Reasons why ROTJ was a poor film, even though it had a lot of potential - anyone else agree?

I've always had problems with ROTJ. I've really tried to like the film, but there are so many aspects of it that I think are terrible, and what makes it worse is that the movie had so much potential.

Here are the just some of the reasons:

* The Ewoks. I know this has been said before, many times, but let's face it, the Ewoks were very out of place in a Star Wars movie. They were tiny, adorable little teddy bears who were supposed to be threatening, but the way Leia treated Wicket (like a little doll), and the way that they were portrayed (cute) was a mistake.
It would've been a lot better if Lucas had used Wookies, as was the original intent, but I understand that the budget constraints and difficulties in finding a large group of 7-foot tall actors to play the Wookies (plus the more expensive costumes) had a lot to do with them not being able to do that (since there was no CGI at the time).
The alternative would've been to use creatures that were more fearsome and believable as native warriors of the planet, but Lucas was more concerned with the "kiddie" factor (obviously the Ewoks were supposed to appeal to children) and making money than he was with telling a good story.
Well, I know ROTJ made a lot of money (both as the SE and the original), but it wouldn't have made any less if Lucas hadn't used the Ewoks.
I've even heard that in some showings of ROTJ (probably the SE), audiences have cheered when the one Ewok dies - ha ha

* The aforementioned forest battle between the Ewoks and the Imperial troops was extremely unrealistic. Here you have supposedly battle-hardened Imperial soldiers (A legion of my best troops, as the Emperor says) defeated by little teddy bears using primitive weapons.
And, why did the Imperials run away when the Ewoks were storming into them at the beginning of the battle? They should've stayed and defended the bunker. They acted like cowards, which is not the way the stormtroopers acted in ANH and ESB. Hey, they may be not-too-bright clones that can't shoot, but I never envisioned them as the pansies they're portrayed to be in ROTJ.
Yes, I understand that Lucas was trying to compare the Endor battle with the way the Viet cong defeated American Troops in Vietnam (a primitive culture defeating a technologically superior culture using primitive weapons), but the difference was that Vietnamese troops (both Viet Cong and NVA) DID have modern weapons (AK-47's, if I recall) as well as anti-aircraft weapons, etc.
Ewoks just had, basically, sticks and stones. Plus, Ewoks are not vicious warriors!
The battle should've been portrayed as a vicious (without excessive blood), no-holds barred battle for the control of the Bunker, not the comedy crap-fest that we did see.....

* Why did we only see one Ewok and one Rebel soldier dead? Also not realistic - there should've been more - this is a huge battle, and only showing two of the good guys dying is absurd.

* The horrible acting/joking on the part of Harrison Ford - "Hey, it's me!", "Don't take all day, alright!?" (to Threepio), "Good, I hate long waits.", "You're gonna die here you know - convenient" - it made those scenes seem like something out of a bad '80's sitcom - the only thing you couldn't hear was the laugh track. One or two comments would've been alright, but there were way too many throughout the movie.
Also, the clumsiness of the character (when he stepped on sticks that alerted the Biker Scout) was ridiculous. It made Han Solo look like a buffoon.

* Why, after the Death Star was destroyed, did the rest of the Imperial Star Destroyers and forces stop fighting the rebels? Remember, these Imperial forces are supposedly all if not most of the Imperial forces that the Emperor has at his disposal. I got the impression there were at least 50 Star Destroyers in the battle, and countless other small Imperial ships.
From what I saw, only 1-2 Star Destroyers were actually destroyed, so even if the Death Star was destroyed, the Imperials should've continued fighting the rebels - they wo

 

Whew... Okay, I'll try to go through each of them as best I can before you get youself flamed. Your Questions are reasonable, theres just to much negativity in this.

Ewoks:
In the massing Galaxy of SW, we see tons of alien species roaming about, Giant slugs, Talking Crabs, and a weird guy with a snot revene in his face. Where in that do you not see room for Midget bears? We have giant Bears...Why not short? Yes there cute and fluffy, but so what? And as for the Battle with the storm troopers, it IS Vietnam, Gurrila warfare. In AotC, and ESB, we see the man way that the "Civilized" galaxy battles, head to head, full on battles. The "Elite" team of forced the emporer had there, had no chance against tons of rocks, and dozens of arrows that was being hurled at them at once, and seemingly from nowhere. also, halway into the battle, we see the Tiny Ewoks begin to lose as the AT-STs come in... Realy, there were more losses than just what we saw, but it wasn't important to show, the poor Ewok dieing was showing theat they only had the upper hand because of surprise.

