Rogue One Rank Rogue One among Star Wars films

Does any prequel really add anything essential? The OT was completely self-contained and needed no prequels to make sense of it. So what's the difference here?

 

If the movie is good (which is a matter of subjectivity), does it matter if it's part of a trilogy that somehow builds on the other trilogies or if it's a standalone? (IMHO, I think trying to extend the Saga with more trilogies will get a lot older than a series of one-shot movies that tell smaller-scale stories or ones that don't fit into the scope or expectations of the Saga.)

Also, if you're not interested in the standalone movies, it sounds like they're not designed to be required viewing to understand the Saga. You can take or leave them as you wish.

Rey's motivation throughout the movie is her wanting to find her family, to be part of one again. That informs almost all her decisions throughout the movie. It's also resolved by the movie's end, with her developing a surrogate family of sorts with the friends she makes along the way.

Jyn's story arc in Rogue One is a little bit like Han Solo's over the original trilogy; she starts the movie only looking out for number one -- she only agrees to help the Rebels because they give her the options of assisting and regaining her freedom or refusing and being dumped back in the prison they found her in -- and isn't very impressed with the idea of joining up just because it's the right thing to do (listen to her conversation when she meets up with Saw again). The story arcs so that by the end she's willing to fight and sacrifice for something greater than just herself.

(As far as Jyn's connections with her father and the resulting issues, canon material is unclear. The junior novelization has a few throwaway lines that state that Jyn still loves her father despite the years of separation, albeit told from Cassian Andor's perspective; while the adult novelization is very clear that she hated him and wanted nothing more to do with him, with the additional story arc material as she works through this into as much a reconciliation as she has a chance to get. Either scenario would be consistent with what we see in the movie.)

 

I like Rey, but Jyn's more adorable to me.

 

Just wanna say that after having seen Rogue One again, I don't think it truly stands on its own merits. I'm convinced that if you haven't seen Star Wars before it won't be as good, especially in the beginning when so much information is being thrust upon you at once. You SHOULD watch the trilogy first.

Remember that awesome reveal of the Death Star? With the shadow looming over the Star Destroyer? It really showed you the scale of the Death Star and how big it was compared to those imperial ships. But if you haven't seen Star Wars then that's your first ever glimpse of a star destroyer period, and you may have no idea what they are or how big they're supposed to be. Could just be a normal spaceship to you. Point being that image, that scene... isn't going to resonate the same. And this movie is full of moments like that. Why in that first interrogation scene why does Jimmy Smitts come in so awkwardly out of nowhere? He doesn't even say anything. Again the significance of that moment only matters to you if you've seen him before. Otherwise it's just a weird moment with no explanation.

As for where it ranks in the franchise? Way better than the prequels, not nearly as good as the originals. Slow and muddled leading up to the big finale which delivers in a huge way.

 

Well, we do get to see the immensity of the Death Star when it's lining up for a shot at Jedha and it all but blocks out the sun, which is a much more impressive image. And I think it's more integral to the story that we experience its destructive power, and the movie sets up this moment quite well for the newbie, with the ominous warning from Cassian's informat at the start of the film, and later, the incredulity of the Rebel leadership.

I think the shot of Bail Organa and Jyn's reaction to his presence tells us that he is supposed to be someone important. And Smits plays his introduction very well: you see on his grim visage a person worn down by the travails of recent times. Having come out of the shadows was also a nice touch.

 

ESB/ ANH​

RO​

ROTJ
TFA
ROTS​

AOTC​

TPM​

 

WebLurker

Definitely. Not gonna waste my money and time of my life on Han Solo, Bounty Hunters, etc. I tried and didn't work for me. needless to try again.

 

ESB
ANH
ROTJ
RO
TFA
TPM
ROTS
AOTC

 

Indeed. I don't understand the opposition to new Star Wars films. The cinematic franchise was dormant for 10 years. There was no indication a new film was going to be made. Films are made to be enjoyed and I enjoyed Rogue One. I like the characters and the set pieces. I also think it makes ANH a stronger film. If they want to make more Saga stories they will. They may want to take a break with them after IX anyway. If that is the case, instead of having a 10 year gap with zero movies, why not embrace the Stories?

