Saga Rate the Star Wars films, TPM to TFA

Return of the Jedi
The Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope
The Force Awakens
Revenge of the Sith
The Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones

Truthfully, I've only seen TFA once. When I watch it again, I have a feeling it will either stay where it is, or move above ANH.

 

1. The Force Awakens
2. BOTH The Empire Strikes Back AND Revenge of the Sith
4. BOTH Attack of the Clones AND A New Hope
6. Return of the Jedi
7. The Phantom Menace

It's weird rating these films because they are so different - especially the PT films and the ST films. I love different things about each of them - even TPM which I like least.

TFA - I love the acting from John Boyega, Daisy Ridley, Carrie Fisher and Adam Driver. I love the humour, the lightness, the freshness of it. The story was great - well told and exciting. The creatures and aliens were brilliant as were all the new ships and vehicles. I loved the way there were wrecked spaceships lying around too - it was really atmospheric. The dialogue was excellent. Most of all though I love it that there are going to be more stories to tell - lots and lots of stories and this time they're all going to fit together inculding books and everything.

TESB - This is fantastic - Hoth, Dagobah, Cloud City, Fett, - the jokes, the relationship between Leia and Han, finding out more about being Jedi through Luke's training. Lando's ways. Brilliant - just brilliant.

ROTS - There is so much in this which I love - the fight on Mustafar, the creation of Vader, the space battle over Coruscant, Kenobi on Boga and the fight with Grieivous. The art in the film was brilliant and Ewan's work was outstanding I felt. This would would have been above TESB except for the some of the dialogue which seems to trip me up even now and the way Anakin turned which didn't make any sense - it seemed odd and didn't work - for me anyway.

AOTC - I really love this film for the scenery - the artwork - the beautiful mixed CGI / model locations. It's really different from the other films I think and I kind of get the impression that a lot of folk love it or hate it. For me it's a feast for the eyes.

ANH - what can I say - where it all began. I can still remember sitting in the cinema and watching that very first star destroyer roar after the Tantive IV and knowing that it was going to blow my mind.

ROTJ - All the stuff on Tatooine I really loved. I also adored the speeder bikes and the forest location. The super star destroyer was totally fabulous too. Foir me the Ewoks seemed to miss something. I always wish that as well as being funny and cute they'd had some skill or power which was more than just teh ability to set traps out of logs and rocks. E.g. if they'd had a really poisonous bite which they would only use for people who are enemies of the planet, or the tech ability which wookies have, or mild force powers or something. It would have given them an edge. Then, because the good guys got to know, them they then knew about these abilities, and were able to join forces with them to great advantage. I think that would have worked better.

TPM - the first and last light sabre fights were great. I loved the underwater Gungan city and the sacred place. I also really enjoyed the new Tatooine with all the creatures and stalls and vehicles. For me though the story didn't work, the tone of lots of scenes felt off and the quality of the dialogue I thought was really poor. This is why I have to put it last. Still fun to watch though. I don't hate it.

 

Complete Results as of January 31, 2016:

N=322









Link to Complete Results

Links to past results:
December 31, 2015

 

TFA is not my favorite, and my #1 shifts between ROTS and ESB. Depends on my mood I guess. My ranking currently stands thus:

1. ROTS
2. ESB
3. TFA
4. AOTC
5. ROTJ
6. ANH
7. TPM

 

Because in many ways it's a departure from the original saga.

 

As someone who does it's very simple.

It's the least of the movies by a massively wide margin because it only really does what has been done before. It adds very little in and of itself. I fully expect that VIII and IX will rather easily pass it and it will be looked back upon as likely the least imaginative and progressive movie of the entire series. I hope so anyway as if VIII and IX are more of the same then the ST will be really disappointing.

As I have said I like TFA and it is a good entertainment but it depends so much on the support of I-VI to hold it up because it isn't a self sustaining story in itself. It will need the next two movies to make it better as a movie not in simply an unfolding story way but in a depth and structural way the other movies don't. Obviously the movies all enhance each other but the support that TFA needs is some fundamental underpinnings that aren't in the movie itself.

Now I expect that it will get it but solely based on the first movie it doesn't have that at this time.

 

Honestly, I find it difficult to accept TFA as a Saga film. It feels more like Superman Returns, which was intended to be a continuation of the Donner narrative but just came across as a lazy facsimile with nary a thought in its pretty head. (Although that piano sequence is better than anything Abrams cooked up.)

How about this?

