in to play Indiana Jones, don't you know. Of course you do. So, how about the fact that the name of the "obtainer of rare antiquities," actually first belonged to George Lucas' dog? Oh, that too? And herein lies our problem — Raiders Of The Lost Ark is so adored, so worshipped, that it has been analysed to death.

    In fact, even if it opened in the UK just one day after Charles and Di tied the knot, in the "Where were you when?" stakes, some would say there's no contest. And, yes, there is a multitude of treasures to be unearthed. The Star Wars-inspired registration of Jock's plane (OB-CPO); the hieroglyphics of R2-D2 and C-3PO in the Well Of Souls; and cameos by ILM's Dennis Muren (as a Gestapo agent) and producer Frank Marshall (a Nazi pilot). More significant, though, is Raiders' resonance. Initially perceived as a $20.8 million spin on the Saturday matinee serials ("I made it as a B-movie," said Spielberg), it would go on to gross $363 million (Paramount's biggest ever earner until 1994's Forrest Gump).

    It heralded a new dawn for the summer blockbuster; scooped four Oscars; elevated the dusty image of archaeology to the sexiest profession known to man and reinvigorated the hitherto lost art of whipping schoolmates' bare buttocks with rolled-up towels. "Why'd it have to be snakes?" is Indy's lament, but it might easily have been Karen Allen's. Cast after Spielberg and Amy Irving had split up and Debra Winger passed, Allen had to endure an experience that made Tippi Hedren's in The Birds seem like a walk in the park. Spielberg elicited more convincing screams by throwing live snakes at her head. Legend has it that many of the reptilian extras were never recaptured and still live in the dark recesses of Elstree Studios.

    But if the final result is one of the most exhilarating examples of action/adventure cinema — its pre-credit sequence, a glowing homage to ye olde Hollywoode, establishes a breakneck pace that can surely never be sustained, but is — this was not always on the cards. While the finished film arrived 11 days ahead of schedule, early on-set signals seemed ominous, with everyone bar the director taken ill on location in Tunisia. (It's rumoured that he avoided sickness by eating only the cans of Spaghetti-Os he'd packed). It was precisely this unfortunate disposition which resulted in a diarrhoea-striken Ford's suggestion to "Just shoot the ****er," in the now mythical Indy vs. Arab guard face-off, but it was also the latest turn in a growing line of mishaps. "Anything that promised serious injury or total disability, Harrison did," said Spielberg of Ford's insistence on carrying out as many of his own stunts as possible. An insistence which very nearly had fatal consequences when the German Flying Wing fight sequence went awry. "The crew's reaction was the normal one associated with having a film's star run over by an aeroplane when the movie is only half-completed," said Ford in hindsight. "I was a lot more careful after that."

    While Ford was perfect as the hell-for-leather, loveable rogue, the locations sumptuous, the special effects breathtaking and the cinematography dazzling, the real success of Raiders' lies in its conception. A product of the near-Holy trinity of Spielberg, George Lucas and Lawrence Kasdan, it is the collaboration that holds the key to the magic. Lucas' original brainchild (he pitched the idea to Spielberg in Hawaii, where he'd decamped to escape the critical mauling he feared awaited Star Wars), he provided the flair of the set pieces and the frenetic pacing. Add to that his harmonious working relationship with Spielberg — at one meeting Lucas snapped the wingstips off a model Flying Wing, reducing it from four to two engines and securing a reluctant compromise from Spielberg which saved some $250,000 — and his influence is clear.

    Kasdan, meanwhile, was the ideal choice as screenwriter. Fresh from co-writing duties on The Empire Strikes Back (1980), his screenplay was exceptional, lending essentially cartoon characters an extra dimension, whittling down an overlong script (scenes with a giant rolling gong and a mine-cart were cut and then re-employed for Temple Of Doom three years later) and easily covering for Lucas' Achilles Heel with his timeless dialogue. Third and most significant in the triumvirate is, of course, Spielberg. His ability to capture a true sense of wonder oozes from every frame, from the opening Paramount mountain match shot, to tour-de-force finale. Indeed, although it was Philip Kaufman's suggestion that the quest should centre around the Ark of the Covenant, the Hebraic tradition suggesting the Arc has awesome mystical powers is a concept more likely to appeal to the Jewish Spielberg than the Methodist Lucas.

