RE: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana(A major solution to social and economic problems

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Darth_Destructo, Oct 30, 2001.

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  1. Gutter_Monkey Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2001
    star 3
    Did you know that Jhon Ashcroft supports a preposed bill that would make it so that financal aid for college is deinyed to someone who got cought smokeing pot, but not to convicted murderers?

    Backwards, just backwards.
  2. Dacks Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2001
    star 2
    "You smoke Pot and you want it legal."

    READ SOME OF MY POSTS.

    Since you are obviously too lazy to do so, I'll sum up my position just for you.

    I am against legalization. I have said so more than once. In fact, if you skip back about, oh say ONE PAGE, you'll find me rattling off about twenty reasons why I think pot is worse than cigarettes for today's youth, and another twenty for why I think it should stay illegal.

    I am for decriminalization of casual pot-smokers. Why? Because I don't think it is fair that somebody should get a criminal record for smoking up, which harms nobody else. Note, I am not for decriminalization of drug dealers, for the very reason that they are sometimes involved in more dangerous crimes.

    So, if you really had read my posts, you would have seen this; It's my very first one, it's only one page back:

    I'm not for legalization, but I'm for decriminalization. (at least for casual smokers, not necessarily for dealers)

    It is militant extremists (on both sides) like you who make issues like this hard to debate. All I have to do is critisize one anti-drug advertisement for abusively playing off the emotions of Americans post 9/11, and immediately the nay-sayers assume I'm a heavy druggy all pro-legalization.

    PS Beefcake, I've never paid a dime for the weed I've smoked, so there isn't even a money trail.
  3. MASTER_JEDI_BEEFCAKE Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 2
    Good then we are in agreement about one thing. I agree in a decriminalization of drug users to an extent. I believe if your caught smoking Pot at least that it should be a fine, not jail time and it shouldn't go on your record. However MULTIPLE offenses should eventually go on your record since you haven't kicked the problem. However if it is Crack or Heroin your busted and put in jail and it goes on your record. I think if you caught smoking pot then you should go into a MANDATORY drug treatment program.

    The problem with completely saying oh you just did some Pot, is that Pot is the ultimate gateway drug to worse drugs. Why not send the message loud and clear right when it begins that your FUTURE is put in limbo because of you doing a controled substance.

    "Because I don't think it is fair that somebody should get a criminal record for smoking up, which harms nobody else"

    Proof of this statement. It can harm other people. Ever heard of driving under the influence of Pot. Kind of like driving drunk. Not to mention if pot is being smoked and there are those around who don't smoke yet must breath in second hand smoke to Pot which is even worse than cigarette smoke then your hurting someone then. Don't forget those mood swings I talked about either.

    By the way I'm not some militant. I just know RIGHT FROM WRONG. Stop assuming. I was wrong for not going back to the previous page to see you were for decriminalization of Pot instead of legalization, but I know the reason why. You just don't want a criminal record when your eventually caught. I for one could care less, because I wouldn't sink so low to do that crap. I would rather kill myself by shooting myself in the head. I would be too ashamed to go on living. That is how strong I feel about ever using that stuff. I might as well die, because that stuff will kill me slowly instead of quickly.

    I apologize but I entered this debate 7 pages in. However I picked up on your comments early on saying that the antidrug.com add you didn't like. I for one loved it because it spells out exactly what is wrong with doing drugs. I've been on the site and would urge you to at least look at what they have.

    It's wrong to do drugs, and it's wrong to think it should be made legal. I've seen the low life scum who use this stuff, and I've seen that most crimes involving Robberies, car jackings, stealing is all a result of someone supporting their nasty drug habit.

    As for Mr. John Ascroft I don't mind that bill. You know why. I'm not eligable for FA and I could certainly use it most of the time. However my family makes JUST enough for me not to be eligible. Now the thing is that students use those FA in some cases not on school and education but other things. One of those things is drugs, so I say just like if your not making the grade that your FA should be stripped from you, because we don't know what your purchasing with that money given.

    Hell I knew somone who got FA, and two scholarships and he used the FA to put down a downpayment on a entertainment center. Wasteful spending. That is why I say if you get this money it goes right into the university bank or account you have and you cannot touch it. It goes for tuition and books and housing. That is it.

