Lit Reading NJO...Again

Well, yeah. By necessity this would involve them being different characters (having lived different lives) and their arcs being transferred to their own teenaged children. That's the entire point.

I'm not talking about skipping the Vong War. I'm talking about having the Vong War happen a generation later.

 

Allana for Jaina and Ben for Jacen?

 

Although an intriguing prospect, I am glad with what we got. Yes, it was bound to be controversial, but that goes with the territory. Also, the dynamic of Anakin-Jacen-Jaina is so incredibly important for it working, I think. You get set up to think a certain thing due to Anakin's heroism, but in keeping with the spirit of the series a different kind of hero is needed to stop the Vong. I think it's hard to set up the incredible character development of Jacen, from early arrogance to withdrawn, uncertain pacifist to "I don't know anything" to the more enlightened bodhisattva-esque Jedi he becomes later -- it's harder to contrast that with Anakin's straighforward heroism or Jaina's extremely sober outlook without them being exactly as they are. And Jacen and Jaina being twins has a resonance that is really capitalized on by the Vong twin gods storyline.

Also, being that many of us read about Jaina and Jacen since the Thrawn trilogy, and Anakin later, it really felt like an extended family we cared about. It all ends up being pretty essential to how things turn out, and it being effective I think. By NJO we care about them and we care more as it goes on. It's about themes, but those themes are deeply connected to the characters and flow out from them. Overall, I tend to think that the approach of coming up with themes or a story independent of what makes sense for characters, and then just putting them there, like LotF, I really disagree with that way of doing things. It prioritizes plot over character immersion and believability. Now admittedly, moving NJO to a blank slate further into the future in the spirit of Legacy prevents the destruction of established characters, but still for reasons I mentioned above, I like what we got better I think.

 

Lol. Funny to see my hometown slang used here.

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Interesting, has it been revealed who the story would have revolved around?

 

Would have been cool if it was during the New Sith Wars and every 3 books covered a new generation just like the OT, PT and ST do.

 

Not to mention that Salvatore never actually received any death threats.

Yeah, I remember some comic strip in the local newspaper having a memoriam for Chewie, and it being mentioned on the evening news. Even a few years ago when a local NPR show did something about Star Wars in the run-up to TFA, one of the hosts casually mentioned Chewbacca getting killed off in the books, the only EU related thing (of either new or old EU) in that show. It's the only time I've seen a non-movie related Star Wars thing actually get widespread attention.

Salvatore has said in the past that if he had had a choice in who to kill, it would have been Lando. I bet that would have had a good legacy....

 

Just tried to read a little of that article. Salvatore actually says an author must totally disregard audience when writing. I mean, I understand that an author wants to be able to write what he wants, but disregarding the audience is a good way for your novel to end up on just your shelf isn't it? If the idea is for the book to be sold and make you money, it stands to reason that maybe you should be interested in giving the audience what they want. Of course SW often doesn't care bc they know the money will be made regardless. That sucks!!

 

I hate to say it but the series probably would have benefitted from Luke dying in Vector Prime.

 

it could have worked well with a whole different plotline for Jacen, Jaina, and Anakin and the entire Order....if Luke died with the exact same what we got for all those.....it'd be horrible to me at least

 

I like that Luke's alive, killing Luke in the first book is too much. Chewie's death built up to Anakin's. Killing Luke is letting the cat out of the bag, and it also removes about one third of the plotlines from the series, including the Kyp-Luke schism, some awesome stuff like Vergere's debates with Luke, and the whole Luke/Jacen-different-views-towards-the-Force thing. Plus, we don't get Luke's awesome material in Unifying Force or his speech.

Luke is the old-guard, he is the contrast to the new generation of Jedi. Removing him cripples a lot of the thematic resonance because now you can't compare to the old guard, except through proxy or memory. It's just less powerful that way as an ongoing story. Did we continue to refer to Chewie's attitudes later on in the series? Not really, cause he's dead. With Luke alive, he's an ongoing contrast, which is necessary. We also see him evolve a bit, as the series provides some character growth for Luke as well.

