PT RANDOM CONTENT AND "WHAT IF?" DEPOT

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by SithStarSlayer, Feb 27, 2013.

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  1. CommanderDrenn Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2013
    star 4
    Then Mace should come into the chamber, and, as no Sith has ever ruled the whole galaxy, say, "I'm out of it for a little while and everyone gets delusions of grandeur."
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  2. YourGoulden Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2014
    I agree with the consensus that Yoda could have killed or incapacitated Anakin. As for the idea that Anakin held back somewhat with Obi-Wan, I don't see this as being true. It seems to me that Anakin went all out with his old master. Sure, he wasn't all "rage-monster" and engaged in some wordplay with Obi-Wan but when they were fighting both were going all in. Given Yoda's bounty of experience and skill, I believe Anakin would have not been a match with him over time. His rage and power may have kept him equal for the beginning of the fight but it wouldn't have lasted long.

    Obi-Wan and Palpatine would have been much more interesting. Especially given the location of the duel, had it indeed carried on into the Senate, would have brought out some characteristics we haven't really seen in Obi-Wan. Whereas Yoda was more or less engaging Palpatine the majority of the fight, I think Obi-Wan would have tried a somewhat more hit-and-run strategy. Engage Palpatine, retreat; engage, retreat; engage, retreat. Head on, no way Obi-Wan would have survived. But by attempting to hide and use subterfuge, he at least would have lasted a little longer against the more deadly Sith.
  3. YourGoulden Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2014
    What if Anakin hadn't killed Dooku?

    We all know that Anakin slipped a little to the dark side and beheaded poor Dooku but what if he hadn't? Would Sidious have allowed Dooku to live or would he have killed him himself and kept seeking Anakin as an apprentice? Or perhaps allow him to be taken back to the Republic as a prisoner?
    Last edited by SithStarSlayer, Feb 12, 2014
  4. Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 7
    I think it's very likely he would've done it himself. It seems pretty glaringly clear Sidious only cared about making Anakin his ultimate puppet.
  5. YourGoulden Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2014
    Do you think he would have done it there on the ship in front of Anakin or somehow allow Dooku to escape and then kill him later?
  6. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 6
    I honestly don't know what happens.

    Another question is how they keep track of Dooku while Anakin carries Obi-Wan and the ship nosedives toward Coruscant.

    Does Dooku run off? Is he killed when the ship tears in half? Is he still in the ship when it crash lands? Does he manage to slip away?

    Someone shop in a handless Dooku with Palps, Ani and Obi-Wan during "another happy landing".

    EDIT: Hell, I forgot the intro to Grievous occurs after Dooku's death. So, is Dooku there, too? How does he hold on while the bridge is vented?
    Last edited by CT-867-5309, Feb 11, 2014
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  7. Merkual Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 4
    I think it would have been a much better film to be honest,

    after watching AOTC, and the tension between Mace and he, I would rather have seen a battle between them two.

    I don't like the "Sith always double cross each other" idea personally, you'd have to be a complete idiot to be a sith with the knowledge that you're likely to be killed off by either your master or apprentice
  8. Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 7
    Dooku did not expect it, either. He was clearly dismayed and shocked at his master's betrayal. Personally, I don't think Dooku suited being a Sith at all. I think he was forced to be one because he dared leave the Jedi.

    I think Sidious would've done it on the ship nearly immediately if he saw the boy wasn't going to do it. All Dooku was was a placeholder.
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  9. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 6
    I'm not sure how Dooku was forced to be anything.

    He didn't get the title of "Count" from Sesame Street.
  10. Loupgarou Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2010
    star 3
    Let's imagine that when Palpatine says 'he's too dangerous to be left alive', Anakin hesitates and lowers his sabers, saying no, he'll go on trial, that's the republic way to do it. He'd try to keep Dooku as prisoner while escaping, but since Dooku now knows Sideous won't likely bail him out later he'd certainly try to escape. The situation would be too hectic for Anakin or Obi-wan to chase Dooku down, and although he'd most likely die during the crash landing, this is Star Wars. He 'd escape, and I see two possibilities. Either he, as the public face of the CIS, regroups his forces without Palpatine's involvement and continues fighting. Palpatine still uses the war as a reason to create the empire, only the Empire actually has to directly deal with war right away. While this might actually help public opinion of the empire and help spur military development, it would mean split resources. Less troopers would be able to focus on the Jedi Purge, meaning more survivors. There are enough to rally sympathic worlds and begin a Jedi Rebellion. So now we have a three-way war; CIS vs Empire VS jedi rebellion. Anything could happen from then on.

