RE: Forest of the Sith: Social Thread v3.0

The first Matrix film was okay... nothing earth-shattering, and certainly nothing original...

The other two... sheesh... I'll bet it'll be a long time before the Wachowskis are trusted with another movie... talk about flushing all our expectations...

 

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*KERWHAM*

:::stares at broken legs:::


Yup, I'm lame.

 

The Matrix films were good. Every damn one of them.

Right, because there only WAS one of them, followed by two feature-length FX reels.

Which were entertaining as FX reels, but stupendously bad as films.

We've been through this all before.

M. Scott

 

Paladin ... that was lame.

 

What I find is that most people want to lose weight, but don't know when to stop. I came across a site (click) that I found useful. You can use it to find find out what your BMI (Body Mass Index) is. Try it out. Anything over 25 and you should start jogging. Anything under 20 and it's a trip to McDonalds for you!!!

 

Man, I'm gone for 8 hours and the new social thread is already on to page 3.

Third Page!

 

Page three and we're already having a Matrix debate??

/gets ready

 

Actually, this is page two, if you have your computer set the way I do.

 

If I may reccomend a plan...try "Body For Life". It is amazing with results that are good for life. Adkins will cause you to loose weight, but the end result is harmful to the body. I completed the Body for Life and now do my best to continue the path.

As for the Matrix films, have the brothers ever commented on how bad they were (save the first one of course)

 

In other news, I just finished reading Ender's Game. Quite a good book, the end was interesting, but I didn't completely fall into Card's style (thought it was a little self-indulgent at times, other times vague almost to the point of wondering why he'd bothered writing anything at all), and I don't know if the end was interesting ENOUGH to warrant my pickup up "Speaker for the Dead", but we'll give it a little more time to sink in. There were a couple of "whoa" moments that I really appreciated (when we discover that Ender did not just maim but in fact killed both Stilson and Bonzo, a revelation we don't get until 2/3 into the book, that was a "whoa", and so artfully revealed), but other things were kind of weak.

Alai the Ally, for example. Liked the character but the name was a little blunt. I also figured out that the supposed sims against the buggers were the actual strikes against the buggers from the very first sim. Ender's supposed to be a genius, how come he didn't see it before me?

I did like the fact that Card knows and acknowledges his sci-fi roots. The ansible communicator came directly out of Ursula LeGuin's "Left Hand of Darkness" (Graff mentions how someone dug the word out of an old book, if you recall; that's the book), another landmark in sci-fi literature.

As it goes though, I would NEVER want to see an Ender's Game movie. The story takes place so much in the mental and psychological worlds of the characters that it would be next to impossible to communicate it onscreen. Additionally, the book pretty much glosses over everything and fits almost 8 years of story into the pages -- shooting up to almost 20 years all told by the end. Plus you're dealing with children, starting at six years old. And the fantasy game would be next to impossible to justify in a film -- and you HAVE to do it for the payoff at the end.

The only way to do an Ender's Game movie would be to boil it down to the key ingredients (a genius child being trained to fight by playing combat games) and rebuild the story from there. There would be an outcry that it was a terrible adaptation of a great book, and they'd be right. I don't think Ender's Game could be made into a movie without destroying it. Even to make it a really good movie, you'd have to ruin the book to do it, and sci-fi fans don't tend to accept that.

I think any attempt to adapt Ender's Game will suffer the same way that Dune has always suffered -- operating as it does under similar problems (most of the book is mental in nature).

Good read, though.

EDIT: As for the Matrix films, have the brothers ever commented on how bad they were

Supposedly they don't want to discuss the films, preferring to let them speak for themselves.

I believe that they simply know they couldn't answer any questions asked of them and are too ashamed of what they did to such a potentially brilliant story to show their faces in public.

M. Scott

 

I absolutely adore that book.

That is all.

-Paul

 

Have the brothers ever commented on how bad they were?

Apparently, Andy Wachowski told Bernard White (Rama Kandra) at the Revolutions premiere not to have "high expectations".

I admit the last two weren't as good as the first. I think that when directing two big, complicated movies at once, it's hard to tell how good or bad they're each going to be. It would be difficult to tell when you need a new scene here or rewrite scene X.

Also, it looks like they used a different film stock on the first movie. It's more grainy (read: better) than the "requels" as Dorkman puts it.

 

I agree with Dorkman on that. I enjoyed Enders game as well, but have not read any others by Card.

I just finished "Order of the Pheonix" by JK Rowling. Has anyone read these books? To be quite honest, they are simply fantastic! I'm looking forward to June 4th.

 

I didn't know I would start something like this when I posted that link to the guy with the Tron costume.

I just checked my BMI. It was 25.6. I have been slacking to much! It's not very much. But it's to much so I have to fix that. And I will.

And I liked The Matrix. The other two is another story...

 

OK, said this in the last social thread... will say it again here (if nothing else to disagree with Dorkman -- haven't done that enough this week ).

I actually loved Matrix:Revolutions (mostly)! I liked the story arch and how it ended. The outcome of the whole thing I though was decent. Now as a full movie there are several things I would take out or rearrange etc. for my own liking.

Only thing that bugged me was alot of the philosophical crap that was thrown in and ended up having no bearing on the movie one bit.

Either way, again... gimme Reloaded and Revolutions cut together into one 2 1/2 - 3 hr (at the most) flick, I'm right as rain!

 

The Harry Potter series is pure genius. And I don't use that term often, and never without meaning it. It's probably one of the best and most original mythologies to have been created in the last 30 years -- which is somewhat ironic, as it's created mostly from existing mythologies.

