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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit Reading NJO...Again

Discussion in 'Literature' started by spicewood, Sep 17, 2017.

  1. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    The Insiders could have been useful later on.
    Droid Sentience could have been amazing as well.
    Imagine C-3PO and R2 meeting other droids and discussing all of this.
     
  2. Ackbar's Fishsticks

    Ackbar's Fishsticks Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 25, 2013
    The entire idea in Destiny's Way of redoing the Jedi Council and its relationship to the Republic/GA in a way that reassured people that the Jedi weren't unaccountable, while also counteracting some of the ivory tower tendencies that doomed the prequel-era Jedi, piqued my interest. It may or may not have been an improvement, but it's the kind of politicking I see all too rarely in this kind of entertainment - where instead of resolving a problem in a good-vs-evil battle, or throwing up their arms and going "all politics sucks, maaann," the main characters actually look at a situation, go "okay, this isn't working - how do we improve it?"

    A bit more exploration of the idea at the end of The Unifying Force that the entire galactic pecking order had been turned upside down.
     
  3. SiouxFan

    SiouxFan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2012
    You've hit on what I think is the major failing of SW in general...any time you have a large group of sentient beings, politics HAVE to be part of the story. SW has kept this 'politics are bad' thing for much too long...not all politicians are corrupt, not all regulations are evil, and oversight isn't necessarily bad. I was really expecting a mini-series of books about the rebuilding of society...instead they ignore it and give us another two armed conflicts. Lazy, says I.
     
  4. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    I was under the impression that at least part of the Empire's schtick (in order to win the support of the more corrupt and greedy corporations) was stripping away regulation.

    So, in that sense, SW might be dropping the hint that not all regulation is bad - that those who remove regulations can be bad - in at least some stories.
     
  5. SiouxFan

    SiouxFan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2012
    I concede your point about the Empire...they were trying to garner the support of the large corporations. But throughout the NJO, everyone was griping about oversight and how all politicians were either ignorant, corrupt, or both.
     
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  6. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Borsk Fey'la wasn't ignorant just interested in his own advancement.
     
  7. SiouxFan

    SiouxFan Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 6, 2012
    Exactly my point...I don't think that he was corrupt, nor was he ignorant. He was simply behaving according to his view of how politics works...which is what I think Ackbar was trying to get at...political thrillers can be a good read, if only SW would have tried to go that route. NJO is what, 19 books? They could have totally expanded the political angle more and the books would have sold.
     
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  8. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    They originally planned 29 books.
     
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  9. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

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    Sep 2, 2012
    I could think of plots for the series multiple times over.
    I'd love to read Knightfall.
     
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  10. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    They could have concluded the various subplots as well, and had more time set up for the post SBS books.
     
  11. SiouxFan

    SiouxFan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2012
    And done a better job of starting to wind the war down...TUF does make it make it seem a bit abrupt for a war of this magnitude.
     
  12. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    I think the explanation TUG gave fit pretty well-Shimmrra, Onimi, and a lot of the other Vong leadership is dead, Zonama has appeared, and the shames ones were in open revolt, and I believe Nas Choka did promise the GA that he would convince any holdouts to surrender or destroy them if they did not.

    Had Nas Choka not chosen to surrender then the war could have lasted years or worse ended with the use of alpha red.
     
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  13. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Mandalorians, Smuggler Alliance, stuff on Mon Cal, Admiral Kre'fey,
    Dealing with the hold outs after TUF. etc.
     
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  14. SiouxFan

    SiouxFan Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 6, 2012
    What I was really getting at is that the Vong seem to have the upper hand, even after Epaq9, until we get to TUF. All of a sudden, it seemed that the publishers just wanted to end the war, so...poof.

    Smuggler: Not to mention the Chiss, Hapans, Bakura...and all of the worlds that were wrecked.
     
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  15. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Not all worlds were wrecked just those in the path of the invasion-the southern galactic quadrant was mostly untouched.

    And Traitor said up the world brain causing issues , the shamed one's Jeedai heresy was a major problem especially with it escaping Nom Anor's latest attempt to ride to power, the eighth cortex being empty-that had to shake the faith of the Vong shaper caste, and the Vong court had its own problems.

    After the battle of Coruscant the Vong were entrenched in the world's they had-the war could have continued for years or they would have used alpha red both bad options.

    The Vong's manpower was largely used up-with more than a third of the warrior caste dead, their last strategic reserve annihilated, their new capital literally not cooperating, overextension-the Vong had to garrison what they had they could only attack by leaving their conquests un garrisoned.

    In conclusion the Vong by the end of the war were facing a series of strategic, morale, and societal problems, as well as political with Shimmrra-Onimi being insane and Nom Anor being ambitious.

    Their strategic and political position was eroding under their feet and the GA was on the offensive, I'd say their best chance was to kill Omas and break the GA-as Luke and Mara both observed discontent amongst the military was boiling over and the government was on the verge of crumbling in Destiny's Way-kill Omas and strike Mon Cal-the NR would have disintegrated into successor states and admirals going warlord.

    If this happened-the empire would not have allied with them and either would have sought terms with the Vong or prepared to make a final stand.

    Even so it would have taken the Vong quite sometime to secure the whole galaxy
     
  16. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

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    Sep 2, 2012
    The Unknown Regions would be ripe with stories.
    The Empire of the Hand, the Chiss, the Vagaari, the Killiks,
    Hapes-We could do stories from AOC to DJ, and then DJ to DW. Show the fallout of Fondor and Tenel Ka as Queen Mother.
     
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  17. Dr. Steve Brule

    Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2012
    It's also a religious aspect. The Vong have not only just been defeated by infidels, but the Supreme Overlord has been killed by a Jeedai. Legacy even shows how a lot of the Vong loyalists commit suicide due to the double-blow to their worldview. And TUF does state at the end that there are some Vong who refuse to surrender and keep fighting on.
     
  18. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Indeed-the morale blow was basically a double upper cut to the Vong's will to continue fighting.
     
  19. spicewood

    spicewood Jedi Master star 2

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    Jun 26, 2007
    Yeah, sending the kids. I don't have kids, have four godchildren and a lot of "kids" here as a volunteer, and I know that isn't the same...but, I cannot see how things were so desperate as to use child soldiers. Up to that point the YJK were either present during a fight or went on their own in Anakin's case. Intentionally sending them on a spec ops mission...well it is no wonder things got bad for that generation. Really tragic.

    Sent from my CPH1717 using Tapatalk
     
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  20. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Wasn't there some justification made about not sending the adult Jedi because they'd be more valuable prisoners/targets?

    However they weren't child soldiers-the youngest was probably 14 or 15.

    Young but not without historical precedent either in the GFFA or RL.
     
  21. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    IRL, anyone under the age of 18 "technically" qualifies as a child soldier:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_in_the_military
     
  22. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    According to modern international law yes-historically this was not so.

    And in GFFA history the Jedi have been not averse to using child soldiers before-the new Sith wars, Jedi Padawan participation in the clone wars. Etc...
     
  23. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

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    Dec 16, 2012
    I think we here have more a squire situation then soldier, but with modern, realistic (as in not space opera or children cartoons) perspective the end result is prorobly the same.
     
  24. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    It certainly wasn't a squire situation in the new Sith wars-it was flat out child conscription.

    And it may have been that somewhat in the clone wars-though padawans most definitely participated in combat.
     
  25. spicewood

    spicewood Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 26, 2007
    Excited to get to Star by Star and see if the rationale for sending the kids works any better this time through.

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