  4. Dacks Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2001
    star 2
    Okay. Well now at least we should have a good idea of where the other is coming from.

    So here are some of the problems I have with your last post:

    Gateway drug. It's true, a lot of drug users who go on to do heavy drugs probably tried marijuana first. But then again, they probably tried alcholol or cigarettes before that. I would lump all three of these together as "gateway drugs", and so, why should two of them be legal and not the other? (That is, if the gateway reason was the only reason.)

    Harm to others. I believe that Pot, of the three "drugs" I mentionned above, is the least dangerous to others. First of all, second-hand smoke is not as big an issue because nobody smokes as many j's a day as cigarettes. The "driving" point is a valid one, however, and I actually have pointed it out earlier. In this case, though, why not simply prosecute "high driving" the way you prosecute "drunk driving" and similar infractions? I'm more against legalization because of the effect it has on the user, not on others.

    The paragraph starting with By the way I'm not some militant. You're correct, I do want it decriminalized because I don't want a criminal record if I get caught. But it's also because I think the law is unfair. I have broken other laws, but do not think they should be decriminalized. Again, this has to do with the fact that if you're smoking weed responsibly, you're not harming others. As for your comment of "rather killing yourself than smoking the stuff". If that's how you feel that's how you feel. But if you say that, than please tell me that you have never smoked a cigarette or drank alcohol, because both of these will "kill you slowly" as well.

    I'd be hesitant to call all people who use this stuff "low-life-scum. Maybe that's just a bit of ambiguity in your post. However, if you do think we're all low-life-scum, specify it, but be prepared for a long argument.

    I have no clue what the FA thing is, I'm Canadian. Maybe someone can fill me in, I'm curious.

    Finally, the antidrug.com ad. First I have a problem with how misleading the commercial is. As I've said, you could also make a case that anybody who uses gasoline is contributing to a nation that indirectly supports the production of drugs (South America, Mexico, Middle-East) because these nations obviously don't crack down on production nearly as hard as they should.

    But mainly, my problem is that even if everything they said was true, I think it was a cheap and immoral trick on the part of the government. At the time, the nation was very very sensitive about terrorists for obvious reasons. A lot of Americans were angry and had no way to directly fight back. The government was trying to channel this anger against drugs, using an emotionally sensitive issue for their own political agenda. If the ad had been put out a few years ago, I would still say it is misleading, but I thought it was an insult to the American population to put it just months after 9/11 and during a peak pro-america, anti-terrorist weekend (the super bowl).

    Anyway, I won't be back on this board for a few days, exams, so don't rush your reply.
  5. Waning Drill Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 1999
    star 5
    If it's grown in Virginia, they don't have a problem with it. But if it's grown in Columbia or Afghanistan, it's illegal.
  6. Dath_BigGAME Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2001
    star 2
    It is not a gateway. Here is why it seems to be. Alot of the weed you buy on the street is really low quality. Believe me I know. Since THC is a fat soluable NUTRIENT that the plant uses, it stores in your body. This is why it takes so long for you to pass a drug test. After a while of building tolerence, and having such poor quality stuff, it gets real hard and expensive to get high. People tend to move on to stuff that for x dollars, they now they can get high. This is things like x, crack, so forth. I have never tried anything other than pot, because I can afford enough to keep my happy. Many people cannot. If it were legal though, you could get better quality, and as long as you can afford the good stuff, you don't need anything else.
  7. MASTER_JEDI_BEEFCAKE Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 2
    While I agree with you that yes people move on to bigger and more dangerous things to get high, because the quality of your pot isn't any good anymore.

    That is not a valid excuse to make it legal. First off you shouldn't be doing it at all. Second there is no reason to get high in the first place. So it's not a valid excuse to say well if we had high quality pot then all would be well. Sorry, but no.
  8. Dath_BigGAME Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2001
    star 2
    I am free, single, and over 21...who are you to say that I "SHOULDN'T" do it? Who made you my morallity judge?

    There is no good reason?

