Rationalizations

I firmly believe that Lucas created the original trilogy with little knowledge as to how the prequels were going to play out He may have had ideas, but certainly nothing so concrete as a complete story line. I'm getting tired of Lucas explaining away the differences between the OT and PT after the fact. For instance, he says that the reason Luke was able to beat Vader was because Vader's power had been diminished after the lost his limbs. Its ludicrous to believe that Lucas was thinking about this while he was writing the script. He's constantly adding erroneous facts and details for the benefit of the fans (no one else would notice or care). Twenty years separate the two trilogies, and there are understandable differences.

 

What? You mean you didn't think that Darth Vader built C-3PO back in 1977? You dare to doubt Lucas when he says he knew that all the Storm Troopers were really clones of "Jango Fett?"

Seriously, I agree with this main post wholeheartedly.

These bastardizations of the OT were probably done because Lucasfilm feared that nobody would like the movies if Anakin was weaker than Luke was. So they decided to call him "The Chosen One" and say he had the largest "midichlorian" count ever, to make him more of a badass.

Hey, we should at least get ONE good movie out of it, plus we got to see Natalie Portman in black leather, right?

 

" He's constantly adding erroneous facts "

Even though your probably right, how does this change anything? Was there ever an argument that Lucas claimed he had the whole story in his head back in 1976? Ive never heard of it. So that said, how could you be so pompous as to suggest what George Lucas says about his own creation is erroneous?

 

Agreed.

When one looks at the way things were kept open in the original trilogy, from the way the Mandalore Warriors were hinted at, to everything else in the Clone Wars. It is such a tragedy that the SW films have fallen the way they have.

 

I have to think that George Lucas had the main elements of the prequels set in stone when he was making the OT back in the late 70s/early 80s and worked out the smaller details once he knew they were to become films themselves. Of course it would be very naive to assume he didn't come up with at least a few major points while writing the script before the shooting of each PT film. However, I think he is too good of storyteller to just throw caution to the wind and make up all of the more important elements on a whim.

 

He may not have known all the details yet, but that doesn't change the fact that it is his story. He might have gone into A New Hope with little knowledge of what came before, but that is within his rights. I'm sure there are authors and writers who write one story and later devise addition stories that they hadn't thought up before, that is fine.

Luke was able to beat Vader was because Vader's power had been diminished after the lost his limbs.
Vader's love of his son allowed Luke to defeat him. It had nothing to do with who was stronger in the force.

-Seldon

 

the way the Mandalore Warriors were hinted at

Where did this happen?

 

^^

I was thinking the same thing. Fanboys' wetdreams don't equal cannon.

 

George Lucas never said anything about it. EU rumors don't amount to anything.

-Seldon

 

1) Darth Vader wasn't intended to be Luke's father when the original Star Wars was made.

2) The early drafts for the original Star Wars have more incommon with the plot of the prequels than the OT (eg. big fuss over a treaty, no Death Star and so on.)

Conclusion; a little from column a, a little from column b...

>>>He's constantly adding erroneous facts and details for the benefit of the fans (no one else would notice or care).

"Erroneous"?

Ermm... OK.

 

All writers develop the story in the eary stages. Lucas spent a long time thinking about how he wanted the saga to be like and finally settled on what it became. The early drafts were just that, and nothing more. They were just records of his changing story. Once he wrote final script from A New Hope, he knew that Vader was the father.

-Seldon

 

I really doubt that, but I have nothing to say to back up my word. Anyway I don't care when Lucad thought of the PT scripts or whether he knew back in 76 that R2D2 saved Lukes mother from molten metal. It's his story and we can keep or throw away anything we like. Period. What did you expect, Ben's ghost to appear on Hoth and start spilling the beans?

Ben -Luke you are to go to the Dagobah system. There you will find the Jedi Master (yoda) who instructed the jedi master (dooku) who not only trained the jedi master that trained me (qui-gon) but he also betrayed the Order and became the apprentice of the Dark Lord of the Sith (palps) who at the time was the supreme chansellor of the Republic, but we didn't know. Did you know? He's the Emperor now.

Luke -That's it. I'm definately dying. I'm hallucinating.

Ben -No Luke! That is the truth, from a certain point of view of course, much like the fact that your father is actually Darth Vader, but he changed his name after I shoved him in the fiery mouth of a volcano.

Luke -Gee, was he carrying a golden ring at the time? Don't tell me. Your true name is Sam, and you're a gardener. Let me freeze to death in peace, will ya?

Ben -Um, no, I don't seem to remember any rings. But he did build C3PO. And R2 belonged to your mother!! I just remembered! Even though I only saw the droids twice some 20 years ago, and they ARE a bit of common design....

 

I don't have a problem with the inconsistencies in the trilogy. I'm just getting annoyed by his constantly adding fairly extraneous stuff to rationalize them.

 

Wouldn't you want something you've spent the majority of your adult life working on to be as smoothly-functioning as possible? That's what GL is doing, and I don't blame him.

 

While I don't like Lucas' extensive rationalization (i.e. closing up the universe to get back at us fans), one thing I do like about him is how he leaves much of it open to interpretation. In other words, he doesn't answer EVERY question.

