Reason why Lucas made Qui the way he did

But is it really arrogance? He truly believes it is the Will of the Force, not his own will, he is following. And as far as we know, it could well be the Will of the Force. Is it arrogance to do what he feels he must to obey the dictates of the Force?

 

bad radio:

That?s just it. Anakin does turn it all down, and Shmi has to turn him right around, kicks him out the door, and tells him to go with Qui-Gon and not to look back. Remember, at this point in the story, Anakin is FREE?

What?!! Anakin turns him down?!! When the heck does that happen? Are you referring to the part where Anakin has packed all his things into a bac-pack and is about to leave the planet and he expresses a child's moment of fear about leaving his mother? Come on, man, that's the weakest thing you've said yet. Shmi merely helped Anakin overcome a moment of fear. If Anakin had truly felt that this was not a good thing for him, do you seriously believe Shmi would still have forced him out? Of course not.


Not true. Shmi is the one who is constantly putting the idea in Qui-Gon?s head to help Anakin and to take Anakin with him. Qui-Gon doesn?t even have to ask if he can take Anakin away; as soon as Shmi discovers that Anakin is free she asks Qui-Gon to take Anakin with him and train him as a Jedi (once again the Force manifesting itself in the form of a human thought). Also remember Shmi and Qui-Gon?s little conversation? Shmi says that Anakin has special powers and that he deserves more than a slave?s life. She proceeds to ask Qui-Gon if he can help Anakin, to which Qui-Gon replies: ?I don?t know. I didn?t actually come here to free slaves.? Oh yes, Qui-Gon is soooooo beguiling. FI?

What you're missing in all this is that Qui is the impetus for the idea that Anakin should go with him. Shmi merely sees Qui as an opportunity for Anakin for a better life. Shmi is expressing her feeling that Anakin is meant to help Qui. And, she's right about that. But she never would have sent Anakin off with Qui if she thought that her little boy would grow up to be a monster due to him becoming a Jedi or if she thought Qui was a child molestor. Qui simply appeared to be a good guy (little did she know of his lying, cheating, and stealing and violations of the Jedi Code) who was a Jedi who could give Anakin a good life and not be a slave.

What mother wouldn't have felt comfortable in her place to give Anakin to Qui?


PMT99:

No he didn't. Anakin already had ideas about being a jedi BEFORE he met Qui-Gon and he shows this when he told him "It's what I've always dreamed of doing".

Of course he did, it's all right there in the film. Anakin had ideas about Jedi's but he never in his wildest imagination thought he could become one. It was Qui who put that idea into Anakin's mind and then recruited him.


Qui-Gon never tempted Shmi to give up her son because she wanted Anakin to have a better life which is why she was willing to let Qui-Gon have him and if Qui had it his way, he would have freed both Anakin and Shmi from slavery but as it is, he can only free 1 slave since Watto won't let him have 2 slaves.

Of course he tempted Shmi. His very presence accomplished that to a degree and then offers of a better life sealed the deal.

 

I remember reading that Neeson had a big argument with Lucas about putting his hand on Shmi's shoulder in one scene (Lucas didn't want him to.)

Maybe Lucas didn't want Qui Gon to appear particularly compassionate towards her? After all, he condemned her to live on in slavery when he could have freed her...

>>>Is it arrogance to do what he feels he must to obey the dictates of the Force?

I think it's arrogant of him to believe that he's the only one who can see what the Will of the Force is, even though the Jedi Council (correctly) point out the danger in Anakin's being trained.

Personally, I don't think Qui Gon took much into consideration other than the midichlorian count when he made his decision...

 

Bad radio & PMT99:
you both sum up my feelings on Qui-Gon. And really think you are wasting your time with the ignorant TJ.

TJ will you not quit bad mouthing QGJ? You are faced with fact from most of the posters in here and yet you still ignorantly and arrogantly dismiss what they say even though it is validly true.

But I guess twisting the truth to suit your opinion is fine

 

My advice is to NOT post (this will be my last) in TJ's thread (or should I say thread(s)) regarding Qui-Gon anymore.

