main
side
curve
  1. Welcome to the new boards! Details here!

Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981)

Discussion in 'Lucasfilm Ltd. In-Depth Discussion' started by Binary Sunset, Jan 18, 2015.

  1. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Sure, I'm the new guy...

    It has nothing to do with opinion. You said they did a terrible job when they actually did what they were supposed to do: to color time the movie the way the director wants it. A terrible job would be doing the opposite of that.

    How exactly is it dishonest?

    Your dictatorial preferences are irrelevant to what I'm arguing.
     
    El Jedi Colombiano likes this.
  2. DrDre

    DrDre Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2015
    Well, that's where we disagree. You are of the opinion, that it's absolutely fine, if a director supplants a film with a modernized version decades after it was first released. I believe a director should respect the cultural heritage, and release a director's cut next to the original work, if he feels, he wants to modernize or update his earlier work. I think it's a terrible decision to replace a piece of cultural heritage with an modernized work, hence I consider what was done a terribe job.

    When the alteration was criticised, Paramount released a statement, that the new color timing is closer to the original theatrical color timing than the earlier color timing, that was used for the 2003 DVD release, which also served as the basis for the very similar looking HDTV broadcasts. This statement is false, as the earlier color timing is much closer to the original color timing than the orange/teal color timing of the bluray. Hence, it's dishonest.
     
  3. DrDre

    DrDre Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2015
    Here is the same frame for the 2003/2008 DVD and the bluray. Both these restorations were supervised by Steven Spielberg. The difference is incredible.

    DVD:

    [​IMG]

    Bluray:

    [​IMG]

    I used an algorithm, I developed to match the bluray to the DVD, such that they can be directly compared:

    http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/182518
     
  4. cxcfffxx

    cxcfffxx Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2017
    I watch the movie for the first time. Amazing
     
    christophero30 likes this.
  5. JEDI-RISING

    JEDI-RISING Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 15, 2005
    that's such a drastic difference [face_hypnotized]
     
  6. sarlaccsaurs-rex

    sarlaccsaurs-rex Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2007
    I like when Toht tells the other Gestapo agent to "Shoot them, shoot them both", to both Indy and the Giant Sherpa. The other Nazi receiving the orders is even somewhat shocked by this, its subtle, but its a nice little bit of detail, then the Sherpa realizes and jerks his head real fast and helps Indy kill the other Nazi., at that point it confuses me why Indy and the mook continue fighting each other after Toht clearly betrays him. Toht's betrayal strikes me as a bit of greed, (Not wanting to pay the local thugs.), Nazi racism, with the thugs being Nepalese after all, and just Toht being a sociopath sadist in general. Toht is such a nasty, and creepy character, even the other villains seem to despise him most the time. His death is sooo satisfying. That being said, he's still one of my favorite film villains ever.
     
  7. Kenneth Morgan

    Kenneth Morgan Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    May 27, 1999
    Seeing as how the movie was released on this date in 1981...
     
    christophero30 and Nibelung like this.
  8. AndyLGR

    AndyLGR Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 1, 2014
    36 years old this week. A timeless film, I've lost track of the amount of times I've watched this.
     
    christophero30 likes this.
  9. AndyLGR

    AndyLGR Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 1, 2014
    Raiders was ranked as number 7 in Empire magazines top 100 films:

    http://www.empireonline.com/movies/features/best-movies/

    Heres what they had to say about it:

    In ’81, it must have sounded like the ultimate pitch: the creator of Star Warsteams up with the director of Jaws to make a rip-roaring, Bond-style adventure starring the guy who played Han Solo, in which the bad guys are the evillest ever (the Nazis) and the MacGuffin is a big, gold box which unleashes the power of God. It still sounds like the ultimate pitch.

    And heres their full review:

    Renowned archeologist and expert in the occult, Dr. Indiana Jones, is hired by the U.S. Government to find the Ark of the Covenant, which is believed to still hold the ten commandments. Unfortunately, agents of Hitler are also after the Ark. Indy, and his ex-flame Marion, escape from various close scrapes in a quest that takes them from Nepal to Cairo.

