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Rapists, murderers, molesters, etc

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Red_Oktobur, Oct 15, 2002.

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  1. Red_Oktobur

    Red_Oktobur Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2001
    Rape: Life in prison. If they only give the guy a few years, he'll come out to do it again.
    Murder: Death penalty or life. People like that should not be allowed to get away with that.
    Molesting: 10 years or more.




    From my views on that, you may be able to see where I am coming from.

    What's your stance on it? What do you think should happen to these people who can get away with things like that?




    ...and a Jango
     
  2. Zasio

    Zasio Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 22, 2000
    I have this weird super idealistic opinion that everything can be justified when you really look at background and experience and mental shaping. So if they can make up for it okay and not do it again, I'd let them off. But if they're gonna continue being detrimental, off 'em. Of course, without being able to read people's minds 'n tell the future, that wouldn't work . . . I think everything pretty much depends on the situation . . .
     
  3. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2001
    Zasio, I believe that would qualify as being highly subjective, as opposed to highly objective, which I think the majority of people are regarding these things.
     
  4. Zasio

    Zasio Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 22, 2000
    Yeah, which kinda doesn't work very well when it's impossible to completely understand situations. :p Also gives many the opportunity to rant about unfair treatment. Lol, people should be grateful I'm in no position of authority. ^ ^

    EDIT: Here's a semi-question I'm interested in: What role do psychological problems play in everyone's opinions? (I mean, should a rapist be let off more if they're mentally retarded- or do you believe being to open about those things give people more room to squeeze out with lighter consequences . . . ?)
     
  5. WindexedStormtrooper

    WindexedStormtrooper Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2001
    There's one simple reason why rapists and child molestors don't get the same penalty as murderers.

    If the penaltly for rape = the same for murder, then chances are the rapist will kill the victim, since the penalty would be the same, and he would have less chance of getting caught with no living witness. The Supreme Court once reversed a death penalty sentence for a convicted rapist, and it has been the precedent ever since on the issue.

    That is why rape and child mostation aren't capital offenses.
     
  6. Jon_Snow

    Jon_Snow Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 4, 2001
    While I?m not in favor of the death penalty, I am in favor of life in prison for people who commit murders. As far as I?m concerned, it?s a life for a life. If you kill someone else intentionally, you should pay the price.

    I consider rape and molestation to be two aspects of the same thing. What?s the difference? In one case, the victim can fight back to some degree, and in one case the victim can?t. That?s about the only difference in my mind, and it?s not a difference that counts for anything. They are both still sexual violations, and should be treated the same. I think twenty years or so for each offense sounds about right in cases of rape.

    Also, I believe that prisons should serve four purposes: to protect society from the criminals inside, to punish the criminals for what they did, and to make the prisoners contribute something to society, and to reeducate the prisoners. The first is obvious, and I think no one will seriously disagree with the second. But I also think that prisoners should be made to work, made to do something productive with their time, and I think that those who want it should be allowed and encouraged to get a decent education. I think that once a person gets out of prison, then their debt to society should be considered discharged.
     
  7. Tukafo

    Tukafo Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 18, 2002
    and another one of those barbaric let's-fry-those-bastards-god-bless-america threads.

    sometimes I wonder where all this agression and hatred comes from that some posters show?
     
  8. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2001
    Tukafo, I really don't see anything constructive in your post. If you want to criticize Americans and those views, there are certainly plenty of other threads to do that with.
     
  9. Tukafo

    Tukafo Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 18, 2002
    I wasn't talking about Americans as such. I was talking about those people that sit in their armchairs, eat their pizzas and demand gas chambers for everybody.

    I don't care whether you consider my words "constructive" or not. My take is that a bit of compassion does never hurt.

    Plus - how constructive can you possibly be in a discussion with somebody that happily wants to see other people dead?
     
  10. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2001
    Maybe you might want to know why some people feel that way?
     
  11. Jedi_Xen

    Jedi_Xen Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 26, 2001
    I don't care whether you consider my words "constructive" or not. My take is that a bit of compassion does never hurt.