As a side note, I also remember while reading the series, after Anakin died, I was very concerned anyone could go. Luke was at the top of that list. It added a lot of tension to the big battle of Unifying Force -- it felt like there was the possibility the series would end with Luke dying. When he didn't, there was actual relief.

On top of that, it is just too mean-spirited to kill Luke. Introduces a lot of the same issues as with TLJ, in terms of saga symbolism (particularly if it was through a moon crashing on him). Glad they kept Luke. Not that they had any choice, that was Lucas' #1 rule for all the EU -- can't kill Luke. Even Legacy could only show him as a Force ghost, no death scene flashbacks or anything.

I don't think so. I would hasten to guess an invented character.

 

the only thing I'd say about Chewie's death leading up to Anakin's is that it COULD have, h/e the way it was presented, I don't think it did very well....the whole notion that kept being given was that Anakin was alive bc of Chewie and that his life represented the epitome of Chewie's sacrifice so Anakin shouldn't fault himself....when Anakin died, it made Chewie's death feel even less significant though....although there's something to be said that Anakin's death did the same as Chewie's in that it saved the future Jedi I know....but cyclical stuff gets annoying to me personally bc u think why did I read about it the 1st, 2nd, 3rd times etc...

 

Luke dying would dramatically alter the series course and character deaths aren't planned out where "we're gonna drop a moon a character, but which..."

I think Luke being dead would have made more sense of Jacen's arc.

 

It takes the role of Anakin, and far too soon. Beyond that, as I mentioned, the contrast does not continue for the second half of the series once Jacen's gets his awakening. Overall, I just disagree completely. I think it would have made far less sense of it. Much happier with what we got.

Honestly, the more I consider it, the more it occurs to me that if Luke is gone you have a completely different series. He's a principle character, a major mover-and-shaker, he has an arc, he's sort of essential to a lot of it. It's not even the NJO as we know it anymore with him being dead the whole time. I think it's clear they mapped out the series in full after knowing he was there for sure. And if I remember right, they were not actually seriously considering killing Luke, they were just asking George for who they could kill. It was suggested at a meeting they could kill Luke, but from interviews and the like it doesn't sound like it was ever seriously part of the plan at any stage to kill Luke -- at the very least, not in the first book.

 

They did map out the series but it was pretty far off course by the time that it ended.

 

If I remember from an interview with some on the writing team, they said that further on as the series went they left it open to new directions to take the story in. I don't remember who, but one of them said something like "we wanted to let the series find its own path, to grow, to breathe" or something, to let each new author possibly move the series in a powerful new direction. I think that's exactly what happened when Stover pumped out Traitor. I agree that I don't think they had any idea how the whole of it would turn out on day 1, but they still kept the most major story beats from beginning to the end, and they let the underlying themes evolve with the writers' contributions as they went. So I guess I'd have to say I don't think it was off course at all, sounds exactly like how they wanted/allowed it to be and shape itself as it went along. The core overall story remained the same from the beginning, but as long as it didn't conflict with that overall arc, they let it evolve quite a bit. From what I know, that was always the plan to have the series do that.

 

I'll have to find the Luceno quote about how his ending was completely different.

I think Dix and Williams largely made up the plot to their trilogy as well.

It's been years since I researched all this so I'll have to find it all again.

 

Let us know when you do.

 

But I imagine the story beats are the same, in the sense of the New Republic/Galactic Alliance is victorious and the Jedi have a bold new path? That's what I mean by overall beats. As for the specifics or the themes, I have no doubt that was different because I think once Stover got involved the series adopted a much more "visionary" philosophical outlook that the Unifying Force had to capitalize on. I would totally believe that Luceno (or anyone) had no idea that was gonna happen on day 1. From what I know they just told Stover he had to basically do a tough coming of age Jacen story. I don't think they were completely prepared for what they got, but I'm so very glad they took that ball and ran with it to the end.

