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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit Reading NJO...Again

Discussion in 'Literature' started by spicewood, Sep 17, 2017.

  1. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    You will find there are 2 kinds of views on DE: Love or hate.

    I love it. It's superbly nuts and it all works very, very well for me. (You want an active Luke? You get that here in spades.) Others will, of course, disagree.

    To the principle objection some have of it rendering Vader's death void, I disagree. Vader saving his son simply to save him, regardless of the permanence of his master's death or lack of, enhances that sacrifice. It's also notable that the Emperor we have back in DE is but a remnant of what he was - still powerful and malevolent, yes, but no longer master of a galaxy.

    As to the finale - fecking awesome.

    Due to having a smash hit on their hands DHC felt compelled to do a sequel, but Dark Empire II and Empire's End were nowhere near the heights of their illustrious predecessor.
     
  2. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2017


    my fear is I'd hate it just bc I don't like the idea of Luke going dark side...

    about the Vader's death thing, that wouldn't bother me bc I don't see how it changes Vader's redemption, that is something Luke would do later, and I've never been sold on the "prophecy" thing either so any complaints on that wouldn't bother me just what I said above would
     
  3. SWpants

    SWpants Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2004

    Aaahh, that makes a lot of sense.
    You're right - and especially in the post-ROTJ EU, those lines as to what a Jedi is waver a bit too much.
     
  4. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Luke and Leia battle Palpatine without Anakin's help. I love it.
    I always figured that there was more to the Chosen One Prophecy. Stuff that was lost to time or was ignored by the Jedi since that stuff didn't align with their teachings at the time.
     
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  5. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2017

    My thoughts on the prophecy has always been, it obviously wasn't part of the OT, never mentioned, and was only added for the PT, and it doesn't make any sense in context of the EU since more Jedi and Sith/Darksiders show up....so I just ignore it as part of the mistakes of the prequels
     
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  6. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Yeah. It is a pain. I would have love it if somehow during the final battle against Abeloth, Anakin Skywalker is the one to make the finishing blow when Abeloth returns for the final time. The Skywalker/Solo of the time would unite Jedi and Sith and destroy Abeloth's physical body. Then in Beyond Shadows Anakin Skywalker would destroy her essence forever, bringing balance to the Force.
     
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  7. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2017

    that sounds like it would be cool and then give true credence to the prophecy, I haven't read even the actual events yet though, is that FOTJ???
     
  8. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2017
    okay, wow, just wow, I'm about to kick start this off again possibly but I have to address this, so as I've stated I've started DNT, I'm on page 114 of TJK, and this is the convo verbatim....

    "The law of unintended consequences," Mara said. "That's why it's better not to intervene. A modern Jedi would have held himself apart and studied the situation first."
    "And we're sure that's a good thing?" Leia asked. She was as surprised as anyone to hear herself asking this question, for the war had hardened her to death in a way that she would not have believed possible 20 years before. But the war was over, and she was tired of death, of measuring victory not by how many lives you saved, but how many you took. "How many beings would have died while a modern Jedi studied the situation?"
    Luke's confusion filled the Force behind her. "Does it matter? A Jedi serves the Force, and if his actions interfere with the balance of the Force - "
    "I know," Leia said wearily. "I just miss the days when all this was simple."
    Sometimes, she wondered whether the tenets of this new Jedi order were an improvement or a convenience. She worried about what had been sacrificed to this new god Efficiency - about what had been lost when the Jedi abandoned their simple code and embraced moral relativism.

    *emphasis by me

    r u frigging kidding me??? Luke actually argues that it's okay for people to die so he doesn't upset the Force??? I absolutely agree with Leia, this moral relativism sucks!!!!
     
  9. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Just speculating on how I want Abeloth's return to go after FOTJ.
    FOTJ spoilers ahead
    DeathEdit

    Abeloth's reign eventually came to an end with the Liberation of Coruscant. Using Dorvan as her aide, she solidified her rule on the planet until the Jedi began striking at the Lost Tribe across the planet. Under Dorvan's advice, the Sith retreated into the Jedi Temple. Realizing that the Sith would be unable to maintain their hold on Coruscant, and also seeing the opportunity to recreate her family, she abducted Vestara Khai and Ben Skywalker.[1]
    To distract the Jedi, Abeloth caused cataclysmic seismic activities on Coruscant, ensuring the potential death of billions if they gave chase to her. Abeloth's Korelei-avatar brought Vestara and Ben to her planet with the intention of forcing them to drink from the Font of Power, which would transform them into - for lack of a better name - the new family of Ones who would reshape the galaxy to their liking. She also sent out Ship to attack Luke Skywalker, anticipating that he would attempt to stop her. Abeloth then mindwalked the majority of her essence into the Realm Beyond Shadows to duel with Luke Skywalker, as well as Darth Krayt, a Sith Lord that was not affiliated with the Lost Tribe of the Sith. It was a grueling duel, although they eventually succeeded when Abeloth's avatar bodies were being destroyed one-by-one across the galaxy, eventually sinking into the Lake of Apparitions afterwards. Although Abeloth was dead, the Jedi Order knew that she would end up returning sometime (after becoming strong enough to do so), with Luke knowing that such a force entity couldn't be "truly" killed. According to Luke, Abeloth might not even return during his and the other Masters' lifetime, but even a hundred years or a hundred thousand years later. As a precautionary measure, the Jedi intended to locate the Mortis Monolith in order to obtain the Mortis Dagger, ensuring they would have a way to kill her for good if she were to return.[1]
     
  10. Point Given

    Point Given Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2006
    @OutsiderJediSam

    Please stop double/triple posting. We have an edit button for a reason.
     