1. TESB
2. ROTS
3. ANH
(4. Space reserved for Rian Johnson, who will undoubtedly make a real movie, despite the Disney Empire)
5. TPM
6. AOTC
7. ROTJ


Apocrypha:

-J.J. Abrams's two-hour action-figure experiment

 

See, I just don't understand the bolded part in light of TPM. TPM showed, if anything, that Star Wars trilogies begin with the same basic story and then go off in a different direction. I honestly don't see how TFA is any more "ANH-like" than TPM. Yes, TPM had things like the Pod Race and the Chosen One prophecy, but TFA had things like Rathtars and the Psychic Lightsaber. TPM also basically only did what's been done before, so why is it so far above TFA? None of the trilogy first installments are "progressive" because their only job is to introduce the characters and the main conflict. That's what each first installment "adds". Obviously, ANH wasn't just a first installment, but the first movie, so everything in it was new, but if watched for the first time after viewing the PT, it "adds" just as little as TFA. In fact, most people who watch the saga for the first time by starting with the PT have made the same complaint about ANH: that it doesn't add much to the story and just kind of slows everything down. So whilst I agree that VIII and IX will naturally be more progressive than VII, I don't see how VII differs from I (or IV, depending on which order you watch the series) in terms of saga progression.

 

1. ROTS
2. ROTJ
3. TESB
4. TPM
5. ANH
6. AOTC
7. TFA

 

Although it changes a lot my list right now would have to be

1. ROTS
2. ROTJ
3. TFA
4. AOTC
5. TESB
6. TPM
7. ANH

Although I still love all of them.

 

On this very page I've seen two people say the exact opposite thing about TFA. One said they can't accept it as a saga film and the other said it is too much of a rehash, essentially a it's a Star Wars film that is too Star Warsy.

 

My favorites in order:

1. The Phantom Menace
2. Revenge of the Sith
3. Return of the Jedi
4. Attack of the Clones
5. The Empire Strikes Back
6. A New Hope
7. The Force Awakens

Best in order:

1. Revenge of the Sith
2. Return of the Jedi
3. The Phantom Meance
4. The Empire Strikes Back
5. A New Hope
6. Attack of the Clones
7. The Force Awakens

 

To my mind in light of TPM is the number one reason that shows TFA's lack of new direction. George Lucas as the creator of Star Wars showed that he can take the basic elements that he created in the first place in The Star Wars and expand them in directions that no one else would think of doing. He uses the archetypes he created for Star Wars and renews them. There is a lot of the same basic overall story of ANH in TPM from which he built on. TFA is not the same basic story it's the virtually the same story in a remake, reset, reboot, retool, retro-ized universe.

If you really think that TPM only did what had been done before then why did a very small but vocal part of the fanbase (who have now spent almost 20 years complaining about it) not embrace it the way they mostly have TFA? If TPM did the extremely conventional approach that TFA did in terms of story, characters, environments, design, tone etc (all liberally taken from the OT and ANH in particular) then those fans would have embraced TPM as well if it had done the same thing. It didn't.

I shudder to think about a scenario where Lucas sold Star Wars 20 years ago and the company that took over would then do the prequels. Their minds would be stuck in the mode of "this is what Star Wars is" and they simply wouldn't be able to think outside of what was established as Star Wars to them.

Except that George Lucas is the artist that was the originator of his story. He knew how it would all play out in the overall when he created the prequels and after the OT was finished.

The new movies are not only of Lucas but they should give him a script credit! as they take basically everything in them from I-VI. I think of the startling depth of imagination and execution of TPM and then compare that to TFA with it's startling lack of imagination other than using what Lucas already created.

I know why they did it and for what they wanted to do they did a very good job. They did some clever things in terms of taking Lucas rhyming schemes and did some clever reworking. A lot was not clever though effective.

 

My faves and what I'd rate them:

1. Empire Strikes back (9.8/10)
2. A New Hope (8.8/10)
3. The Force Awakens (8.6/10)
4. Return of the Jedi (8.2/10)
5. The Phantom Menace (5.8/10)
6. Revenge of the Sith (5.5/10)
7. Attack of the Clones (3.6/10)