    So you think a prisoner should be given a slap on the wrist and a hug as long as he crosses his heart and promises not to do it again? *rolls eyes*

    I dont say death penalty for all, and I think circumstances should be looked at first. This DC Sniper should definatley face an execution squad, he/she has no "compassion" so he/she doesnt deserve any. It shot a 13 y.o. boy not too long ago, and you expect me to feel sorry for it? Understand its motives? I'm sorry but killing people at random as it has done is not deserving of life itself, it should be destroyed.

    Life in prison is adequate for alot of the others though. Do the crime do the time, it doesnt bother me thinking a man who killed is spending the rest of his life in a cage. He should of thought twice before he took that life, but as I said before youve gotta look at the circumstances. Was he defending himself or his famiily? Or did he just see someone and think I like his shoes, I'll kill him and take them. Which is a problem in alot of big cities in North America (not sure about Canada)

    Rapists and molesters, the solution is easy. You castrate them. End of problem.
     
  12. neoxeon2

    neoxeon2 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2000
    well i have some view on these...
    rapists- at least 20 years- life. it is wrong nd some of them get really bad treatment in jail.
    murderers- they get 30-life, considering for some 30 years will be life, they should have no chance of getting out.
    and for molesters- they get it the worst in jailas it is anyway, they are looked down apon in jail. at least 10 years for them i agree. they will learn their lesson by the time they get out.
     
  13. Dark Jedi Tam

    Dark Jedi Tam Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 12, 2000
    Public humiliation is another good form of punishment. Have a rapist or molester stand on a heavily populated street corner, sign attached to both front and back saying "I raped/ molested a child/ adult." I think one judge actually did do this, though I can't recall where it happened. Somewhere on the east coast I think.

    Not that I'm trying to poke fun at the idea, but it makes me think of that Simpsons episode where Marge and Homer are told they are bad parents and Bart, Lisa, and Maggie were given away to foster parents. Both Marge and Homer, bent over in the stocks, had to stand on the side of the street with a sign next to them saying "Spank me! I'm a bad parent!" :p
     
  14. Dark_Queen

    Dark_Queen Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 23, 2002
    EDIT: Here's a semi-question I'm interested in: What role do psychological problems play in everyone's opinions? (I mean, should a rapist be let off more if they're mentally retarded- or do you believe being to open about those things give people more room to squeeze out with lighter consequences . . . ?)

    Lets face it any person who commits such a crime as Rape IS at some level psychologically flawed as is anyone who commits any crime. There is a great deal of debate about the genetic link and the gene that possibly makes people more succeptible to commiting a crime. This has been neither proved nor disproved but there is certainly alot of debate going on in the scientific community over the last couple of years about it. But it is more likely that a rapist or murderer etc has some damage (Possibly caused before birth) to the cerebral cortex at the front of the brain. This can happen via a birth defect caused by such things as smoking, drinking, drugs or poor diet or can happen during the actual birth if the child is starved of oxygen for too long. Occasionally it is caused by an accident during childhood or adolescence. Strokes can also be a cause of this, all too often if an otherwise loving and gentle person gets a blood clot which affects this part of the brain the person will seem to suddenly become violent and often fly into violent rages. This part of the brain also governs behaviour and basically gives us 'normal' people the ability to forsee the consequences of such a crime and also it is the part of the brain that affects empaty so as we can epmathise with the suffering our acts will cause, these Psychopaths can't. So they are ALL mentally ill to varying degrees. Given this mental problem sometimes the family environment can fuel such antisocial behaviour also you only have to read some case files from serial killers (there are certainly books available)to see that alot of them come from broken and often abusive backgrounds.

    I don't believe in the death penalty as I believe that is just legalised murder but I do think these people should never be let out into society.
     