    ★★★★★

    Tom Selleck was originally pencilled in to play Indiana Jones, don't you know. Of course you do. So, how about the fact that the name of the "obtainer of rare antiquities," actually first belonged to George Lucas' dog? Oh, that too? And herein lies our problem — Raiders Of The Lost Ark is so adored, so worshipped, that it has been analysed to death.

    In fact, even if it opened in the UK just one day after Charles and Di tied the knot, in the "Where were you when?" stakes, some would say there's no contest. And, yes, there is a multitude of treasures to be unearthed. The Star Wars-inspired registration of Jock's plane (OB-CPO); the hieroglyphics of R2-D2 and C-3PO in the Well Of Souls; and cameos by ILM's Dennis Muren (as a Gestapo agent) and producer Frank Marshall (a Nazi pilot). More significant, though, is Raiders' resonance. Initially perceived as a $20.8 million spin on the Saturday matinee serials ("I made it as a B-movie," said Spielberg), it would go on to gross $363 million (Paramount's biggest ever earner until 1994's Forrest Gump).

    It heralded a new dawn for the summer blockbuster; scooped four Oscars; elevated the dusty image of archaeology to the sexiest profession known to man and reinvigorated the hitherto lost art of whipping schoolmates' bare buttocks with rolled-up towels. "Why'd it have to be snakes?" is Indy's lament, but it might easily have been Karen Allen's. Cast after Spielberg and Amy Irving had split up and Debra Winger passed, Allen had to endure an experience that made Tippi Hedren's in The Birds seem like a walk in the park. Spielberg elicited more convincing screams by throwing live snakes at her head. Legend has it that many of the reptilian extras were never recaptured and still live in the dark recesses of Elstree Studios.

    But if the final result is one of the most exhilarating examples of action/adventure cinema — its pre-credit sequence, a glowing homage to ye olde Hollywoode, establishes a breakneck pace that can surely never be sustained, but is — this was not always on the cards. While the finished film arrived 11 days ahead of schedule, early on-set signals seemed ominous, with everyone bar the director taken ill on location in Tunisia. (It's rumoured that he avoided sickness by eating only the cans of Spaghetti-Os he'd packed). It was precisely this unfortunate disposition which resulted in a diarrhoea-striken Ford's suggestion to "Just shoot the ****er," in the now mythical Indy vs. Arab guard face-off, but it was also the latest turn in a growing line of mishaps. "Anything that promised serious injury or total disability, Harrison did," said Spielberg of Ford's insistence on carrying out as many of his own stunts as possible. An insistence which very nearly had fatal consequences when the German Flying Wing fight sequence went awry. "The crew's reaction was the normal one associated with having a film's star run over by an aeroplane when the movie is only half-completed," said Ford in hindsight. "I was a lot more careful after that."

    While Ford was perfect as the hell-for-leather, loveable rogue, the locations sumptuous, the special effects breathtaking and the cinematography dazzling, the real success of Raiders' lies in its conception. A product of the near-Holy trinity of Spielberg, George Lucas and Lawrence Kasdan, it is the collaboration that holds the key to the magic. Lucas' original brainchild (he pitched the idea to Spielberg in Hawaii, where he'd decamped to escape the critical mauling he feared awaited Star Wars), he provided the flair of the set pieces and the frenetic pacing. Add to that his harmonious working relationship with Spielberg — at one meeting Lucas snapped the wingstips off a model Flying Wing, reducing it from four to two engines and securing a reluctant compromise from Spielberg which saved some $250,000 — and his influence is clear.

    Kasdan, meanwhile, was the ideal choice as screenwriter. Fresh from co-writing duties on The Empire Strikes Back (1980), his screenplay was exceptional, lending essentially cartoon characters an extra dimension, whittling down an overlong script (scenes with a giant rolling gong and a mine-cart were cut and then re-employed for Temple Of Doom three years later) and easily covering for Lucas' Achilles Heel with his timeless dialogue. Third and most significant in the triumvirate is, of course, Spielberg. His ability to capture a true sense of wonder oozes from every frame, from the opening Paramount mountain match shot, to tour-de-force finale. Indeed, although it was Philip Kaufman's suggestion that the quest should centre around the Ark of the Covenant, the Hebraic tradition suggesting the Arc has awesome mystical powers is a concept more likely to appeal to the Jewish Spielberg than the Methodist Lucas.