Would not surprise me in the least, lol.

 

Yeah I think the Vergere retcon started early with Luceno having Luke say "nah she was wrong" then just say the same thing as her.

There was a large misinterpretation of what Stover meant, which he basically repeated in Shatterpoint but differently, perhaps better knowing his audience, and thus no controversy.

 

Yeah -- and well even in Destiny's Way Luke has very serious disagreements with Vergere. You are probably right that the retcon of Denning et. al began with that interpretation of what Luke said, though I'd argue it didn't have to... Luke never said Vergere was a Sith, and I think I give Luke a pass on this one because from Luke's point of view, she was complicit in the torture of his nephew. Which is a totally understandable reason to not like someone. I am sure in Luke's mind, you just go in like Anakin and kick some butt, if you are a Jedi you bust Jacen out of there and save the day. So the notion of Vergere seemingly-cooperating with this terrible treatment of Jacen, making lemonade out of lemons, runs so against what he believes a Jedi should do. I think he considers it morally wrong. Even Vergere admits at the end of Traitor something along the lines of "I wish there were another way, but this is the only way I know it can work" in terms of the intense pain and loneliness Jacen has to deal with in his transformation. And I think Jacen even is on a different page than her a bit -- overall he agrees with her, but he doesn't close off the possibility that there's another way to do it than this.

So I think Luke's take on things, I can understand. He has personal beef with her given all the suffering Jacen was in. On the other hand, he is wise enough to realize her and Jacen may be onto something regarding the Force and the Jedi. So I like that he comes around philosophically, without maybe coming around personally. That seems realistic to me.

What Denning et. al did with that afterwards, though, is completely off the mark in my opinion. Because they force Luke to go back on his own new philosophical outlook, so in the end it undoes everything, and interprets Traitor in the worst, tone-deaf way (while seemingly ignoring the entirety, and especially the ending, of Destiny's Way). That's why for me, The Unifying Force is a satisfying conclusion, and I just don't put any legitimacy to what Denning, Traviss, and everyone did afterwards, which not only is at odds with Traitor but almost the entirety of the NJO in general.

Still should read Shatterpoint.

 

Speaking of one NJO plot that was interesting-what if after the fall of Coruscant the NR government collapsed or fragmented with general's taking resources at blaster point and senators commandeering ships and fleeing to their home sectors.

If the GA wasn't formed and the NR blew apart how long would it take the Vong to fully conquer the Galaxy?

 

I felt then, and do now, that where we pick up with Luke in The Joiner King and the way the Jedi behave towards the dark side of the Force is pretty far afield from what Luke says to the entire NJO in The Unifying Force. Like, he's embraced the idea that the dark side emerged from the collective egotism of sapient beings, but he doesnt then believe that the dark side isnt a factor the Jedi have to discard and ignore. Yet, in TJK, he's down for using the dark side and has bought into the whole "there is no dark side" poodoo. So, it's not just Vergere that Denning got wrong, it's Luke as well. And perhaps foremost.

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Yeah I recall regarding Stover the writers were amazed at the depth and quality of Traitor-they were like "give us a five" and he gave them a ten. So they were like "how do we keep this ball rolling?"

 

I took this more to heart in my rewrite where Anakin does a risky maneuver at the last second to save Chewie. He mentions to his siblings when they get back to Dubrillion that if he didn't save his father's old friend he could never forgive himself and he mightn't live much longer because he'd keep finding ways to get himself killed. Jacen gets taken aback with it and it becomes a factor for him through the rest of the rewrite. Mara brings it up on Dantooine that Anakin's past problems with being named after his grandfather (I kinda retcon out the galaxy knowing about Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker connection) and the possibility of Chewie being killed would've led to his early demise. It doesn't stop what happens at Myrkr (with Anakin briefly dying but is brought back to the mind-meld from all members of the team [living and deceased] keeping him alive though comatose for the rest of the war).