Full Series Rebels 2.01-2.02 - The Siege of Lothal - Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

Nope, definitely a red shirt for Vader to dispose of because of his incompetence.

 

I don't know... there's sort of two versions of Vader - the one who recognises and promotes talent and is a very strict but mostly fair... and the one mistake and you're out choke-happy killer Vader who throttles you if you look at him funny. For him to let the guy go (it was bad luck as much as incompetence) wouldn't necessarily be out of character, but choking him would be totally in character too. Just my over-analysing tendencies coming back to the fore I guess!

 

As I think I said earlier, whether we see that guy again or not, I really hope Vader ultimately winds up Force-choking Admiral Konstantine directly later on. Scapegoating your own officer like that is really slimy, and he needs to choke somebody at some point.

 

The way I see it, Vader was wanting them to fail, so when it happened he wasn't angry. Instead he was happy cause that is what he wanted. He only force chokes when he gets angry. So basically instead of turning into the Hulk he stayed as Bruce Banner.

 

I like the analogy!

 

Kallus is one cold person ain't he? I hope he gets a bigger role this season, I kinda dig his horribleness.

 

Well, his name does kind of give his personality away. Just a little.

Kallus was confirmed to have a tremendous role in S2; I'd like to hope that means deep character development. Right now, his character is intriguing but under-developed. The man deserves his own novel, short story or comic.

And yeah, Kallus showing just how he came to be a senior ISB agent was extremely enjoyable and much needed. The majority of previous episodes had just shown him running around after the rebels (which is what any regular Imperial Army/Navy unit could have done), so it was great to see the insidious, underhanded activities of the ISB in action, i.e. showing, instead of telling. Participating in a cover-up, propaganda, murder and deceit with glee and professionalism... mmmm.

On a lighter note, someone on Tumblr suggested that there needs to be an episode or more with Kallus and Lando in the same room together for the entertainment value. Disney, please let it be so!

 

Something I mentioned in different Rebels thread in a entirely different forum (If you want a laugh google spacebattles bionicle. It's a strange world we live where a Lego Toy (specifically a Toa) could probably kill Darth Vader easily inuniverse. Uh.. I my train of thought. Oh yeah back to Kallus!), the Kallus Vader relationship was.. interesting for a multitude of reasons.

First of, Imperial relationships with Vader have never gone so swimmingly.
Takrin and Vader were constantly at odds with each other, having entirely different motivations and goals.
Captain Needa... "Apology Accepted Captain Needa" Enough said.
Vader and Maketh Tua, Vader didn't even give her any respect. He saw her as pathetic, cowardly fool, and he was exactly right.

But Vader and Kallus? Kallus show's no fear towards Vader. Fearing Vader never crossed his mind. He showed fear towards Tarkin in Call to Action, when Tarkin subltly implied he was next on the chopping block, but even seeing EVERYTHING Vader does, he doesn't show any fear towards Vader.

Looking at the situation at Kallus's perspective, I think it's all about Vader being a seemingly unknown to the majority of the characters. Kallus doesn't fear Vader, because he doens't know that Vader is an anger filled timb bomb who will kill a soldier in response to incompetence. While Tarkin is far more calculating in his thinning of the ranks in Call to Action, Vader is rage incarnate. You get on his bad side, bad things will go down. But here's why Kallus never gets force choked. The big reason?

Vader is the perfect match for Kallus when it comes to strategy. While Kallus was undeveloped in Season 1, we did get some important points in Vision of Hope. He disagreed with the Inquistor's methods, beleving the Inquistor was focusing too much on the Jedi, instead of the Rebel group as whole? And guess what? Strategically, Kallus was right. The Inquistor was Vader's hunting dog, and he wanted to get the rabbit that had escaped him. He didn't care about actively shutting down the Rebels, he wanted the Jedi.

But what does Vader do? Does he focus only on the Jedi? Heck no. Vader is all about attack, manipulating, scapegoating, and terrorising the Rebels as a group above all else. Vader is merciless, cold, having a massive lack of empathy, and above all else, gets results. Vader appeals to Kallus in how Vader strategizes, Vader's willingness to commit atrocities to lure out the Rebels, and the fact that unlike the Inquistor, Vader got freaking results.

Kallus doesn't Vader's personality or past well enough to be afraid of Vader, but all the things Vader does appeals to Kallus logic and perspective on fighting the Rebels. Thus Kallus has no reason t disagree with Vader's orders, or do anything that would get Vader annoyed, because Kallus already can see that Vader is actually COMPETENT, which during Season 1, he felt that no one around him actually was.

And why Vader doesn't ever get annoyed? Like I said, Kallus obeys Vader without hesitation. While he would inquire about Vader's strategy at certain points, and Vader would calmly explain his logic. And Kallus understood Vader's reasoning, because that's how Kallus would think and act if he more authority. And most importantly, every order Kallus obey's, Kallus does efficently. Vader's has no reason to hate Kallus, and Kallus has no reason to disagree with Vader.

Basically, I see Kallus at the incredibly competent righthand man. He can get stuff done, he can kick butt, he's awesome. But he's still the just the righthand man. He can only do so much if his current superior is not as competent as him. Vader and Kallus work so well in Siege of Lothal, because Vader is the competent superior that Kallus, as the competent subordinate needed to finally show his horrible, Empire-Loyalist, cold agenda.

And now I just realized I wrote multiple paragraphs on two fictional characters who are also major villains. I got to stop drinking caffiene, shouldn't I?.

