Reassembling and true persona of the Sith

Not the last dose. He got a good bath that time, should have been enough to unpretty him. Enough time for Vader to look at him, look at Sidious, look back at him, reflect, cut to Sidious sneering, cut to Luke screaming, etc... if it was possible for lightning to scar its victim (where the victim is not also the source, or a Dark Sider at least), Luke would be like a cheese slice in the microwave for 10 minutes.

 

If you look at Palpatine's face while zapping Luke, even post "you will die." Doesn't he bear his teeth, relax his face a little, and then get tense again, relax a little bit again. While the stream of lightning never stops, I took this to mean that he's still increasing the voltage at given intervals, he was still controlling the lightning.


Wbere as, given all the information on the Palpatine transformation, he is channeling "raw" darkside energy. As in it's not controlled. It's just pure dark side energy just getting channeled straight through and out of him. It's not really evident by the film, but that's what alot of the other official sources seem to agree upon.

Several people have proposed that Palpatine changes because he is unleashing dark side energy while being hit by it. I really don't see why this is at all important, since it has been stressed that the lightning is what caused the change, not simply dark side use.


EDIT: I'm actually not 100% sure that's the case and I don't have access to ROTJ at the moment.

 

Heehee! Well, it was the subject of *much* debate whether Sidious can alter the 'voltage' of his lightning... I would agree with you that he would / could have this ability.

However, I'm still in the camp that the lightning was at most a catalyst for the change - after all, we see Anakin's eyes change, and then revert - Maul's eyes are yellow and his teeth are hobo-chic. Last, it's been pointed out that Sidious has claws following this exchange. There just seems to be way too much evidence for Dark Side disfigurement outside lightning to attribute it entirely to lightning, and then in the case of (un)Lucky Luke, even if the level of power was not sustained the dosage must surely have been high enough to very nearly kill him - so given that, I would expect that if the lightning *alone* could cause such a change, he would have to at least show *some* damage, which he doesn't...

 

yeah, i would have thought most assumed this to be the case anyway...

 

I would like to agree. Since that explanation simplifies things. But Pablo, the script, what is seen in the film, etc. all suggest otherwise to me. I'd hate to think that all could be wrong while McDiarmid was right.

Well while shooting lightning at Yoda in the Senate pod he lets out a very loud groan, like he's pushing more power out (or crapping his pants). And the script says that his eyes burn yellow while struggling to intensify his powers during the Mace-Sidious scene, so I'd think that it's official that he can.

Which I tried to address in an earlier post. The lightning and dark side energy have been used interchangeably by official sources. Perhaps having "raw" dark side energy hitting him corrupted his appearance and gave him an evil appearance. I mean it's not like he gets an electrical burn. But at the same time, he gets disfigured only wherej lightning hits him. I.E. he is first struck on the right side (his right) of the face, and his face begins to distort there first. Then, it strikes him in the left side, the forehead, etc. And it's gradual, getting worse and worse the more it strikes an area.

 

Honestly, I think you're reaching with the Luke thing. Intervals? I'm pretty sure that he was just firing normally.

Maybe you are right that everyone says its lightening, but then that contradicts the rest of the saga. I know everyone says EU is BS, but Maul looked ugly as all hell. That isn't a result of his species, but the dark side. Anakin used teh dark side. What happened? His eyes changed.

Contradiction...

 

According to what some of you guys are saying both Maul and Vader would have having to channel dark force lightening for any physical change. Its just too far fetched and more of a case of trying too hard to make a truth fit.

 

What?

Neither had loose skin hanging off their bones. They had yellow eyes, which IS characteristic of intense dark side use.


The only good comparison between Maul, Sidious, and Anakin is the eyes. And also the teeth, but that only applies to Sidious and Maul.


The eyes and voice had nothing to do with the lightning. That had to do with channeling dark side energy. The fact that his skin distorts is due to the lightning.

 

So you would agree that the Dark Side has SOME physical affects?

Remember both Maul and Anakin were still young and new to the Dark Side. Palpatine had been living it for decades.

Wasn't Maul young? I could be wrong..

 

Sigh, no TarodosGon, no. What im saying is that you simply cannot attribute all dark side physical transformation to force lightening.. .

 

All the Sith are different.

-Dooku was very calm and collected. He used the dark side of the force but never had any physical change. He is hiding behind a "mask." Inside there is hate, but outside there is a gentleman.
-Maul had no reason to hold back. He was not a public figure, his whole purpose seemed to be to help Palpatine destroy the Jedi. He was never a Jedi and had no inner conflict. His Sith eyes were permanent.
-Vader shifted between these two, but never permanently. He could go from Sith eyes one second, to expressing his love Padme the next.
-Sidious pre-Mace fight was like Dooku. He was always evil on the inside, but a gentleman on the outside. When he finally unleashes the lightning, however, he is letting all of his evil out.

He uses so much dark energy that his eyes turn yellow, and his voice grows deep permanently (like Maul). And all the released power twists his face when it is reflected back on him, as his dark side power carves out his skin to mirror the inner evil.


Thus:

Change in eyes and voice are due to intense use of dark side energy.

Change in skin is due to lightning.

EDIT:

And who is doing such?

 

Well Im glad somebodies cleared all that up...

 

Ok that makes more sense and I almost agree with all that. The thing that bothers me is Luke's skin not changing.

Who knows...

Lucas may go back and...*shudders*

 

I wonder if Lucas has ever fully explained his vision to anybody without ambiguity, actually. I mean McDiarmid says one thing, Pablo another, Knoll another, McCallum another.

As previously mentioned, the script reads:

"By now PALPATINE'S face has changed to more monstrous. As the Jedi moves closer, the bolts from Palpatine's hands begin to arch back on him. The Chancellor's face begins to twist and distort. His eyes become yellow as he struggles to intensify his powers."

It is mentioned that the bolts are arched back on Palpatine in the 2nd sentence.

It is mentioned that his eyes become yellow as he struggles to intensify his powers in the forth.

The 3rd sentence, that explains what is happening to his face is very vague and doesn't include anything to tie it to either of the above mentioned ideas (sentences 2 and 4).

I wonder if Pablo read the script and without thinking associated sentence 3 with 2 and said "Oh, the lightning scars his face."

While Knoll, without thinking associated sentence 3 with 4 and said "Oh, he was using so much dark side energy to intensify his powers that it deformed him."

I'd love to hear what Lucas said when/if either approached him and asked about what was going on in the scene.

I.E. I wonder if Lucas was in favor of the mask theory (that McDiarmid claims) but when asked by Knoll or Pablo what was going on, spoke vaguely and said something to the effect of "In the scene, the lightning is forced back on him, and it's LIKE (simile) the lightning is scarring his features," and Pablo took that literally, etc.

I would love there to be a final official answer from Lucas to wrap this up, once and for all, released in an Insider or or posted on the OS, but I doubt it will ever happen.

Palpatine is my favorite character, and it bugs me that no coherent answer as to why he undergoes a DRASTIC change of character (vital to that character) in Episode III.


And with that realization, I'm ready to back off, stop arguing, and admit "I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE!"

 

Agreed TaradosGon.

This is kind of left up in the air. That is why when people say "so and so said this, so that means its FACT." I just brush it off. There are so many conflicting stories, that it is hard to tell...