ESB: Just so emotionally powerful, so funny, so moving, so much mystery, with probably the greatest surprise of all time.
ANH: Without the weight of ESB, but so fun and engaging. A classic simple good vs. evil story.
TFA: Feels to me like a great extension of the originals. A great mix of new and old. A few little qualms (no explanation nor time given to destruction of an entire system) but great entry.
RotJ: Everything about this movie is great, except the absurd and comical way the Ewoks defeat the Empire. Bashing an AT-ST with logs? Ok, that isn't too bad and doesn't suspend my disbelief. Having storm troopers incapacitated by dropping rocks on their helmeted heads, throwing rocks at them, and having the portrayal of said rocks on screen look like they were tossed lightly at them to boot? I have a hard time with that and takes this movie down a notch from others in the OT.
TPM: Despite Jar Jar, and silly droid fight, felt the most like Star Wars to me out of the Prequels.
RotS: Most polished of prequels in some ways, but bad dialogue, Anakin's (for me) unbelievable turn to the dark side, yet another new previously unmentioned villain, and Padme's unbelievable death set it back for me.
AotC: A new previously completely unmentioned villain, and jumbled plot, a slow pace capped with barely controlled chaos. There are a few cool elements, but this is the only one that is really actually hard for me to watch.

 

ROTJ
ESB
TFA
ANH
ROTS
TPM
AOTC

For the record, I enjoy all the films (even the Prequels, somehow).

 

. What exactly is the difference between "same basic story" and "virtually the same story?" TPM: The quest of two Jedi to free Naboo from the TRade Federation. ANH: The quest of the Rebels to free the galaxy from the Empire. TFA: The quest of the Resistence to free the Galaxy from the First Order. In TPM, they do this by destroying the Trade Federation control ship, in ANH, they do this by destroying the Death Star, in TFA, they do this by destroying Starkiller Base. There's a significant difference here?

Because the direction, dialogue, and acting was subpar and there was an egregious lack of inspired humor.

. So it couldn't possibly be that it was simply a poorly made film.

. I think Lucas definitely had the right idea storywise, and I will defend to my dying breath the basic story choices he made that were specific to the PT, but I & II weren't enjoyable as movies to a lot of people, myself included, because they lacked genuine excitement/emotion. It has nothing to do with being unconventional. In fact, the uniqueness of the stories told in II and III were assets to my mind. It was the scripting, direction, and performances, particularly in I and II, that weren't just unconvincing, but often times embarrassing.

That's neither here nor there. We ought to be judging the films only by their content, not by the stated or supposed intentions behind them.

. I believe he is credited at the end as the creator of the characters and story upon which the movie is based, if I'm not mistaken. And while I agree that TPM displayed more imagination than TFA, to me TFA was so much more enjoyable a movie experience because the acting, directing and dialogue are far superior. Not because I think the basic story is anything new. If Episode VIII is the same basic story as Empire, THENI will join your band wagon. So far, though--for me anyway--TFA is par for the course.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

If imagination generates midichlorians, "space Jesus", Jar Jar, and a weirdly cult like and hide bound Jedi code then I think a bit less is more help than harm.

 

Well, to me, visual similarities, plot points and character situations created that ANH feel in TFA. TFA uses the same TIE fighters as ANH, the same main enemy weapon (they even compare the two) that, once again, destroys a planet and our heroes must destroy that weapon before it destroys them, there's copy-paste cantina scene, there's a droid with some informations vital for the Rebel... Resistance and Han on the Starkiller base comes accross some of ANH situations - blast doors, garbage compactor etc.
TPM is similar to ANH, but not as much as TFA. Rey is even as old as Luke was in ANH, right?

 

1. TESB
2. TFA
3. ANH
4. RotJ
5. RotS
6. TPM
7. AotC

 

At the moment, it's like this:

1. ROTS
2. ROTJ, TPM
4. ANH, TESB, AOTC, TFA

 

Favorite-wise: 1) Attack of the Clones; 2) Return of the Jedi; 3)ANH and ESB are pretty even; 5) Revenge of the Sith and The Force Awakens are pretty even; 7) TPM....but my level of like between any of them isn't significantly more or less. I love them all!

 

The difference between ANH to TPM and the virtual non-difference between ANH and TFA.

Each Lucas movie wants to do different things TPM was not trying to be AOTC or ROTS. AOTC was not trying to be TPM or ROTS. ROTS was not trying to be TPM or AOTC.

ANH was not trying to be TESB or ROTJ. TESB was not trying to be ANH or ROTJ. ROTJ was not trying to be ANH or TESB.

TFA was trying to be ANH with many other elements from all of the movies combined, reorganized (sometimes in very clever ways)

What is so odd to me I am simply pointing this out in an analytical way which also of course helps to form my opinion as to why it's by far the least of the Star Wars movies and hopefully the least we will see for a good long while.