    Did you read my post a couple pages back? I bet you think that gays shouldn't adopt and teen girls that have been raped should not have the choice to abort. Are you prejuduce? Are you so close minded that you believe you know what's best for everybody dispite the situation at hand? I have my free will and my own choices to make. That is the right of every American.
  9. MASTER_JEDI_BEEFCAKE Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 2
    Good then when you get caught have fun in jail. Lots of luck to you.


    Oh and another thing. Don't assume my positions on other things. For the record I'm all for a womans right to choose, and especially in that case where someone was raped then yes do it, and when they find the rapist then have his balls cut off and shoved down his throat until he choaks. Also though I don't agree with the gay lifesyle I could honestly care less, so my advice to you is get your foot out of your mouth. People shouldn't do drugs period. The fact of the matter is that they are illegal and if you want to risk going to jail then fine. Go right on ahead, but there is no logic behind doing drugs at all. Your problems are not going to be solved by taking any kind of drug like Pot, Crack, Herion, Alcohol, or cigarettes. They will only make the solution more complex and harder to find. I don't here about this "Well people need to cut loose." Fine cut loose mowing the lawn or build a damn model. Do something constructive not destructive to yourself and to your family. Just ask the head singer of Alice and Chains, oh wait that's right he's dead, and they didn't find him for two weeks after he died.

    I will leave it at this. "I think you should go home and re-think your life." Obiwan.
  10. Dacks Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2001
    star 2
    "Live and let live."

    Beef, this is a discussion about marijuana. You're not going to see many of us argue that crack and heroin isn't bad.

    Anyone ever been to Amsterdam? I have, and they seem to be doing alright.

    Stay chill, boys. One more exam and then I'm gonna smoke a fat J to celebrate.
  11. Kesel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 11, 1999
    star 4
    On salon.com they recently had an article about drug testing at high schools. Since marijuana stays in a person's body for almost a month, teenagers have started drinking more. If you get drunk on Friday night, the alcohol will be out of your system by Monday and the tests will be negative. So drug testing is leading some students to drinking as apposed to smoking marijuana. Believe me, alcohol is a lot worse for someone than pot.
  12. Saint_of_Killers Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 5
    There's a whole lotta ignorance in here. Screw this, I'm gonna go smoke a blunt. :D
  13. Waning Drill Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 1999
    star 5
    Alcohol + marijuana = deadly
  14. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    alcohol+marijuana= party time
  15. Dath_BigGAME Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2001
    star 2
    ciggerettes=deadly
    alchohol=deadly
    breathing=deadly
    driving=deadly
    computer monitot radiation=deadly
    sun light=deadly
    cold=deadly

    depending on the point of view you take...everything is deadly...so what-it's my life

    do you honestly believe that this plant has been here since the Creation, and no ever used it until 1960? What are you thinking? I bet Plato and Leonardo drew alot of creativity from it.

    don't believe everything you hear...the government is famous for spreading untrue propoganda to serve their own purpose...

    EDIT: passes one to SOF and SLEAZO...it's 4:20 somewhere in the world right?
  16. Cailina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 4
    Your problems are not going to be solved by taking any kind of drug like Pot, Crack, Herion, Alcohol, or cigarettes. They will only make the solution more complex and harder to find.

    Eh most people I know who smoke weed would disagree with you and say after smoking weed they are calmer and more able to sort out their problems.

    Just ask the head singer of Alice and Chains, oh wait that's right he's dead, and they didn't find him for two weeks after he died.

    Ouch, that was just mean to people who are mourning. In fact, I'd say it's borderline trolling...I wonder where Kessel is...and unless you have new info, on saturday I read that they don't know that he died from Heroine or something else. And Heroine is a lot worse than pot.
  17. MASTER_JEDI_BEEFCAKE Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 2
    "Ouch, that was just mean to people who are mourning. In fact, I'd say it's borderline trolling...I wonder where Kessel is...and unless you have new info, on saturday I read that they don't know that he died from Heroine or something else. And Heroine is a lot worse than pot."