Han: Well yes, the humor was like it was outa the 80'S....But hey! It was... Look Hans an a** his plucky jokes are to show that he isn't intimidated by jabba, or by death. He is a pirate, so death is a daily obstical... As for the Endor scene, he's just confident, he's been fighting these Imperials for years now, and is sure that two won't give him and Chewy any problems, but he steps on a stick... In a forest planet, Big deal? It was a way to get into the speeder chase, so let Han be Han, and the plot devises be Plot devises.

The Empire's Fleet: If you notice Admiral Ackbar mentions that they can't last long with that Death Star , and the celebration scene is shown to be at Endor's night, so, the fleet must have battled on, and eventualy the Empire lost. There were only a few SD to keep the fleet from escaping, while the ENTIRE rebel fleet was there...

Droids: You have an Astro-Mech droid, that can basicly hack his way into any locked door... and a Protocol droid that speaks over 6 million verbal languages, I think there was a chance they'd be helpful... Essentially, Artoo's there to unlock door's, scan for lifeforms, and do other asto-mech stuff, Threepio is there to tanslate Artoo...


I think thats about it... Your main problem, is that you focus to much on cute Minor scenes, and it drops your focus on Serious Major scenes. The Vader Luke Duel, Han and Leia, Vaders Redemption, The celebration. These are great scenes, if you just worry about "It's me!" then you're not getting the point... So relax, and just watch the movie...

 

anyone else agree?

I don't because I accept the movies for what they are. They may not be perfect but I love them nonetheless.

 

Nothing is perfect. Not even Star Wars. But ROTJ comes about as close as you can get.

 

Nope. Don't agree.

As for the 3PO mentioning Chewie never returning from Jabba's palace, you answered your own question: they were hardly told anything about the plan (well, perhaps R2 did know more than 3PO since 3PO is so skittish).

I think the Battle of Endor (including all three parallel battles) is the best battle of the trilogy and, so far, of the entire series.

 

In my opinion, RotJ is the best Star Wars movie of all time. Who cares about the Ewoks? It shows good conquers evil. Ok, so Han says a few corny lines, there is at least one scene/line to overcome the bad parts. Anakin's redemption, "I am a Jedi, like my father before me...", the Endor battle, the sail barge, and the list goes on and on. It's an amazing film and always will be....

 

Hey, thanks for all of the responses. It looks like I'm definitely in the minority here, which is fine.

I just wanted to address some of the comments:

* The Ewoks - I have no problem with the Ewoks existing in the Star Wars galaxy - as has been said, if there are huge slugs and large bear-like creatures (wookies) and large walking Preying Mantises (from the Cantina in ANH), then of course there can be little semi-intelligent teddy-bears.
My issue is that these teddy-bears were the ones that Lucas picked to inhabit the moon of Endor and help the Rebels fight. Why didn't Lucas make them look more like native earth tribes with some type of alien twist (American Indians/Maori/etc.) - he could've made them more menacing if he wanted to - I think the Ewoks were originally supposed to look more savage, but Lucas decided to "kiddy-fy" them. How can an audience take a little group of teddy bears seriously as fierce warriors? I couldn't - again, I may be in the minority here.
Going along with this, if you're thinking of budget/cost, Lucas could probably have created some better looking, more menacing alien costumes than the Ewok costumes with as much or less money than he used for the Ewok costumes (which probably weren't cheap, since they were full-body costumes).
Imagine this - a group of savage natives on the planet that were vaguely humanoid, but with full body-paint. Not cute, not cuddly, just mean and angry. Fully prepared to help the Rebels kill the Imperials, because the Imperials have been using them as slave labor. I think that would've worked better, but that's just me...
Of course, in a perfect world, Wookies would've been used as the natives - they would've had the strength and their defeating the Empire would've been more dramatic (Imagine a bunch of Chewbaccas barelling into a group of Stormtroopers, picking them up, and throwing them against each other). Plus, they were used as slave labor by the Empire (according to EU), so the motivation would've been there as well.
But, with the budget constraints and the difficulty of finding 7-foot tall extras, that wouldv'e been impossible.