 

Don't be convinced of that, because I saw the film with two people who never saw the OT, and they loved Rogue One. Before they get to Saw and Bodhi, the information we get is deliberately murky, as it's essentially a spy film, and the audience is supposed to be just as in the dark as the main characters. When you first see the DS, the audience who hasn't seen ANH is saying: Is that the planet-killer that was mentioned earlier?

I'd actually argue that the truth may be the opposite of what you're saying. I've heard so many fan complaints about the film taking too long to get to the "steal the DS plans" plot (which doesn't come in until Galen's hologram tells Jyn to do that). But that's because they already know what the DS is and that the Rebels steal the plans. But RO spends time on showing the Alliance discover all this (and then actually refuse to launch the mission initiatially) to both portray the political complexity of such a revolutionary movement against an oppressive state, and to develop Jyn and Cassian's characters. Impatient Star Wars fans are the ones shouting "get on with it!" in the first Act. People unfamiliar with Star Wars are right there with the Rrbellion, and unsure of what the Rebels can do until the hologram winks out. That worked wonders for the lay viewers I experienced the film with. And for fans, it added a realism to the Alliance which we haven't seen before in SW, which was new and fresh and exactly what the franchise needs.

 

I loved the movie also and I liked Krennic.

He is a bit of a moron like Vader in ways however.
On the top of the tower on Scarif why did he not just shoot Jyn?

Like Vader he is a great villain on screen however like Vader the Emperor should have had him shot.

Vader let the Death Star plans slip through his fingers a number of times.
He failed to capture Luke during the events of TESB.

Vader and Krennic went out of their way to make sure the Death Star was doomed.

Tarkin was the only one with a brain.

Krennic enlisted the man who put the bobby trap into the Death Star.
He failed at every turn to stop the Death Star plans being stolen.

As for Vader not only did he do a really awful job at trying to get the plans back he also failed to shoot Luke down even though he was right behind him.
All Vader managed to do was shoot his old buddy R2D2.

 

As you point out Rey's motivation is incredibly thin to the point of almost non existence for much of TFA, what I think the film really depends on its Rey as a deliberately empty vessel for the audiences nostalgia so events like using the Force, Han's death, meeting Luke, etc only carry any weight because of our expectation of them.

I wouldn't say Jyn is really THAT different to ESB and Luke within ROTJ. In the former for example we see Luke's gung ho heroism slowlyy deconstructed to the point where he's asked to let his friends die for the cause and then discovers the family destiny he thought he had been following leads to the darkside in Vader. Meanwhile the Han/Leia romance is not exactly your classic Hollywood one either and more about overcoming emotional disconnection for the latter especially.

Again I think a big issue is that character depth is confused with personality and blockbusters generally have moved in the direction of much more over the top personalities in the last decade where as the OT was much more down to earth.

 

5
6
7
4
3
Rogue
2
1

 

I love Rogue One! The story is great, the characters are very likable, the locations are exquisite, the action is top-notch, the alien creatures and easter eggs are a most welcome addition and Vader looms large in my eyes now whereas before I was more of a Boba Fett fan but not now. Rogue One is just the funnest and most exhilarating movie that I've ever seen!

 

ESB
ANH
TFA
RO
TPM
ROTS
ROTJ
AOTC

 

Final ranking.

1. RO
2. ESB/ ANH
3. TFA
4. ROTJ
5. TPM
6. AOTC
7. ROTS

 

I hate to say it, but the more I watch this film, the more I don't really care for it. The characters aren't really that great, or even likeable. It really isn't the type of most of the characters, although I feel that the Guardians of the Whills were more poorly developed than the rest, anyway. But the more I watch their performances, the less I like them. Especially Chirrut, Baze and Cassian...Bodhi is definitely the weakest role in the film, but I feel that the first three are worse as far as the acting goes.