    If Lucas is Raiders guts and Kasdan its head, then Spielberg is its beating heart.
    Last edited by AndyLGR, Jun 13, 2017
  10. Nehru_Amidala Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2016
    star 5
    One of the all time great films!
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  11. christophero30 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2017
    star 4
    Ah Marions theme. The movie theater down the road when I was a kid played a 10am show that summer for 50 cents. I must have seen it 20 times. It played in that theater for a year and a half. There were 2 movies and the other theater kept changing movies. I've never seen anything like it since. :) Perfect film.
    Last edited by christophero30, Jun 13, 2017
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  12. Martoto77 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2016
    star 4
  13. AndyLGR Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2014
    star 4
    Get out :)
  14. Martoto77 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2016
    star 4
    "Do I detect a rebuke?"
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  15. AndyLGR Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2014
    star 4
    You chose................. not very wisely :)

    Seriously. I love Crusade too, its a close second for me to Raiders though.
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  16. christophero30 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2017
    star 4
    I love Temple of Doom too. It's so much fun. Anything Goes. The 4th was mediocre but I don't think it's as bad as people say.
    Last edited by christophero30, Jun 14, 2017
  17. LAJ_FETT Tech Admin and Collecting/Lucasfilm Ltd Mod

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 9
    BBC One here in the UK has been running through them - Temple was on this past Saturday in the late afternoon.
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  18. Martoto77 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2016
    star 4
    I noticed that the version they used for broadcasting Raiders did not appear to be from a restored print or master.

    There was a big scratch down the middle of the screen in some of the Cairo scenes (Which is more Channel 5's style of showing old movies).

    I didn't tune in long enough to see if it contained the replacement CG matte painting and jeep falling off the cliff that apparently shows up in some broadcasters version.
  19. AndyLGR Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2014
    star 4
    Any re-run of the Indy films is always welcome, but they were only last on BBC over xmas last year.

    Who decides on the changes in colour and what dictates such big changes? I mean unless you had an original copy you would never know what had gone before. I certainly have no clue as I don't own the VHS tapes anymore, only the dvds and blu rays.
    Last edited by AndyLGR, Jun 15, 2017
  20. LAJ_FETT Tech Admin and Collecting/Lucasfilm Ltd Mod

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 9
    DVD definitely has a blue shift to it. Maybe they took reference pics of the costume and used those to get the colors back to the original. (I don't work in film - it's just a guess.)
  21. Martoto77 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2016
    star 4
    I saw some comparisons recently where insisting that a certain HDTV version was how it always looked and how it should look and not the latest DVD/Blu Ray.

    The Nazi banner was crimson instead of scarlet and the faces were pushing toward purple. [face_thinking]

    They were different caps from those on capsaholic though.
  22. Nibelung Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 2017
    star 1
    Was this the version with the CGI added to the shot of the cliff face in the truck chase?

    That shot was altered specifically because, as recounted in a 1990s LFL book on the Lucasfilm Archives, George Lucas personally approved the original matte shot after a test screening, despite concerns from ILM employees who still wanted to tweak the composites.

    Just one more instance of Lucas deliberately being a hypocrite in public so as to discourage the idea of Special Editionism in the public mind.
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  23. Ackbar's Fishsticks Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 2013
    star 4

    You have chosen... wisely.
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  24. Emperor Ferus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2016
    star 4
    I just saw that movie today on DVD (2008 release I believe). I used to own the original VHS, and I honestly don't remember it being a lot different.
    @Martoto77
    Last Crusade is my favorite, followed by this one. I like Crystal Skull more than Temple of Doom, but they are all brilliant.