My issue with the battle being unrealistic still holds - what I didn't mention in the first post was that the arrows of the Ewoks didn't seem to penetrate the Imperial armor - so, how did the arrows help? They just bounced off the armor. So, why were the Imperials scared of the arrows? They shouldn't have been. So, that scene when the Ewoks surrounded them with arrows drawn shouldn't have scared them (the surrender scene). The troopers should've just been able to shoot their way out of there.
Maybe the arrows were supposed to penetrate the armor but becuase of the PG rating, they couldn't. But, the point is they weren't shown penetrating the armor, so as far as I'm concerned they didn't.

* As far as Han's cute comments, I still argue that there were too many of them in ROTJ. If you look at ANH and ESB, there weren't nearly as many, yet the movies were still great. Han had no stupid, snide comment to make before he was put into Carbon Freeze (other than "I know", which was more of a serious comment than a smart-a** one), which added to the drama.

* After reading the explanation, I agree that the Rebels may have defeated the Imperials after the Death Star was destroyed. But, I still think that's stretching it, considering the Imperials seemed to have had many more ships. I guess it's possible, since Tie Fighters don't have shields and Star Destroyers are slow and unwieldy....But, it's not realistic either....

O.K., I admit I may be nitpicking here, but that's because I was dissapointed in ROTJ. It didn't have the dramatic feel that the other two had - yes, I liked the Jabba scenes, the Vader/Luke fight, the Redemption scene, Luke's burning of Vader's body on the funeral pyre (it reminded me of what I heard Vikings did with their dead), Luke seeing the ghosts of his father, Obi-wan, and Yoda at the end, as they all smile at him in approval. Those were all good scenes.

But

 

I definitely remember seeing arrows sticking in the Stormtrooper armor. One sticks into the back of a trooper just as the battle is beginning, and we actually hear him scream.

 

O.k there are some really good points as well-

*Luke kicking ass in the Dunne Sea battle

*All Vader scenes

*I like Han's humour it's funny!

*The Vader, Luke battle with Sidious wathcing by-superb!

*Leia in a bikini

 

who cares?

 

ROTJ is my favorite SW film

Vader's redemption is my favorite part, the entire internal struggle Vader has in the whole film I love

Great film! It's just a matter of taste, if you don't like it fine by me, but I still love it

 

I love ROTJ. Never really had problems with it.

I do sometimes wonder whether or not the end battle would have been better with Wookies instead of Ewoks (you have to admit, having Wookies battle the Stormtroopers would be more epic). But either way, I still love it

 

Good point about the wookies. I think it would have been cool to see, and more realistic, as well. The wookies might have liked to get even with the Empire after all those years of mistreatment, and Lucas would have been making just as good a statement if he'd shown them dealing out paybacks instead of the ewoks demonstrating that it's possible for the little guy to win.

 

I. Love. RotJ.

I. Adore. Ewoks.

For one thing, what's wrong with cute? There's room for these little fuzzballs in the galaxy, just like the big threatening looking monsters.

I've said it time and again, there's an incredible amount of symbolism in the Ewoks. They're the little guy, showing the Empire that they won't stand for it anymore.

Finally, I dare anyone to read the X-Wing series and still look at Ewoks the same way.

 

First of all, I consider Return of the Jedi to be the best movie of the Original Trilogy. Having said that, I do agree with some of what Blur has said.

As far as the Ewoks go, I am forced to agree with almost everything he (she?) has pointed out. I get tired of listening to excuses about the "symbolism" behind the Ewoks; how Lucas was trying to show that the little guy can beat the big guy, and so on and so forth. That's crap. Lucas might have been trying to send that message, but the way he did it, it simply isn't realistic. I'm OK with some of things that happened, like the Ewoks unloading a pile of timber on the AT Walker, and Chewie and the two Ewoks taking over another AT. But things like that are overshadowed by the fact that the stormtroopers, who had blasters and armor and were supposed to be some of the Emperor's best troops, were defeated by a bunch of clutsy, uncordinated furballs who were armed only with slingshots and bows and arrows. That simply doesn't happen.