  15. DARTHPIGFEET

    DARTHPIGFEET Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 24, 2001
    Rapists and Molesters should be taken straight to execution rather than spending years in jail. Get rid of them. There are too many cases I've seen where one of these sick individuals get out of prison on good behavior or what not and go out and rape and kill again. Society needs to be protected from animals like this and they need to be put down like the dog they are. Preying on women and children is simply unexceptable to me and any other rational human.


    Murderers is a different situation. I think it really depends on the situation and the person who did the crime. Repeat offender or what I call a career criminal who is convicted of murder needs to go. They have shown that they will not change their ways and really serve no function in society anymore, because based on their past.

    People who are convicted of murdering the first time and under certain circumstances should get 30 years to life.

    However repeat offenders I show no misery too, because how many chances does a person deserve?
     
  16. Red_Oktobur

    Red_Oktobur Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2001
    I wasn't talking about Americans as such. I was talking about those people that sit in their armchairs, eat their pizzas and demand gas chambers for everybody.

    [face_plain] That's right. EVERYBODY. EVERYBODY should be gassed. [face_plain]



    I don't care whether you consider my words "constructive" or not. My take is that a bit of compassion does never hurt.


    Compassion? Wait, did you just say compassion? Compassion for who? A guy who just got done raping or murdering someone, more than likely a girl? Why for the life of me would you have compassion for a sick pervert like that? But that's how you liberals think, isn't it. He'll change, no worries. Give him a few years. Sit him down in Starbucks and give him a cup of coffee, he'll change.



    Plus - how constructive can you possibly be in a discussion with somebody that happily wants to see other people dead?


    Look who's talking. You want people who will rape or murder other people not to be punished, leaving them to go and murder more people? I'd feel much safer if I knew there was one less psycho to deal with in the world.




    ...and a Jango
     
  17. chibiangi

    chibiangi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2002
    I have a feeling the DC sniper is going to meet his end in front of a firing squad of cops.
     
  18. Rogue_Product

    Rogue_Product Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Rape: castration and thrown in a deep, dark hole
    Murder: chinese water torture
    Molestation: see "Rape"

    None of these people deserve to die... It's the easy way out as I see it. Let the bastards rot in cells regretting their actions, rather than sitting on death row and slipping quietly away with an injection or being fried with only a few seconds of pain... The punishment should reflect the pain caused, death is an easy answer IMO.
     
  19. EnforcerSG

    EnforcerSG Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 12, 2001
    If it were not for what someone said above (that if murder and rape had the same penality, there would be more of a chance of the criminal killing the victem) I would say death penality for rape/molestation.

    I think that we should be better than the ones who commited the crime, so anything that inflicts more pain than needed makes us just as bad I belive. However, we still need some difentive and final punishment, and something to make sure that they never do it again, and I think a quick humain death is the way to go.
     
  20. Whimper

    Whimper Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 11, 1999
    My my, we're a bloodthirsty lot today, aren't we? Torches and pitchforks, anyone?

    God I'd hate to be the sole defender of rapists, murderers and child molesters here, but it looks like no one else is going to.

    Let's look at each case seperately:

    1. Murder. Intentionally killing another human being, basically. There are as many different reasons people have committed this crime, as there have been murders. To say "gas 'em all" or "Skip the trial!" or anything like that, is simply barbaric. Despite being America's number one form of entertainment, murder is still the US's last great taboo. Commit murder, and all of a sudden you're no longer human. Instead, you're some kind of monster called a "murderer" who should be killed (or tortured) immediately, or at least imprisoned for life (which I consider a form of torture).

    Well I'm sorry, but not all people who've committed murder are monsters. A great portion of them are probably pretty normal people who've just made an incredible mistake. And there's no way to know the number of murderers who'll reoffend, because people are too 'thirsty for justice' to ever allow a serious test.

    Can any of you back up your "they all just kill again" rhetoric with some actual numbers?

    2. Child molestation. Child molesters are sick, sick people. In all likelyhood, they themselves have likely been abused at some point. I think as a society, we seriously need to invest time and money into better ways of rehabilitating child molesters, as opposed to filling prisons with them. True pedophiles, which only make up a small portion of child molesters, can't be cured... this much has been shown. Perhaps they can be taught to curb their impulses, perhaps not.