 

Yep. It's easily my second favorite Star Wars movie (after the 1977 Star Wars film, natch). I have watched RO every day since it was released on blu-ray, and it just keeps getting better. What an emotionally moving film.

I waited almost 40 years for this.

 

Rogue One has turned out to just get better and better every time I watch it. I could watch the final act of the movie over and over again on a loop. I also think the characters and acting are great (although I personally usually prefer more realistic characterizations, so I could understand if people are looking for more fairy tale type characters) and the score has also really grown on me to the point where I actually think it's one of the best SW scores.

Rogue One has elevated ANH for me (and in fact the entire OT to some degree) but it's also lowered my opinion of TFA to some agree (along with the PT a bit as well).

The most amazing thing Rogue One has done has been to allow me to realize that I don't like the OT just because of nostalgia.... because they managed to re-create the same magic and it still worked.

In any case new rankings:

1. Rogue One / TESB
2. ANH (more like 1b)
3. ROTJ
4. TFA (used to have it above ROTJ, not anymore)
5. ROTS
6. TPM
7. AOTC

Basically RO/ANH/TESB are an awesome trilogy that ROTJ does a great job (despite it's flaws) of wrapping up.

 

Updated ranking list:
1. A New Hope - what SW movie can beat the one that started the whole franchise?

2. Rogue One - now this is the prequel we have always waited for!

3. The Force Awakens - great movie to introduce a new generation of fans to Star Wars, including my wife and two sons (the younger one, who's two years old, can now recognize the Star Wars main theme and says "Star" whenever it plays!)... Even if Han Solo's death was a huge shock to fans and casual moviegoers alike!

4. The Empire Strikes Back - "No, I am your father", one of the best plot twists ever!

5. Return of The Jedi - what a way to end the OT and show the redemption of Darth Vader...

6. Revenge of The Sith - the best movie out of the Prequel Trilogy, getting to see how Darth Vader was "created" is memorable...

7. The Phantom Menace - I liked the Podracing scenes as well as the one at the end, where the DS1 lookalike got blown into two!

8. Attack of The Clones - Titanic-style romance in Star Wars, bad idea...

 

1-ANH
1-ROTS
1-ESB
...........
The rest.

 

It's absolutely not standalone in the slightest. Going into that film without any prior knowledge of the franchise will leave you entirely confused, and wholly unsatisfied. It's ending only works because ANH exists to finish it off. And the story only works if you have context of the Empire, the rebellion, who the Jedi are, how people view the force, etc. I can't imagine anyone walking into the universe blind and actually understanding Rogue One. It leans way to heavily on the previous films, and our knowledge of them.

 

That's absolutely wrong because I've experienced exactly the opposite with two colleagues of mine who've only seen Rogue One. It's fully self-contained, but it's simply difficult for SW fans to imagine that because it ties in so well to ANH. But those tie-ins are not at all necesssary for the narrative to work. The "force" is clearly a matter of faith. The "Jedi" are clearly people of a bygone era who were part of that now persecuted faith. The Empire is an oppressive dictatorship. The Rebellion is fighting it. And the ending is a beautiful expression of hope, and elegantly ambiguous. Do they destroy the DS? Perhaps, or perhaps not. But what's important is that the characters sacrificed to do the right thing. It's up to others now to pick up the baton and do the right thin again. In that context, there's not even a need to know who Leia is.

It makes perfect sense even if you haven't seen another Star Wars film. I have two case studies.

Watch RO again, and try to pretend you've never heard of the franchise. The information we get unfolds like a good mystery, and by the end, every bit of it was perfectly logical and self-contained.

 

1. ESB
2. ANH
3. RO
4. ROTJ
5. ROTS
6. TFA
7. TPM
8. AOTC

If I'm being honest, RO was the last of the new films I thought would get third place on my list, replacing ROTJ is no easy feat. It did this by complimenting ANH incredibly well and being an great Star Wars film in its own right IMO.