However, that is my only complaint with Return of the Jedi. For example, I really don't have any problems with Han Solo's dialogue--in fact, I like it a lot. My favorite line is when he says: "Then we'll do it real quiet like!"

 

Blur i totaly agree with you and untill know i though i was the only one who felt this way. People dont get me wrong i love starwars but 1,2,4,and 5 are so much better then 6. By the way Blur the one thing i dont agree with you on is the stuff about Han i though he was good in that movie.

 

Why would Lucas show the rest of the battle after the DS2 was destroyed and Vader and Palps dead? Its called editing.

 

ROTJ could be better, I agree. But it rocks.

 

I see some of the shortcomings that have been talked about, especially about the Ewoks.

I was simply bored with the Ewoks and their culture. To me, it slowed down the film. I usually FF through the scene where Leia is awakened by Wickett.
Lucas originally was going to have Endor be the native planet of the Wookees (sp). But for some reason, he changed that.

Harrison Ford was pretty open about not wanting to be in ROTJ. He begged Lucas to kill off his character. It shows in his performance which I view as sluggish. He gained weight and looked like he wanted to be somewhere else.

Probably the fundamental problem with ROTJ is that Lucas simply wanted to finish the saga.

He had originally planned Episode VI to be mainly about Luke's rescue of Han from Jabba, and the third trilogy to focus on Luke and Vader teaming up to defeat Sidious.

But since Lucas just wanted to get the thing done, he crammed all of the above into one movie.

Apparently, there is enough story material in ROTJ to make four films. But that MIGHT never be done.

 

Blur -

I pretty much agree with all that you said. I like a LOT of things in the movie, but the Ewoks are a real problem, it's all too slapstick, I don't expect blood and guts but it just seems like an insult to watch teddy bears chasing troopers. It could've worked - if the Ewoks had been shown to be more dangerous, like a wild animal when it's threatened, if they'd bared their claws or something. But they just look silly.
Particularly when the rest of the troops come out and find themselves surrounded by a group of teddy bears with sticks - THEY GIVE UP! Shoot them!

Han was turned into little more than a buffoon, there was no need for that.

And the story has a general feeling of "lets wrap this up and go home."

But as I say I do still love it, but I don't see the point in denying its flaws. IMO

g

 

Particularly when the rest of the troops come out and find themselves surrounded by a group of teddy bears with sticks - THEY GIVE UP! Shoot them!

Or use your super combat training to withstand being hit with sticks or rocks with the protection of armor, especially since we see ewoks being hit by friendly fire who just get up and keep going.

 

Yeah that sucks. The trooper armor is useless. Leia's weak pistol can kill them. Rocks and sticks that are harmless to small teddy bears kills them.

 

The ewoks did not defeat the Empire with rocks and sticks people. There were alot of Rebel Soldiers that did the majority of the work. Mostly, the ewoks provided a big distraction.

Sure, they did destroy a couple of walkers and speeder bikes, but those were definitely not with rocks and sticks. Huge logs bashing a walker in the head definitely seems realistic to me.

In fact, I don't recall any scene where even one Imperial was taken out of actions with a rock or a stick. A couple of times many Ewoks overpowered a Trooper and took him out, but again that seems okay with me. Once five ewoks have an armored trooper on the ground, how hard is it to stick a spear into a soft spot?

Simply because an ewok is small doesn't mean they're completely helpless. Chances are a chimpanzee is smaller than you. But a chimpanzee could beat the living snot out of you without a problem.

The movie even had several scenes showing how ineffective most of the ewok attacks were. The ewok-glider dropping rocks on the Scout Walker. The ewoks trying to trip the Scout Walker with a rope. The ewok on the walkers foot smacking it with a club.

I think alot of you aren't watching the same movie as I am.

 

I felt ROTJ was the weakest of the OT, but I still enjoy watching it. You can see GL's budget increased for each movie in the amount of sets and costumes he was able to build. I think ROTJ had a hint of what we see in the PT: Too much eye candy, less story.