    But the last thing that the state should be endorsing is the government sponsored torture they will go through in the US prison system. Like it or not, these people have a psychological problem. Torturing them for it is about as ethical as torturing homosexuals or prostitutes. Which is to say, not at all.

    3. Rape. Point one, there are many different kinds of people in jail right now for the crime of rape, so we might as well know what we're talking about. There are a few kinds of rape in the world. Some are: a) Forced intercourse, by a stranger. b) Forced intercourse by an acquantaince. c) Non-violent non-voluntary sex (usually date rape) d) Failure to stop mid-way through the sex act, when one party changes their mind.

    There should be as many kinds of punishment for rape, as there are kinds of rape. This is a super-touchy area, in my mind, because of the unreliability of victim testimony. A rape victim has gone through one of the most terrible ordeals of his or her life- but that doesn't make their recollection or perception of events better... just more affecting.

    If we were to put to death every person convicted of rape, I maintain there'd be a lot of dead people who could have been reformed. Could have been re-educated. Or might have been innocent.

    Once again, 'thirst for justice' should take a back seat to level headed judgement, and compassion.

    "What about compassion for the victim?!" Is usually the next rallying cry, and I think that it is the most worthless piece of rhetoric ever uttered. Nobody is helping a rape victim by killing the rapist. And there are plenty of ways to prevent further crimes, without resorting to life imprisonment or capital punishment.
     
  21. Jon_Snow

    Jon_Snow Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 4, 2001
    I don?t put prostitutes, homosexuals and child molesters into the same category. I put rapists and child molesters in the same category.

    I think that this world would be a better place if there was no prostitution, but neither do I blame the prostitutes. I blame the people who go to prostitutes. I don?t think that prostitution is something that many women (and men, there are male hookers as well) are happy to be doing. But they need the money, and there are people willing to pay. Is that their fault? I blame it on those who are willing to pay, and on governments that do so little to support people that they?re forced to resort to prostitution, and on the pimps that keeps people on the streets. I don?t blame the hookers themselves.

    I see nothing wrong with homosexuality. Two (or more) consenting adults of sound mind should be allowed to whatever they want together. I don?t really want to see it at all, but I think that people have the right to do whatever they want in the privacy of their own homes/offices/whatever. If everyone is present voluntarily and no one gets hurt (in a way they don?t want to be hurt ;)), then it?s morally all right by my standards.

    Child molesters are not forced into what they do like most hookers and they?re not having relations with another consenting adult. They?re doing what they do with a child. A child cannot give consent the same way that an adult can, not knowing exactly what that consent will mean. As far as I?m concerned, child molestation is rape, pure and simple. Child molesters should be treated like other rapists.
     
  22. Obi-Zahn Kenobi

    Obi-Zahn Kenobi Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 23, 1999
    I think that the penalty for rape is that all of the men-folk(Male relatives of the person who was raped) should be allowed to take whatever they want to take into a room with the rapist and stay there for as long as they like.

    The, uh, illegitimate child's screams will be heard for miles around.

    The same goes for child molestation. Molestation = rape.

    Of course, that would also make the people more likely to kill the victim. So we need a new punishment for that.

    Hmm. Castration is a good idea. Life in prison sounds good. However, prisons shouldn't be these places with free food, cable TV, gyms, and all of the comforts of home. Your family even gets welfare while you're in jail!

    In prison, you should live in a tent and be fed potatoes and water. Criminals deserve nothing.
     
  23. Tukafo

    Tukafo Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 18, 2002
    I can't believe what I'm reading here. It's not even a discussion. it's a group of very sick people letting go off their frustration.
    Sad world
     
  24. TeeBee

    TeeBee Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 2, 2002
    And what would you describe murderers, rapists and child molestors as being?
     
  25. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2001
    Edit: Nevermind.
     
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