I enjoy it and understand what it is.

Is Maul Vader? No is Kylo Ren? Basically yes. He's a character who is reset to the Vader of ANH.

 

1. ESB
2. ANH
3. TFA
4. ROTS and ROTJ (tied)
5. TPM










6. AOTC

 

There's a difference between repeating elements that drew people in to the OT dramatically, and "trying to be ANH". The film is trying to be a good Star Wars saga movie, period. The elements the makers repeated are simply the elements that drove their enjoyment of the original films, HOWEVER....This is the ONE film, narratively speaking, in which this benefits the saga as a whole. Allow me to explain: If the whole saga is considered as a 3 act play about the end of the old Jedi order and the birth of the new one, then this repetition of themes and "notes" in the beginning of the third act is basic. The beginning of Act 3 usually reminds the audience what the final goal is and what the stakes are by "summarizing", in a way, the story thus far. TFA shows that as long as there is no Jedi order, the Force continues to be knocked out of balance by the Dark Side and it's practitioners in the same old way. That's the film's primary job as the opening of the third act. The final resolution is yet to be seen. "Going backward to go forward", far from being disingenuous, is what most third act openings do. Expect Episode VIII to propel the story forward in ways unimagined. If it doesn't, then I will join your camp.

If you judge the quality of a movie solely by how much it borrows from other movies, I imagine that can be rough. As for me, the level at I which enjoyed watching a movie weighs the heaviest.

I disagree with this MOST heartily. All
Three villains are vastly different IMO. Maul was a caged animal, Vader a dark warrior, and Kylo a spoiled brat. As the trilogies become more familial, the villains become more familiar.

 

I think they created an OT feel, which was not only an asset, but the point. There's a balance to be struck, in this sort of series, between elements that are completely new and common elements that make it work as a member of the series, and I imagine it's very, very difficult to strike that balance. Did TFA go a little too far into the latter side of that balance? Perhaps, but as I mentioned in another post, the beginning of the third act is usually, dramatically speaking, the best place to do that. It's much better, as one chapter in an ongoing story, to take familiar elements and give them new purpose/meaning, than to introduce too many entirely new things. I think TPM and AOTC ended up being so focused on the "completely new" side of that balance, that the question of whether they would actually work dramatically was virtually ignored. It's true that you never know if something's going to work until you put it out there, so I'm not blaming George for taking the risks he did with the PT. That's part of being an artist. That doesn't mean it's always going to work, however. George is an experimental film maker at heart. It seems like he found himself so pressed to work his experimental film making into the construct of his established work, that he ended up being forced to tell too much that needed to be shown..to explain too much that needed to be suggested. That, in turn, worked against the dramatic ambition of the piece. TFA does a brilliant job of leaving out exposition, and is so flexible in the possibilities of canon it evokes that it's unlikely to paint the next two pictures into any kind of corner. It's THOSE TWO PICTURES that I expect will propel the saga into it's new and culminating direction. If they don't, I will join the naysayers.

I will grant this. On the other hand, TPM used droid ships that looked about as threatening as grandma's Subaru. That made sense, though, because the Trade Fed was more commercial. Considering the First Order is trying to be threatening, the TIE fighters work.

Actually, it destroys whole systems (several planets at once) and that's in keeping with the escalating pattern. Federation control ship destroy civilizations, Death Star destroys planets, Starkiller Base destroys solar systems. Our heroes in TPM must destroy the control ship, so this is actually a similarity with all 3. Lucas even mentioned in an interview that the point was to show that Anakin and Luke had the same basic journey, but whereas Anakin went one direction, Luke went into another direction. I fully expect Rey to go in a third direction.

This is the one area that I agree is unnecessarily repetitive.

This is an example of a familiar element with a new purpose/meaning I was talking about. Yes, the information is vital to the Resistance but instead of it being information about the super weapon, it's information about the Last Jedi. In other words, it's information to aid in winning the larger picture, rather than this one particular threat. It's information that progresses the Resistance in their long term fight rather than their short term fight. It's these variations that season the saga, rather than make it unnecessarily repetitive.

These are references, in-jokes and variations. The story does not hinge on them.

Perhaps in degree, but the difference is trivial, not essential.

Right, but Anakin was the same gender as Luke. The overall story of the ST may very well necessitate a gender difference in the same way the PT necessitated the age difference (the problems of which didn't make themselves clear until II and III). It is yet to be seen.