    Other option is that when Dooku attempts to get his allies to work under him, he is either turned in to Sidious as a traitor, or killed by Darth Vader before he can. ROTS could be nearly the same, except with the meeting on Mustafar being held by Dooku, and Vader sent to assassinate him along with the others.
    Last edited by Loupgarou, Feb 11, 2014
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  11. Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 7
    Really? Try the way he's written. He's forced to be a Sith simply for leaving the Jedi as I said.
  12. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 6
    That's not the way I see it at all, but it's off topic.
  13. Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 7
    I am just as entitled to my view as you are yours, Sir. I was simply replying to you. You were the one off topic with the kid's show ref. I simply explained my reasoning for why I feel Dooku was indeed forced to be a Sith. Good evening.
  14. Beezer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    It's impossible to know from the movies precisely what Dooku thinks the plan is. I think if Anakin spared Dooku, it would have made for a ridiculously complicated situation. Would they have brought Dooku with them as a prisoner or left him where he was? It would have been extremely difficult to bring him as a prisoner and carry Obi-Wan on Anakin's back. Of course, if they managed to take him as a prisoner then presumably he would have been released when they were trapped by the ray-shields and taken prisoner themselves. (Although, come to think of it, Dooku probably falls down the elevator shaft when the ship loses stability.) Would Palpatine have risked Dooku betraying him and/or revealing his identity? Of course, Palpatine would have had a very hard time acting against Dooku without revealing himself and his powers. I guess Dooku would have just floated out into space with all the battle droids when Grievous broke the glass. Grievous had his grapping hook thing and our heroes grab onto the control panels, but Dooku wouldn't exactly have been able to grab anything....

    In short, I'm guessing the man with no hands finds a way to die anyway.

    Of course, this all begs the question: What exactly was the original escape plan? Certainly they weren't planning to take Palpatine out in a Jedi Starfighter. Maybe find their way to an escape pod?
    Last edited by Beezer, Feb 12, 2014
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  15. CaptainRegor Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2012
    star 3
    That is briliant question. As well as the responses. Never given it much tought, but yeah. If Anakin had done the Jedi way and let him live... How would they have delt with it? As you guys have poitned out he has no hands + Obi-Wan needs to be carried. Anakin would never leave Obi-Wan to die. And they couldn't just leave him becuase he does have the force... Interesting... Would Grievous have the guts to kill the armless man himself?
  16. DRush76 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    That doesn't make any sense to me. Why would leaving the Jedi automatically force Dooku to become a Sith? This suggestion sounds rigid to me.
  17. anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 9
    I definitely do not think Dooku was forced to be a Sith. IIRC from the EU, he didn't even join the Sith for the first few years after he left the Jedi. He was rather disgusted with both the Jedi and the Republic when he left the Order and I think that he adopted the mindset that, paraphrasing Quirrell from Harry Potter, there is no good or evil, only power and those who are afraid to use it.

    And he got a raw deal. It's funny in a sad way how many Sith apprentices think that they are the ones who will either subvert the Rule of Two or will become irreplacable to their Masters.

    As far as Anakin leaving Dooku alive...the only plausible outcome I could see for that scenario is Palpatine killing Dooku himself, and then killing Anakin for not being a worthy potential apprentice.
  18. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 8
    In Labyrinth of Evil - we find that Dooku murdered Sifo-Dyas and erased Kamino from the archives - right before leaving. The erasure was the last time he could take advantage of the privileges of being a Master and get into the archives in the first place.
  19. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    "Palpatine has told Dooku. 'I have somebody who I think will be a great Sith Lord and I think we can get him to join us. But we need to test him. So we're going to setup a situation where you fight him. If he gets the best of you, then I'll stop the fight and he'll have passed the test. If you get the best of him, then we'll let him go, and we'll let him stew for a few more years until he's ready.' But behind it, obviously, is Palpatine's real intention: If Anakin is good enough, Anakin can kill Dooku and become Palpatine's new apprentice. But he didn't tell Dooku that."

    --George Lucas, The Making Of ROTS; Page 41.


    That's what would have happened.
  20. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 6
    I don't see how that explains anything. Seriously.

    Anakin "can" kill Dooku, but in this scenario doesn't.

    Anakin "can" become Palpatine's new apprentice, but in this scenario doesn't, at least not then and there.
  21. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    The point was to drive Anakin to use the dark side and become a Sith Lord, much the same way Luke almost does against Vader. Anakin does it, but he doesn't turn because he saves Obi-wan.

    "Palpatine rather hoped that Anakin was going to leave Obi-Wan during the kidnapping, but Anakin is an honorable man and Obi-Wan is his greatest friend, so Anakin insists that he bring him along."

    --Ian McDiarmid, Star Wars Insider #82.
  22. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 6
    It's like we're not even in the same thread.
    Last edited by CT-867-5309, Feb 12, 2014
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  23. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    It's not that difficult to understand. Palpatine thought that Obi-wan was the key to turning Anakin, which is why Dooku tries to kill Obi-wan, but he botches it. Anakin, though, loses his cool and defeats Dooku and then kills him. But because Anakin didn't turn, Obi-wan is save and Palpatine realizes that he's only partially succeeded. So he turns around and uses Padme, once he senses Anakin's turmoil. If Anakin failed to kill Dooku, then Dooku would beat the boy but let him live and then take off in either the shuttle or aboard his Solar Sailor.
  24. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 6
    What thread are you in?

    IN THIS THREAD, Anakin defeats Dooku but does not kill him.

    Anakin does not kill Dooku. Dooku does not "beat the boy". Neither of these things can happen in this scenario laid out by the OP.

    Now go.




    The OP specifically points out the beheading. As in, Anakin wins but doesn't go through with the decapitation. Plus, if Dooku beats Anakin, then why does Dooku become a prisoner? Who is the Republic prisoner in this scenario? Why ask? The scenario has to have Anakin beating but not killing Dooku.

    (Okay, the thread got merged, so instead of this thread it's this topic)
    Last edited by CT-867-5309, Feb 12, 2014
  25. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 5
    This line of discussion has fanfic fodder written all over it.
    Last edited by Vthuil, Feb 12, 2014
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