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Rap Lyrics that benefit society (continued thread)

Discussion in 'Archive: The Amphitheatre' started by LemmeSeeYaIYiYi, Jun 19, 2002.

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  1. 1stAD

    1stAD Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    May 10, 2001
    I do hold superhero comics to the same standards as novels, though I think you'd be surprised to find that many of the more sophisticated story arcs in comic book series are quite well planned and written. But that's off topic.

    If we're going to talk about how lyrics can benefit society, you're going to encounter two problems:
    1)Rap is not popular in mainstream culture
    2)You admit yourself that DHOH and PRT are not popular even in mainstream rap!

    Again, how does something benefit society when such a limited audience can hear it? And from your assessment of the situation, it is far more limited than I previously thought.

    Also, given the failures of government-funded drug education programs and similar ventures in both the public and private sectors, what good is ANYTHING that tells someone WHAT and HOW to think? Don't you think the didacticism in lyrics by DHOH and similar groups really hampers true understanding of the core cause of problems? What benefit can there be from engendering hatred for something like mainstream media if one only understands it on a very superficial level?

    If anything, this is propaganda. Though I must admit the line between education and propaganda is very blurry.

    EDIT: I'm about to drop from lack of sleep, so I think I'll crash. Good night...err, morning :)
     
  2. GrandAdmiralPelleaon

    GrandAdmiralPelleaon Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2000
    I don't get what exactly that you are trying to prove here. That some Poets are better then most rappers?
     
  3. AmadeusExMachina

    AmadeusExMachina Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    His point seems to be that all written work is comparable to all other written work, from novels to comic books to rap lyrics to poems, and that rap lyrics, when all is said and done, have the least ability to impact people and engage their minds in a bit of intellectual ballet.

    Oh, and as he said, comic books can cover amazing amounts of story and emotion, with wonderful artwork to boot. They've evolved, unlike rap lyrics.

     
  4. GrandAdmiralPelleaon

    GrandAdmiralPelleaon Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2000
    Amadeus, Rap is like all other music, what you are saying right now also goes for rock, punk, prog anything. Think about it.

    No need to insult rap. It's a music style.

    And comics, while fun and sometimes very impressive do not hold a candle to works like "In The Name of The Rose".
     
  5. AmadeusExMachina

    AmadeusExMachina Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    Some comics indeed do compare favorably with even the "best" novels.

    Of course most wouldn't dare mention them in the same breath, because comics are of ill repute, and they're "low brow."

    Right.....

    Anyway, I never said rock lyrics were any more socially beneficial than rap lyrics, did I? Nope.....but we're picking on rap specifically because this thread was about the social benefits or lack thereof of rap lyrics only. I think I even mentioned Rage Against the Machine earlier, about how people praise their lyrics as being important and poignant when really they're neither.
     
  6. FiveHorizons

    FiveHorizons Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2002
    "The poems you post, could also be interpreted as having no message at all, just a bunch of words thrown together. "

    Oh my. Have you ever taken an English class? Let alone creative writing? Perhaps you ought to know a few things about what you're trying to insult. Poetry is an amazing craft not to be belittled by rap. Rap, my friend, can often be interpreted as "a bunch of words thrown together." Granted it is found more often in the mainstream rap scene than in the underground or artistic divisions and subcultures, but poetry is an art form, unlike most of the rap "music" out there today.

    How many six year olds, or twelve year olds, for that matter are going to have the intelligence and determination to ascertain a socioeconomic message from mainstream rap? It's not going to happen. Point being that there might be positive messages in some music that hasn't - and probably won't - gone mainstream. However, these same individuals are not going to have the desire to seek out an inspiring message, unless it is delivered to them, like mainstream rap is on television.

    If you've found rap to be uplifting, good for you, I'm not trying to downplay rap. I understand that it has helped many-a-people, and kudos for that. But I still don't believe there's enough talent out there, actual talent, not Nelly or Snoop Dogg talent, to actually have an impact.

    RATM: (Just a few random excerpts of "poignant" lyrics)

    "Eurocentric every last one of 'em
    See right through the red, white and blue disguise
    With lecture I puncture the structure of lies
    Installed in our minds and attempting
    To hold us back
    We've got to take it back
    'Cause holes in our spirit causin' tears and fears
    One-sided stories for years and years and years
    I'm inferior? Who's inferior?
    Yea, we need to check the interior
    Of the system that cares about only one culture
    And that is why
    We gotta take the power back"

    "With precision you feed me
    My witness Im hungry
    Your temple it calms me
    So I can carry on
    My slaving, sweating,
    The skin right off my bones
    On a bed of fire Im choking
    On the smoke that fills my home
    The wrecking ball is rushing
    Witness your blushing
    The pipeline is gushing
    While here we lie in tombs"

    "The movie ran through me
    The Glamour subdue me
    The tabloid untie me
    Im empty please fill me
    Mister anchor assure me
    That Baghdad is burning
    Your voice it is so soothing
    That cunning mantra of killing
    I need you my witness
    To dress this up so bloodless
    To numb me and purge me now
    Of thoughts of blaming you
    Yes the car is our wheelchair
    My witness your coughing
    Oily silence mocks the legless
    Boys who travel now in coffins
    "

     
  7. GrandAdmiralPelleaon

    GrandAdmiralPelleaon Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2000
    >>Oh my. Have you ever taken an English class? Let alone creative writing? Perhaps you ought to know a few things about what you're trying to insult. Poetry is an amazing craft not to be belittled by rap.<<

    a) I'm not trying to insult poems, I have great respect for these people, I think I stated that a message later, you did read that far right?

    b) English class? Well yes, but that means something totally different here, that's like Spanish for you I suppose.
     
  8. 1stAD

    1stAD Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    May 10, 2001
    To be fair-minded, though I like the music of RATM, their lyrics are incredibly propagandistic and clearly promote a clearly anti-capitalist and anti-establishment sentiment. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I don't like any kind of art that tells me what to think. You can't reach ANYONE if all you're doing is telling them what and how to think; you have to help them find the truth on their own and let them make their own conclusions.
     
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