You are just added more fuel to his fire and you are not going to change TJ's and other bashers of Qui-Gon's opinions.

Instead, find or create a Qui-Gon Jinn appreciation thread and go there.

Qui-Gon Jinn rules!!

 

I support DB93's proposal.

 

DarthTerrious, I pity you and your inability to discuss any subject intelligently. As your mommy probably taught you by now, if you can't say something nice about people, go to another thread and post there.

I hereby dismiss you.


DarthBane93, what you simply fail to understand about this subject is that this is not a basher vs. gusher issue. If you had an ounce of good sense, you would realize this by now. I too liked Qui but for a different reason than you. But, you're horribly blinded by pure hatred of anything and anyone that you can't debate.

I weep for your failure.

I must therefore dismiss you as well.

 

You are not bashing Qui-Gon???!!!!.... please, TJ, don't insult our intelligence.

 

I'm not trying to insult your intelligence. Just because I see Qui in a different light than you do does not mean I'm bashing him. Now, if I said that I hated Qui as a character and that Lucas should be ashamed of himself for perpetrating this crime on us, then that would be a different story.

 

Here's another way to look at this issue:

The message that Lucas is sending us with Qui is that whenever you bend and break the rules, believe that the end justifies the means, and force your views on other people, many bad things will happen. And that's exactly what happened.

Consider this:

It would be like those politicians back in the 1930's in Germany who used illicit means to make Hitler Chancellor. These politicians thought they were doing the right thing for Germany but obviously it was a disaster not only for Germany but for the whole world as well. If the politicians had left the issue of Hitler to the legitimate process, Hitler would never had come to power and the second world war would have been avoided.

It's the same thing with Qui and Anakin. Yes, Qui was right that Anakin was the Chosen One but because of Qui using illicit means and forcing Obi-Wan to train Anakin, instead of saving the Republic and the Jedi, both were destroyed.

How else could this have been handled? Try this on for size:

If Anakin had been left on Tatooine but under observation by the Jedi, he could have grown up, protected his mother, and eventually when the time came, he could have either been trained to become a Jedi like Luke was or could have served the Force in whatever way that it deemed when it was the right time.

By his illicit means, Qui circumvented the natural process of the Force and thus instead of helping the Jedi, Anakin helped destroy them and the Republic.

 

I agree with Haakun and DarthBane93.

Qui-Gon is not a liar and a cheater, he is a jedi but he isn´t a stupid jedi.

"Qui was wrong to insist in having Obi-Wan train Anakin" Why? In ROTJ Anakin brings ballance to the force.

Qui-Gon was the master of Obi-wan Kenobi and a great Jedi. Stop bashing him

 

Hold up, fellas. TJ is right, he is NOT bashing Qui-Gon. We're all merely discussing our views on his character traits and development.

 

"Of course he did, it's all right there on film. Anakin had ideas about Jedi's but he never in his wildest imagination thought he would become one. It was Qui who put that idea into Anakin's mind and then recruited him."

NO, the only person whose been putting the ideas of being a Jedi in Anakin's mind was Anakin himself because when he noticed Qui-Gon's lightsaber before the sandstorm came, he's already babbling about how he wants to be a jedi.

All Qui-Gon did was fool Anakin into believing he wasn't a jedi and suggesting that his lightsaber belonged to another jedi.

Not one time did Qui-Gon mention that Anakin was going to be a jedi until Shmi asked him once she heard that Anakin was free.

"Of course he tempted Shmi."

No, he didn't.

While he's known to be a real maverick, there is nothing in the film to suggest that Qui-Gon is manipulating Shmi into doing things she didn't want to do.

Shmi made the choice to let Qui-Gon have her son, Qui-Gon never had any interest in freeing slaves until he discovered Anakin's amazing potential.

 

"You mean I get to be a [/b]Jedi!!![/b]"

Say what you will about Jake Lloyd's acting, but that line and it's delivery tells me that Anakin had never in his wildest dreams imagined that he would get to be a Jedi until Qui Gon told him that he was going to become one (before he'd presented him to the Council to supposedly be tested to see if he would be trained...)

>>>Qui-Gon is not a liar and a cheater, he is a jedi but he isn´t a stupid jedi.