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I quite like that. Kallus does still seem to be fairly low down the ladder in terms of actual power and influence and I can see that grating with him. But like a good intelligence operative would, he's spotted that by sticking close to Vader he can hitch a lift right to the very top if he plays his cards right. Of course, if he plays them wrong then he's probably going to get force choked, but that's the gamble you take hanging with Vader.

I suspect he's going to shine once he's out of Vader's shadow. I can see him pursuing some other agenda not entirely congruent with the Inquisitors', for example. I am expecting big things from Kallus, one way or the other, as he's pretty much the only remaining wild card in the deck canon-wise unless they surprise us all with the Inquisitors' impact and direction...

 

Yeah, totally. Kallus deserves some the time in the spotlight.

Speaking of characters that Vader overshadow with his awesome, man Ezra is really going full Jedi isn't he? Go look in the Ezra thread I just posted in for my breakdown, but he's becomes mature, heroic, and courageous, that while in skill he's not really good in the Jedi stuff, but Ezra has completely intergrated the Jedi philosophy into his world view. He's really coming into his own as character now, and part of me wish Vader wasn't there to overshadow Ezra. Then again, my favorite Ezra moment in Siege of Lothal was even after Erza had been made helpless, and was told by a Sith Lord himself that he would never become a Jedi, he's still completely willing to take him on, not because he wants to prove himself, but because he is geniunley not afraid. He's willing to die doing the right thing even after facing a Sith Lord, completely helpless. That says so much about how awesome Ezra is, that I just can't put into words. (Looks back at all the words i Just wrote about how awesome Ezra is.) Actually, I guess I did put into words. Heh..

 

By tremendous role I hope you mean a horrible death in episode 2 from Zeb shoving Chopper up his.....nevermind.

 

Why don't they show Sheev when Vader speaks to him?

 

I am assuming its because they are reflecting the style of the OT where up until ROTJ we got very limited Sheev.

 

Maybe because he's currently talking on his "other" throne and we don't want to see that.

 

I was hoping we'd be in store for some awesome "Emperor on Coruscant" action this season. But now? It looks to me like they're saving it.

Sheev's the ultimate reveal still left for the series.

 

Are you implying that they'll be something interesting about Sheev's face? That's the best explanation I've heard.

 

The Kallus/Vader professional relationship is nothing new, it's just like Daine Jir/Vader in ANH. For some reason, most people forget that this guy existed.

 

Not I.

I thought Jir was great in his limited role and I think it would be terrific fun to see him again some time. Not only because I liked him in the film, but also because I'd like to find out who the commander of the Imperial 501st is these days, and based upon his appearance in ANH, Jir would seems a possibility (Praji being another).

Not exactly. What I meant was, they've already given us the likes of Obi-Wan Kenobi (well, kind of), 3-PO and R2, Bail, Lando, Ahsoka, Rex and now the biggest fish of them all, Darth Vader. That being the case, other than possibly Leia (who would make some good sense showing up, I think) the Emperor is really the last main character who has yet to appear on the "great cavalcade of stars."**

This, taken with the secretive and locked-away nature of Sidious during this time period means that, to me, it's not surprising that the show's producers are going to tease the reveal for a while. We're all waiting to see Palpatine and the folks in charge know it.

By the time we have our first on-screen look at the Emperor in this time period -- at the very height of his political gains and personal powers -- Sheev ought to be a glorious thing to behold. It's going to be awesome. My only question is whether we will have the honor of seeing HRH in the flesh, locked away in his Jedi Temple-cum-Imperial Palace, or if we'll only ever see him in hologram form?

As to his face? I haven't heard anything specific, but I am very much looking forward to our first look at the Emperor's character design. Seeing as Rebels relies on a stylized interpretation of its characters, Sidious' visage should prove interesting.

I wonder, have we any McQuarrie ESB/ROTJ concept work for Palpatine (where we can really see his face, I mean)? If so, something like that may help to light our way.

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**But you know, I probably spoke too soon. After all, we haven't seen Luke or Solo yet.

I mean, the good Lord knows I love Luke Skywalker like no other, and I'm as big a fan of Han Solo as anyone else. But as I see it, either one showing up in the show is just about the very last thing we need to see in Rebels, eh?

 

darklordoftech

These are awesome. Other than the blue Emperor frying Luke (and maybe the one after it you posted in your edit) these are all new to me. Thanks!

So, whether it be something as simple as the clothing (I like the color, cut and drape of the outfit worn in that last shot), or something more radical, as in elements of the (almost alien-looking) facial design, if Filoni and Co.'s history with incorporating McQuarrie concept designs into the show is anything to go by, we might expect some kind of nod to these works, once we finally do see the Emperor on screen.

Very interesting.

 

Yea but that only works for very young kids who never saw Star Wars and that would indeed make it a simply fact this show is obviously more geared towards a new generation rather than the bread and butter fans of TCW and long time fans going back to 1977.

 

By never saw Star Wars, means never saw TCW either which did not end a decade or two ago afterall. They want a "hey daddy and mommy who is that scary voiced guy Vader is talking to", the kids would be quite young and any adults would've never had seen Star Wars period. TCW already played the rarely seen Sidious and if or when you did it was a hologram until later seasons when they made him more action orientated to coincide with ROTS. If they're repeating the same logic this time around they're going for specific demographic even younger and more ignorant that the TCW's. You'd have to really expect people never to have watched ESB, ROTJ , the entire PT and TCW.