I've been a fan since just after Goblet of Fire was published, and the third book is my favorite, and looks to have been done brilliantly by Cuaron. I'm really looking forward to it.

EDIT: You know, that comment from Andy not to have high expectations means that perhaps I should take some of the heat off the brothers.

What I think the problem is, is the Wachowskis spent years, maybe even the better part of their adult lives, conceiving, designing, and plotting the story that eventually became the script that eventually became the Matrix.

That was a smash hit, and they were bullied with praise into rushing into immediate production on sequels that I do NOT believe they had ever planned beyond a vague outline (one which most likely was comprised mostly of "scenes we want to do" as opposed to an actual story arc). What we got was two films that felt more like they were made by fans of the original Matrix, who knew what they liked but didn't know why, than the creators of the Matrix tale who knew the ins and outs of that universe and could give us cool action and fascinating philosophy without either of them feeling forced, which the requels were rife with. Fighting for no reason, then sitting down and talking about things that changed nothing of the storyline.

But I guess if they know they blew it, maybe I should cut them some slack.

I liked the story arch and how it ended. The outcome of the whole thing I though was decent.

This is an honest question. Not sarcastic:

You actually enjoyed the ending making the entire series and all the battles between man and machine essentially irrelevant?

M. Scott

 

What about "Enter The Matrix" the game? It's a good game, but it didn't raise the bar or anything. I just wish they put the movie footage in the DVD.

 

Possibly spoilers (EDIT: for Ender's Game, the posts posted while I was writing this make it ambiguous):

The problem I have with the fake simulations is that THE BACK COVER OF THE BOOK GIVES IT AWAY!

The Planet of the Apes DVD has the same problem. Gah.

 

I really hope POA is good, I didn't care for the last two (and I love the books). It felt like no one even cared if it was good, there didn't seem to be any passion whatsoever in the film making, as opposed to the Lord of the Rings movies. Plus I think it's stupid to start turning a book series into movies when the book series isn't even completed.

 

I agree, and I think that this film will really show some true potential of the actors as they are more mature now.

As for the books, genius is a good word to use. Personally my favorite is the "Goblet of Fire". I think it dealt more with the darker side of Harry. But the darkest of all the books was indeed the last one.

Does anyone have any idea as to when the 6th will be out? For that matter, are they going to make 7 movies?

Dorkman, again I agree with you about the most original story lines too. To me, this is close to the imagination of Tolkien. I'm not comparing the stories to anyone who thinks I am crazy for saying that...I'm stating that the originality of the work is undeniable. Like the Silmarillion, the stories both have deep pasts and are explicit in detail.

 

I read Ender's Game 5 years ago and I loved it. I have yet to read any of the other books in the series because, from what I've heard of them, they aren't something I'd be interested in reading. If I remember correctly, the books actually go on to follow Ender's brother, and not Ender. And as for the movie, Dorkman, you might be interested to know that around the time that I read the book, "they" were actually developing a movie, set to star Haley "I see dead people" Joel Osment. I guess it never got off the ground...

-DeadEyesSmiling

 

Sixth book is up to Rowling. Hopefully soon, but I know she can deliver so no rush.

Columbus abdicated the director's chair feeling that the story from the third film on took a turn for which he would not be the best choice for director. However, he has stated that if it comes to it, if no one else steps to the plate, he will return to the director's chair to ensure that all 7 films get made.

Personally I'm kind of hoping for MORE than 7 films, so that they'll split some of the longer ones and really tell the story properly. The success of Kill Bill will hopefully make them feel comfortable with that. They're already taking a pretty big risk with filming 4 before 3 has even been released, which says to me that WB is willing to take the risk and go the distance.

EDIT: As for Ender's game, check out this news on AICN from not two months ago:

Clickie.

Wolfgang "Troy" Petersen directing a screenplay drafted by Card himself, and then the X2 writers. Maybe I'll have to eat my words on it never working. Especially when Card acknowledges that "trying to put everything in would make a lousy movie."

Everything depends on the script. And if there's a team that can make it work for the screen, it's got a good chance of being this one. Apparently it involves elements of Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow (which is Ender's Game told from Bean's perspective -- I think I want to read that book, I loved Bean), which combined make a very strong film whose outline has excited both Petersen and the WB execs.

Something to keep an eye on, I think.

M. Scott

 

I thought Columbus stopped cause he never saw his kids.
Probably both reasons.

 

Well, whatever happens if they keep to what they have been doing...it will only get better for the films.

May 9th on ABC a 10 minute program of POA.

What about Roger Zelazny's books. I read the "Amber" chronicles and wish to anything someone woould make those into a film.

 

This is an honest question. Not sarcastic:

You actually enjoyed the ending making the entire series and all the battles between man and machine essentially irrelevant?

Actually yes! The ending did not make the battles between man and machine irrelavent. It balanced out the equation. The problem was the remainder of a gajillion mathematical equations that resulted in "The One" being a systemic anomoly of the matrix itself. When that anomoly was removed, then the system went back to functioning correctly as it had before.

The only way to get rid of the anomoly is to balance out the equation. Smith was the balancing of the equation. As Neo grew in strength, so did Smith (by replicating himself) or was it vice versa..? Sort of like Norton AntiVirus growing and taking over your computer to combat a virus that was completely taking over.

In the end, THIS time around was obviously much different than the last time "The One" manifested. True, it didn't show THE END OF MACHINE AND REDOMINATION OF MAN, but who cares? I thought it was a great story and I liked that it left us where it did. The knowledge that "The One" would be back when the time is right and possibly next time he would take it all.

I frankly have gotten tired of happy tearful endings to movies and thought the way Revolutions ended was a definite depart from "the machine" if you will .
Just my 2 cents.