Please- Qui Gon lies and cheats in TPM. It's made very clear in the film, and has been discussed several times in this thread.

I don't think anyone's saying he was stupid- merely that he didn't take into consideration the consequences of his actions. Anyone who knows what happens to Anakin once he discovers the "power of the Force" should be able to see that Qui Gon obviously made a mistake.

>>>>"Qui was wrong to insist in having Obi-Wan train Anakin" Why? In ROTJ Anakin brings ballance to the force.

Because it's his Jedi training that leads to him being seduced by the Dark Side of the Force.

As Lucas has said, the issue becomes how to bring the young Anakin (ie. before he was found and trained) back. When this happens and Qui Gon's mistake is undone, he brings balance.

 

"Because it's his Jedi training that leads to him being seduced by the Dark Side of the Force. "

But we do not know if NOT training him would have had the same result...perhaps Qui-gon felt that the danger was greater to leave someone with such great force potential untrianed and unprotected on Tatooine than it was to try and train him in an environment where he would be taught to control and use his power for good. It is NOT Qui-gon's fault that Anakin untimately chooses the Darkside over the light. That choice is Anakin's alone.

Yes, Anakin falls, and all this follows Qui-gon bringing him to the Jedi, however, we simply do not know what would have happened had Anakin been left on Tatooine...

Life is choices. You make the best one's you can based upon the information you have at the moment. We simply cannot make choices beased upon the future because the future remains unknown and is shaped by our choices of the moment.

 

No, we don't and can't know what would have happened if he hadn't been trained.

But we saw Anakin before his training in the Jedi Arts- he could "see things before they happened", and the Force clearly had some degree of control over him (see End Battle; "there's no such thing as luck.") However, he had no POWER- he couldn't manipulate the Force, do mind tricks, telekenesis etc. Basically, he couldn't do what he wanted to with the Force, but the Force could do as it wanted (if that's the right word) with Anakin.

(Note that the scene where Qui Gon tells the council about Anakin starts off with him telling them about Darth Maul, "He was well trained in the Jedi Arts.")

I maintain that without the training, Anakin had no power, and without the power there is no Dark Side to be "seduced" by.

 

Lucas said something like this in an interview:

In the OT things were black and white, in the PT things become grey.

Good and evil become mixed, I think this also applies to Qui-Gon.

 

#cough#

 

Anyhoo..I think it's so we'd remember him. If he was just another cookie-cutter Jedi like the guys on the arena or the Jedi Council members, the average movie-goer wouldn't remember who he is.


This, of course, assumes that Lucas wants us to remember Qui-Gon, which also explains why Dooku brings him up. It's too keep him fresh in the audience's minds.

He will return in III, methinks, and Lucas wants to be sure audiences will easily remember him.

 

I would like to make a few points about what we know about Qui Gon Jinn.

He was close to Dooku

Died about the same time as Syfo Dias (who began to create the cone army_ are they the same man?

Qui = French for Who
Gon = A many sided shape
Jinn = Evil demon

Is considered too much of a maverick for the Jedi Council a trait we now associate with Anakin

We hear QGJ voice when Anakin is crossing to the dark side

At the start of Phantom Menace Obi Wan can feel the Dark side and QGJ tells hom to be mindful of the present, distracting him perhaps.

There are lots of other 'pointers' which lead me to believe that QGJ was in fact goverened by the dark side. Not necessarily voluntarily, but certainly manipulated

 

Bumped, just because I was feeling nostalgic (and I don't want this one to vanish in the purge).

Yes, kiddies. This is how nasty is used to get around here... and this one isn't even as bad as it COULD get.

Perhaps I have been here too long, but it seems like these days you can't even roll your eyes at someone without being accused of flaming.

We've all become so Politically Correct! LOL!

 

I miss TrueJedi...

>>>Qui = French for Who
Gon = A many sided shape
Jinn = Evil demon

Also, "Qui-Gon" has been said to be derived from the Chinese "qi gong," (chee goong), meaning "energy manipulation." Which I think fits in well with my theory...

(From Qui-Gonline.org

 

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