Discussion in 'Milwaukee, WI' started by jedihexer, May 15, 2002.
Force thingy: I don't think they ever mentioned a loss of the force or a weakening of the force but Mace did say the ability to /use/ the force is diminished. And when Yoda is talking to Palpy he said something to the effect that the future is clouded or his vision is clouded by the darkside. I sort of get the impression that the stronger the darkside becomes the less folks using the lightside. Sort of like a tug of war, at some point the darkside starts sucking up (for lack of a better description) the lightside which is why Ani/Vader brings balance back to the force.
Wedding Thingy: Glad the wedding scene wasn't huge. The idea that I'm getting is that it was done in private and quietly. Painless, she is a senator and he is a Padawan who the hell has time to worry about china patterns and I most certainly don't want to watch it.
Shadow on Lars hut: Looks likes Vader, there is no other good reason to make that shot since they could have showed them hugging instead of their shadows.
Button thingy: You all spend WAY too much time looking for this stuff.
Next Movie: My opinion of the next movie? No opinion, not even going to think about it much. Lucas isn't going to tell us everything we want to know, he's just going to tell us what we need to know.
Ok I know I'm new, but I feel forced to speak out against a dying breed of individual. The Star Wars movie you are talking about is not "that" good. I'm sorry to say it, but really it's just the effect of the movie industry putting out a bunch of bad, and by bad I mean terrible, down right putrid really, movie in the last season or two of movie going. AND NOW BECAUSE OF IT, we're starved for a movie that we can again fall in love with! This is not it people. Ok, if all you're really looking for here is a video game played out on the big screen, this movie was great, but please keep an open mind here... there really wasn't a plot in this movie to speak of. The bitter truth is that Lucas is carrying himself through these movies off the old ones. He's not making any real revelations, nor is he expanding any ground. He's simply putting out a mediocore product in order to get your money (again). Please re-view the movie and look at it as a piece of a story, and not just eye candy. I understand that this means that I will recieve a lot of flaming for this, but I honestly have to agree with the majority of Zepo's comments, and he's not being too nit picky. He is simply holding the movie up to "reasonable" standards. These new movies will never be anything close to the originals, nor should they be. The originals made you excited as a child, these movies make you want to see the next one (if that). They don't inspire, they entertain (barely). Just please dont' let your standards sink so far as to let yourself except this kind of bad movie making from George or anyoen else.
Thank you for your ear, and yes, I probably have whatever you give me coming.
The use of the word "people" to address a collection of individuals is outlawed.
My view on the "Vader Shadow" is this, not that many of you care, but I digress. There's obviously a reason the shot is framed in such a way, you're supposed to look at the shadow. That would lead one to conclude that there must be something about that shadow worth looking at. Some people see Vader, some don't. I think that's the whole point....at this point in the film, Anakin has begun to turn from his "light side" self into Vader. I think the shadow is reflecting this....not quite 100% Anakin, and not quite 100% Darth yet, either. I think the shadow is more a reflection of his inner self than his physical body....showing the transition going on inside him, from Anakin to Vader.
That's my theory. Destroy it as you see fit.
I can dig that.
I won't destroy that. Espicially since I think you're right.
Elaborating on my earlier post... What if Syfo Diaz was Qui-Gon Jinn?
(I had forgotten how many people died in TPM.)
i think all of 7 died in thpm it may have been 8 if you coun't that exploding naboo fighter.
yes i am very very very very bitter fan when it comes to tpm
sifo dyas is jinn?
i dont think he would go against the council.
thx jedi kiss rock
"Do not go against the Council, Master. Not again."
I've seen it twice and did not really see Vader's shadow on Tat, nor the resemblence in Padme's wedding veil. I looked real hard, but for me it isn't there.
As far as Ep3 goes, I think there is almost too much to sum up in just one movie. Think of what has to happen:
Clonetroopers -> Stormtroopers
End of Clone Wars*
Creation of the Empire
Yoda and other Jedi into hiding
Padme and Anakin have twins, but they are hidden from Anakin (or at least Leia is)
Padme either leaves or dies (Leia does say her real mother died in ROTJ, Padme was "kind, but sad", probably from losing Anakin)*
Truth About Shimi*
Anakin Flips Out (probably because of Padme)
Anakin vs Obi-Wan and Anakin loses(possibility of being the best lightsaber duel ever)*
Anakin donning the Vader Suit
Obi-Wan takes the Twins and spilts them up*
Obi-Wan into hiding on Tatoine
A connection to Qui-Gon (Lucas put his voice in AOTC for a reason)
More of Boba's hatred for Jedi
All the things with the *s by them are major points, and the other things need to weave around them. I just don't see all that wrapping neatly into 2.5 hours. I can only hope and wait 3 years.
You know something? I don't think Padme has to necessarily die in III. I think she has to betray Anakin or deny him. Death is too simple and the anger burns too fast. (*see the death of Shmi). Betrayal however, will burn long and hot. The ultimate "She's a politician and is not to be trusted" deal. Who knows..