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  11. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2017


    I'm sorry, where are seing this happening, I only see one post every time I put something new up? R U asking me to just edit previous posts when I have something new to say?
     
  12. Point Given

    Point Given Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2006
    Yeah, just edit the previous posts when you need to add to it.
     
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  13. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2017


    sorry about this post, I just thought about it being DNT instead of NJO, so I've created a post for it if any want to post, and I'm sorry about the reposting instead of editing, I would have edited this one but I guess it's been too long bc I didn't have an edit option anymore just a reply
     
  14. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    You know, it always surprises how easily people buy into DE's con job of a premise. The story does its utmost to convince the reader of this but the reader's default position should be that it's complete balls.

    The statement 'Luke Skywalker joins the dark side' should, in popular perception, be on the same level of credibility as 'Captain America is a Nazi' - do not open that door! ;)

    DE is the story of Luke Skywalker's descent into the uttermost depth of the hell of the dark side in order to take out the greatest evil the galaxy has ever known. It is a quest Luke will give all he is and ever could be to the pursuit, even if it is a doomed pursuit.

    Without giving anything away about the ending, it's interesting that what DE says about the dark side and how it works, especially in light of the prequels. For DE, it's all about what Vader says to Luke in Jedi, that he must obey his master. At the same time, the dark side is about fear and isolation, which is what we see in ROTS in how Sidious gets Anakin, He puts an awful lot of work into isolating Anakin, removing ObiWan, removing Padme - it's all about isolating in order to amplify Anakin's fears.

    The other non-spoiler comment I'll make is this: You want an active Luke Skywalker? DE gives you it in spades.
     
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  15. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2017


    obviously never having read it, I can just go off snippets of what I've heard and now what someone like you are telling me...

    1) on the idea of credibility on face value...I wouldn't presume Luke to just go dark side for the heck of it, I figured he had a reason, I've even heard it was b/c it would take that to save the galaxy from a threat....maybe it is told very well, I just don't really think one would/should have to go dark side to defeat a threat....so I think I'd be disappointed from that aspect

    2) now if you mean, he doesn't really go dark side, just more like he deals with the emotional aspects of the dark side internally, yet navigates those waters while pretending to work with the Emperor, but never actually performs dark side actions, that actually might make a great read, just let me know if that's what you mean

    3) interesting how you reference PT stuff in how it works with this since I saw someone say DE was written way before the PT, did Lucas use DE as canon while making the PT or is this just coincidence? cause often this type of stuff is where the cracks show in the EU

    4) The only thing I'll say about active Luke is just being active isn't enough, being active in a good way as opposed to bad way as I said above...he was active throughout the EU prior to NJO from my opinion, yet it was always fighting the bad guys as the usual def. of hero
     
  16. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2006
    I think DE is somewhat ambiguous on whether Luke actually ever did anything dark himself, or if he was under a really powerful thrall that he actively struggled against.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
     
  17. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Nah, that the PT enhances DE is wholly accidental.

    And yes, Luke goes to do an inside job on the dark side. He says he'll join it...

    OK, minor spoiler, but at the very start, when he says he'll serve the Emperor - both of them know it's complete crap. Luke considers it perfectly OK to lie to the SW equivalent of Satan and the Emperor figures the prize, Luke, is more than worth whatever minor damage he causes.

    Now, that's not the whole story as I don#t want to spoil it all for you - but get a hold of it, it's only 1 trade, 6 issues, it's a short, punchy, quick read.

    DE has one of the greatest Luke scenes ever in its first issue, way before he strikes his insincere bargain with the Emperor.

    I'd say the audio version makes it far clearer.
     
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  18. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2017

    ok, I might check it out then, bc I def. have no problem with an inside job and lying in that situation...that's no different than an UC situation for cops or CIA
     
  19. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    You'll find views and interpretations of DE vary greatly, I love it so this is my version.

    There's certain things it does that are superb, but I can't talk about those yet.
     
  20. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2017


    yea, thanks for understanding, I think I will go pick it up though, you've convinced me to give it a try with what you said, and also seeing your comments on other things, we seem to think a lot alike
     
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  21. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Dark Empire and early Tales of the Jedi make miss the days when people like Veitch worked on this franchise in some capacity. Writers like him and Ostrander as well as artists like Cam Kennedy and Jan Duursema have no real place in canon output considering how indistinct a lot of work seems from a comics perspective currently.
     
  22. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Oh, one other important tip - do not take the art literally.
     
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  23. Pacified_llama

    Pacified_llama Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 15, 2017
    That is such a universally applicable statement that has the capacity to do so much good. The only problem is, so few people do it - then the powers that be start assuming you don't need art beyond the literal, and that's very disturbing indeed.

    I loved DE - incredibly unique - a rare example in SW of uniqueness done well and done with a healthy sense of purpose, not as an experimental end in itself - I believe that's what creates a lasting impression.
     
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  24. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2006
    DE is so atmospheric. The art is essentially steeped in dark side miasma, and it evokes the same feeling for me as the Emperor's theme from ROTJ.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
     
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  25. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    I wonder if Luke actually had fallen to the dark side in DE? Would he have ruled by the emperor's side or overthrew him one day.

    But yeah DE is great and it gives a lot of insight into Palpatine as a villain.