    If Lucas is Raiders guts and Kasdan its head, then Spielberg is its beating heart.
     
  10. Nehru_Amidala

    Nehru_Amidala Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2016
    One of the all time great films!
     
    AndyLGR and christophero30 like this.
  11. christophero30

    christophero30 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    Ah Marions theme. The movie theater down the road when I was a kid played a 10am show that summer for 50 cents. I must have seen it 20 times. It played in that theater for a year and a half. There were 2 movies and the other theater kept changing movies. I've never seen anything like it since. :) Perfect film.
     
    AndyLGR likes this.
  12. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    I prefer Last Crusade. [​IMG]
     
  13. AndyLGR

    AndyLGR Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 1, 2014
    Get out :)
     
  14. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    "Do I detect a rebuke?"
     
    christophero30 likes this.
  15. AndyLGR

    AndyLGR Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 1, 2014
    You chose................. not very wisely :)

    Seriously. I love Crusade too, its a close second for me to Raiders though.
     
    christophero30 likes this.
  16. christophero30

    christophero30 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    I love Temple of Doom too. It's so much fun. Anything Goes. The 4th was mediocre but I don't think it's as bad as people say.
     
  17. LAJ_FETT

    LAJ_FETT Tech Admin and Collecting/Lucasfilm Ltd Mod star 9 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
    BBC One here in the UK has been running through them - Temple was on this past Saturday in the late afternoon.
     
    christophero30 and AndyLGR like this.
  18. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    I noticed that the version they used for broadcasting Raiders did not appear to be from a restored print or master.

    There was a big scratch down the middle of the screen in some of the Cairo scenes (Which is more Channel 5's style of showing old movies).

    I didn't tune in long enough to see if it contained the replacement CG matte painting and jeep falling off the cliff that apparently shows up in some broadcasters version.
     
  19. AndyLGR

    AndyLGR Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 1, 2014
    Any re-run of the Indy films is always welcome, but they were only last on BBC over xmas last year.

    Who decides on the changes in colour and what dictates such big changes? I mean unless you had an original copy you would never know what had gone before. I certainly have no clue as I don't own the VHS tapes anymore, only the dvds and blu rays.
     
  20. LAJ_FETT

    LAJ_FETT Tech Admin and Collecting/Lucasfilm Ltd Mod star 9 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
    DVD definitely has a blue shift to it. Maybe they took reference pics of the costume and used those to get the colors back to the original. (I don't work in film - it's just a guess.)
     
  21. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    I saw some comparisons recently where insisting that a certain HDTV version was how it always looked and how it should look and not the latest DVD/Blu Ray.

    The Nazi banner was crimson instead of scarlet and the faces were pushing toward purple. [face_thinking]

    They were different caps from those on capsaholic though.
     
  22. Nibelung

    Nibelung Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2017
    Was this the version with the CGI added to the shot of the cliff face in the truck chase?

    That shot was altered specifically because, as recounted in a 1990s LFL book on the Lucasfilm Archives, George Lucas personally approved the original matte shot after a test screening, despite concerns from ILM employees who still wanted to tweak the composites.

    Just one more instance of Lucas deliberately being a hypocrite in public so as to discourage the idea of Special Editionism in the public mind.
     
    Tosche_Station and Martoto77 like this.
  23. Ackbar's Fishsticks

    Ackbar's Fishsticks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 25, 2013

    You have chosen... wisely.
     
    Martoto77 and Tosche_Station like this.
  24. Emperor Ferus

    Emperor Ferus Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2016
    I just saw that movie today on DVD (2008 release I believe). I used to own the original VHS, and I honestly don't remember it being a lot different.
    Martoto77
    Last Crusade is my favorite, followed by this one. I like Crystal Skull more than Temple of Doom, but they are all brilliant.