If Padme left, Anakin would mercilously pursue her and his children. He's a person who attaches himself greatly to others, and when they leave (Shimi), he goes nuts.
We still need (in no specific order) to kill off all the jedi, send yoda and Obi Wan into hiding, have Palpatine ascend to emperor (not too far from it now), give birth to the twins and hide them, explain why Anakin/Vader can't sense/find Luke or Leia in said hiding places,kill off Dooku, find out what happens to Padme, and, what I'm personally still waiting for, find out just why it is that Qui Gon's body never disappeared after his death (I'm sure that's been covered hypothetically by several of you guys years ago, but I wasn't here then).
I know lots of this can be explained in the next film's opening "crawl", and maybe most of it doesn't need to be covered at all because it can be inferred from the ongoing storyline. I'm just saying it would satisfy me to cover these things. Sorry, but I'm a stickler for details..
Oh, and by the way, I hadn't read the previous post when I wrote this, so pardon the repetition of "things we need".
A couple of random thoughts:
A) D-Man - why do you think there has to be another reference in III to Qui Gon? I could see something similar to "No Anakin No" but not much more than that.
B) Another reason that SW is cool: NO OPENING CREDITS!
C) In the AOTC book, the Qui Gon "No Anakin!" sequence is said to Anakin, and "overheard" by Yosa who is "probing" the dark side of the force looking for clues as to what is going on. In the book Yoda is confused when he hears Qui Gon's voice. He says "It is impossible for a jedi to retain his consciousness once he becomes one with the force". Perhaps the "fading away" thing is a power not yet known by the jedi. Yes, I know, books are not canon, but AOTC is as close as you can get.
D) Perhaps Anakin is not obsessed with Padme because of his own "faults" but because of the force. In order for his destiny to come true, he needs to have a kid, and the force is "drawing" him to Padme.
E)I am also a bit concerned about the scope of episode III. Consider the following:
1) It is known that we will see Padme pregant - at least I saw in an interview where she said as much.
2) We will also see Vader turn to the dark side.
3) We will see the twins get hidden.
4) Leia remebers her mother as "beautiful but sad...".
5) Vader knows (at the most) of 1 of his kids, definately not 2.
The key here is number 4. Assuming (rather generously) that a child can have a fuzzy memory last until adulthood once they reach 2 years, the timeframe episode II would have to encompass is way too big. I would guess that Lucas will "ignore" Leia's comments in ROTJ and have Padme give up the kids while they are babies. The only other option would be "2 years pass" segway in the middle of the film, or one of those frozen frame "whatever became of" narratived at the end of III. ?
Another thing to consider is that Anakin cannot be present for the birth and probably for a majority of Padme's pregnancy since she would obviously tell him she was having twins. Yes, you could argue that she doesn't know until they're born. Regardless, Anakin will have to be at least "away" from Padme, or more likely already turned when the twins are born.
...but then Luke's long lost brother Biggs comes back, only find his wife slept with Luke and she now has brain clusters....
As The SW World Turns
Edits: Had to get hat damn face right.
Also along thoes line and even more intriguing is Luke?s line on dagobah:
"Still, there is something familiar about this place, like something out of a dream"
He could be talking about his vision on hoth but i don' think so
Interesting - could he have been there with Yoda before going to tatooine?
It could also be explained as the force drawinging him to the place he needed to be in ESB and having the illusion of familiarity.
The whole thing could also easily be ignored by Lucas.
Love your signature BWing!
Perhaps Lucas plans on getting around Leia's ROTJ quote about her mom this way: Padme gives L&L up early, and Leia is raised by someone who she thought was her mother, but really wasn't. Maybe one of her handmaidens. (How horrible it must be to bare a striking resemblence to the Queen of Naboo. I wonder if these gals become part of the entourage by choice or if they get "drafted" when it becomes clear they could pass as the queen.) Her "mother" is beautiful (a Padme look-a-like), yet sad. Maybe she's bummed about what had happened to Padme. Who knows. But if he just blows off Leia's comment, I'll have some major issues to work through.
Is there anything in the pre TPM literature (comics, etc.) ever stating that the Jedi become the "ghosts"? Maybe this is a new power that comes up later, like around the time of Qui-Gon (ie. we hear his voice, but he's not quite "ghost" enough to appear yet)? Because according to the AOTC book, Force lightening was an unknown power until Count Dooku. Just and random thought.
Thanks for your supportive comments. I agree with you assessment as well. The real strength in the Star Wars storyline is in the original trilogy. Though an exciting watch, Episode II (and Ep. I) really have no worthwhile, erip, or classic plot, and seem to fumble for meaning.
You rock!!! At last a person that can look past the glory of the Star Wars "empire" (pun intended)and look at the film as an independant piece of pop culture. It's not even worthy of comparison to those same movies that you (Zepo) compared it to. ATOC is simply a nod to the star wars fans on the world saying, I want something to look at, ohh!!! eye candy, ohh, light sabers, ohh, "drool" it's yoda fricking flipping all over the place and slashing and dueling.
I must weep again now.