To briefly bring the E.U., into the picture, Boba Fett originally had an extensive history behind him by the OT. But the PT gives Boba a very different history behind him. Direct contradiction, right? Not necessarily. Boba Fett was, at the time of the OT, the baddest bounty hunter in the galaxy, and noteriety will create all sorts of rumors and myths about a character. Thus, it's very possible that much of what we knew about Boba before the PT was all just legend. After all, not everything we read and hear is the whole truth.

In other words, Lucas may make some pea-brained choices at some times, but he otherwise avoids many problems by simply "not going there." Star Wars has so many stories to tell, but he basically puts his story in and leaves the rest to be filled or speculated upon. And that, my friends, is one of the many great things about Star Wars!

 

"He's constantly adding erroneous facts and details for the benefit of the fans (no one else would notice or care). Twenty years separate the two trilogies, and there are understandable differences."

Sorry, but I don't think you need to read Lucas's interviews to understand Star Wars. If you do read him, understand that he has a different interpretation than you, a fan, does. He has to, as he has led a very different life from you. If you support his interpretation of the events of the film over your own interpretation, then you aren't really thinking about what is happenning in the films. You need to decide for yourself what is happenning onscreen; you shouldn't need to be told.

Plus, articles and interviews are never complete. Your interpretation, if it is based on those interviews, will be coloured by the editorial choices that decide what will and won't be included in interviews.

 

I think this thread is snowballing into a pt basher thread.

Something to remember is that, while Lucas may have an idea as to what caused the events that set the gffa to were it is now, it is ridiculous to expect him to know exactly what would happen, and to hold him to these basic ideas. While I do not agree w/ everything that has happened in the pt, it doesn't mean that I don't enjoy the saga as a whole. I like all 5 star wars movies. I go in w/ a level of suspended disbelief, and leave w/ a sense of enjoyment and entertainment.

 

This thread started as a PT basher, Ghost. So Lucas doesnt explain it the way this guy wants to hear it, so its " erroneous ". Stop.

EDIT: Doesnt he admit himself in the extended version of the documentary that the only thing that was constant and stayed from the early days was the father and son angle?

 

"So they decided to call him "The Chosen One" and say he had the largest "midichlorian" count ever, to make him more of a badass."

Personally, I've been greatly disappointed by the prequel trilogy so far. In terms of story, character development, imagination, and so forth, it's been a huge disappointment and I usually don't take sides against the bashers. However, the one part about the prequel trilogy that I think gets a rather unfair turn is the midichlorian development. My reasoning unfolds as follows.

Quite a few people deride this development as a weakening of the mystical nature of the series. I disagree with this assertion. Why? In the OT, it was firmly established that great Force sensitivity was a trait passed down through the Skywalker family. In order to account for this, you would need a physical link in the chain. Given this, I think that the midichlorian issue is a very rare thing in the PT--it actually augments an aspect of the original story.

 

Please keep away from PT bashing. Although I'll admit to enjoying PT bashing, that's not what this thread is about. An example of the kind of stuff I mean is this...


After Vader kills Ben in ANH, he steps on the robe, checking for something. We all know that when Jedi Masters die, their bodies fade away. It was even demonstrated in RoTJ, when Yoda dies. So why did Vader step on Ben's robe? Did he think he'd turned in to a frog? No. Lucas simply didn't have all the details worked out. And that's fine. As long as he doesn't come up with some after-the-fact explanation for it.

 

>>>>After Vader kills Ben in ANH, he steps on the robe, checking for something. We all know that when Jedi Masters die, their bodies fade away. It was even demonstrated in RoTJ, when Yoda dies. So why did Vader step on Ben's robe? Did he think he'd turned in to a frog? No. Lucas simply didn't have all the details worked out. And that's fine. As long as he doesn't come up with some after-the-fact explanation for it.


>>>>We all know that when Jedi Masters die, their bodies fade away.

Wrong.
It was clear when Obi Wan died that Vader didn't expect his body to disappear, from the fact he was apparently "checking for something." And I think from his "more powerful than you could possibly imagine" statement, that Obi Wan knew that Vader didn't know what was going to happen.

Some fans thought that all Jedi disappeared when they died. Some fans though that anyone who got hit by a lightsaber disappeared. Turns out that disappearing is something special.

There's plenty of details which have clearly been worked out "after the event" (eg. I don't believe for a moment that Boba Fett was supposed to be the genetic source of all the Stormtroopers- although I do believe that Stormtroopers were always supposed to be clones.) But I don't think that this is one of them.

 

Your explanation is itself a rationalization.

 

Mmm.

 

It's obvious to me that GL has stretched the truth from time to time about what he has had planned all along, and what he made up on the spot. But he has always been honest about treating the films like a painting rather than a photograph - an organic rather than static piece of art.

So it doesn't matter what versions of the films existed in the past. And it doesn't matter what could have been included in the films but was cut or never filmed. And it doesn't even matter what George Lucas says about the process. The only thing that matters is that the whole thing works when you watch it, as it is. And it does!