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Full Series Rebels 3.15 - Trials of the Darksaber - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Completed Shows' started by Todd the Jedi , Jan 18, 2017.

  1. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2014
    Her face is cute in that pic.
     
  2. DarthTalgus

    DarthTalgus Force Ghost star 4

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    Sep 3, 2012
    Fantastic episode, one the best episodes of the series in fact 9,5/10 :sabine:

    +The character development was spectacular in this episode, we got so much depth from the characters involved
    +The Voice Acting was incredible, you could feel the emotions from the characters pouring out.
    +We finally got to find out about Sabine's past
    +It was a nice change of pace to get a slow, character driven episode for once
    +Nice cameos from Bendu and the Convorees
    +More Mandalorian lore and expanding of the Star Wars Mythology :D
    -It did drag on at some points tho

    ''You must use all of your skills together''- Kanan Jarrus
     
  3. TheMDOSS1313

    TheMDOSS1313 Jedi Master star 1

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    Sep 8, 2013
    Absolutely loved this episode. It was a great "pick me up" after having been rather underwhelmed with Ghosts of Geonosis(it didn't quite hit all the highs I had hoped for although not an awful episode). This episode included some great animation in character's faces as well in the Darksaber effects. The dialogue was very, very well written and well acted(with the exception of Sabine's teen angst at the beginning of the episode. But this is more an issue with how Star Wars presents conflict in young people which often comes across as bratty; i.e. Luke, Anakin, Ahsoka, Ezra, etc.) I am entirely enamored byKevin Kiner's score in this episode. The best it has been since Twilight of the Apprentice and Thrawn's theme. Overall, spectacular episode in what has so far been a very average season. Shame there is another hiatus but if the follow up episode is as great as this one then it will have been worth the wait.
     
  4. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 21, 2014
    [face_laugh]
     
  5. StarWarsFreak93

    StarWarsFreak93 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 20, 2015
    This episode was just fantastic! Nothing else I can add that hasn't been said to death here already, so... It had great character interaction. Ezra and Sabine's scenes were really touching and emotional. "At least you have parents to go back to..." Damn Ezra, right in the feels. :(
     
  6. Vegeta Daimo

    Vegeta Daimo Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 30, 1999
    Good lord that was a great episode, so good that I almost convinced myself to buy either of Sabine's Star Wars Black action figs, but the faces on the figures look so off that I just couldn't do it. I can't wait to see if the next episode "Legacy of Mandalore" tops it, really hoping that Fenn Shysa & Boba Fett make it into Rebels in that episode. :boba:

    I got a bit emotional listening to Sabine talk about her past with her family. :_|
     
  7. DavrelKex

    DavrelKex Jedi Knight star 2

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    Aug 18, 2016

    As a fellow Mando fan, I would tone down that hope. It's not going to happen.
     
  8. Vegeta Daimo

    Vegeta Daimo Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 30, 1999

    Yeah, good point, thanks. Since it'll mainly deal with the Wren clan & the fight for the leadership of the Deathwatch, I guess it would be weird for Shysa & Fett or Scar to show up. So if not Shysa, then who is the Mand'alor during this time period?
     
  9. DavrelKex

    DavrelKex Jedi Knight star 2

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    Aug 18, 2016

    1. Fenn Rau is the NuCanon Shysa.
    2. The Fetts are not Mandalorian. Jango claimed to be from Concord Dawn and the both wore the armor, those are the only connections.
    3. There is no Mand'alor. There is Gar Saxon, Viceroy of Mandalore.
     
  10. Noir Deux

    Noir Deux Jedi Knight star 2

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    Sep 27, 2015
    The episode was great, they have been since they came back this year, even the last one.

    The VA was indeed amazing and also the script, it felt mature and it gave depth to what they were saying, I don't know how or why but when Kanan said that the darksaber was ancient and heavy but powerful, I felt like I could feel/sense that it was indeed heavy and that Kanan's light saber was so light/thin.

    They packed everything in 21 minutes, great job!
     
  11. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2014
    Ya totally not happening especially because Boba Fett is no longer Canon and Fenn Rua is already a character and I'd doubt they would use to characters with the same first name.
     
  12. Vegeta Daimo

    Vegeta Daimo Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 30, 1999
    It's too bad, I really liked Shysa & all his flirting with Leia. Oh well, another cool character fell victim to the canon wars, I guess I don't mind tho, all those old Marvel Star Wars comics will always be with me.