    Get over this trolling crap please. That was not trolling. That is not being mean. Unfortuanately he is now a statistic because of the crap that people love to defend as harmless. The FACT of the matter is that people start slow or quick depending on the person when it comes to drugs. Start smoking cigarette, then introduced to Pot, then move on the next thing which is worse. So why not attack the problem from the source. This Pot is good thing is complete BS. I'm pointing out a FACT. He is dead as a result of years of a substance abuse problem. I'm stating facts now if that is too hard for you to see or realize then too bad. This is exactly where drugs will leave you Calina. So go get an administrator I don't really care, because it's obvious the truth hurts when it does hit home with those of you who know, repect and like, like Staley. Snap back into to the real world because this is exactly what happens when Drugs rule your life, instead of you ruling yourself. It's a hard fact, but people should not only mourn his loss, but learn from his loss that any drug is not the freaking answer.

    "Eh most people I know who smoke weed would disagree with you and say after smoking weed they are calmer and more able to sort out their problems"

    Yeah they feel calm and relaxed because that is the way it makes your body feel, however in REALITY your body is going very fast, and your blood presure and heart are going through the roof. So sure they will say whatever and keep deluding themselves into thinking that no harm can come of it, when in REALITY they are harming themselves.
  18. Kessel Runner Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 1999
    star 6
    Everyone needs to bring this down a notch. There is no need for anyone to start getting personal. Inflammatory language, especially on the Senate Floor, is not allowed.


    As for drugs never doing any good, but only making things worse. I can tell you with very strong anecdotal evidence, marijuana does have very positive side effects for the ill. Whether it be chronic pain, AIDS, even migraines, it can do wonders.
  19. Cailina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 4
    Unfortuanately he is now a statistic because of the crap that people love to defend as harmless.

    He was addicted to Heroine(and we don't know that that's what he died of), and no one has defended Heroine as harmless.

    Start smoking cigarette, then introduced to Pot, then move on the next thing which is worse. So why not attack the problem from the source.

    It's already been stated in this thread that pot is not a gateway drug.

    So go get an administrator I don't really care, because it's obvious the truth hurts when it does hit home with those of you who know, repect and like, like Staley. Snap back into to the real world because this is exactly what happens when Drugs rule your life, instead of you ruling yourself. It's a hard fact, but people should not only mourn his loss, but learn from his loss that any drug is not the freaking answer.

    I am in the real world, and I'd point out that bad things happen when you let anything rule your life instead of you ruling yourself. However, the way in which you stated that about Staley is callous and provacative.
  20. MASTER_JEDI_BEEFCAKE Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 2
    Provacative how? I'm using a current event to show how dangerous drugs are. Duh!!! The same if I point out Chris Farelly or John Belushi. Or how about River Phoenix? How many names must I MENTION, before it dawns on everyone that drugs are killers. Pot may not be a potent or dangerous as Crack or Heroin, but it is bought from the same people who sell the Crack and Heroin.

    Legalizing it will not do one bit of good in trying to keep people from using it. All your doing is giving in to spoil the child. Yeah sure the first step might be legalizing Pot, well how about the next step of legalizing Crack or Heroin? If you start giving in then more will want other things to be legal. Sure it's been proven to keep some people suffering from SERIOUS medical problems at ease with pain, however it should not be consumed by the public. We already have a bad enough problem with Drug fraud already in the U.S. with pain killers like Lodin, or Codine, or xanex. People do smash and grab jobs on drug stores for this stuff. The same will happen if you make Pot legal. The government will tax the hell out of it and not make so cheap like everyone thinks it will be. Then you have the lazy pot heads who don't work who need their pot and will rob and steal to get it. So your not solving any problems by legalizing Pot. You will have ever joe blow coming in with fake perscriptions asking for Pot and stuff. Sorry but no thanks.
  21. Kessel Runner Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 1999
    star 6
    Beefcake, you just crossed the line. That "Duh" comment is a blatant personal flame. EVERYONE, stop addressing these comments, or this thread will be locked. Going back and forth on a flame and/or troll just escalates things. MOve on to the next subject.
  22. epic Ex Mod / RSA

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 1999
    star 7
    I like the green dessert.
  23. epic Ex Mod / RSA

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 1999
    star 7
    I like the green dessert.
  24. Humble extra Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 1999
    star 5
    i also like jelly, green jelly
  25. DarthPhelps Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2002
    star 5
    Yes, Lime Jell-O is delicious. I also enjoy a tasty lemon-lime Mr. Freeze at Dairy Queen. Mmmmmm.
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