    Good looking out man, I watched Imperial Supercommando's tonite & the TCW episode where Maul killed Pre Vizsla & a few other episodes too, read Wookiepeadia stuff so I hope I'm caught up with all new Mandalorian info. Now I got a month to wait until the next SWRebels episode, I hope that episode is purely a Sabine & the Mandos thing.
     
  13. DavrelKex

    DavrelKex Jedi Knight star 2

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    Aug 18, 2016
    I recommend reading everything here, http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mandalorian. It sounds like you're pretty out of date with who and what the Mandalorians are in the canon nowadays.

    The next episode is "Legacy of Mandalore" so I think it's a safe-bet it's going to be entirely Mando-centric.
     
  14. Vegeta Daimo

    Vegeta Daimo Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 30, 1999
    I've followed that Mando wookie article for years, was just not completely caught up with mando stuff from TCW & Rebels, moreso Rebels than TCW anyways. I've been loving Rebels. What I meant about about the "Legacy of Mandalore" thing is that I hope Ezra, Kanan, Hera & all just conveniently have a mission somewhere else. Sabine's mando history, heck mandos in general take a backseat to all the Jedi stuff going on. It's tough being a fan.
     
  15. DavrelKex

    DavrelKex Jedi Knight star 2

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    Aug 18, 2016

    We know Fenn Rau, Kanan, and Ezra go with her on the mission.
     
  16. Vegeta Daimo

    Vegeta Daimo Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 30, 1999
    Maybe Kanan & Ezra can go explore Mandalore, get themselves some besker'gam made & ask Sabine & her family to fill them & us the audience in on some more mando history. Be pretty cool. The Mandalorian Jedi history that Kanan & Fenn talked about in this episode is a perfect example.
     
  17. Nevil_Clavain

    Nevil_Clavain Jedi Youngling

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    Jan 19, 2017
    I thought Bendu was going to say something. Maybe later; something like: "Damn she fine".
     
  18. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2014
    Yep you seemed pretty caught up now.
     
  19. MandoArtist

    MandoArtist Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 12, 2015
    I was thinking he was gonna talk with Sabine, maybe ask her to stop abusing his foot.

    Could non-force sensitives even talk with Bendu?
     
  20. Canyon D

    Canyon D Jedi Knight star 4

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    Nov 17, 2015
    yeah what the heck is up with the Bendu, such an intriguing character, why was he in this episode?
     
  21. MandoArtist

    MandoArtist Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 12, 2015
    I think it was just a cool cameo. No real purpose, though.
     
  22. Starwarsfan9000

    Starwarsfan9000 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2012
    A very well done episode. Brought a lot of answers while also being a good learning experience for the characters. Having only one plot and taking a break from the main plot with the Empire with no other subplot and focusing on character development I thought was a good move and I kind of wish we could do that with some of the other characters. I know everyone in some capacitiy is tied to the Empire in their history but I wish they could maybe do an episode without necessarily using the Empire as a backdrop. This episode proves you can do that but then again the history of Mandalore and exploring a family I guess can allow that. I don't know but there's more reasons to like this episode.

    The 2-D animated history of the Darksaber was well done and animated. Felt like I was seeing a backstory from Lord of the Rings in how it was given so much history and weight to what was essentially in the beginning a lightsaber sword that looked cool and was a unique thing for Pre Vizsla to have. It expands on what Pre Vizsla told back in Season 2 while confirming he was somewhat right that the Jedi did take this weapon from his House so in some respects he had the right to take it back. I kind of now hope this means we might finally start to get stories told in a new Old Republic era for cannon down the line be it in comic book form or if they are willing movie form which is in some respects a good way to describe this episode. It felt like a mini movie.

    The animation and use of music I thought was well done even if at times Sabine's face and feels of emotion didn't quite match the real raw emotion I felt in Tiya's voice acting but I guess that's the limit of animation. If this were a movie it would have been a full on award worthy performance (It still is in voice acting alone but I'll get to that).

    The uses of humor also worked to lighten the tension but also helped inform character. Sabine's feigned attempt at confidence early on being confused as to why they were training the way they were and then her attempt to feel superior when she gets her upgrades from Rauu were I think her way of hiding the raw emotions that come out later. She's explosive and expressive in terms of art but also a bit snarky and cynical to some degree because she has these bottled up emotions and we've been building to this from Season 1 and now we let that all out and I think it was a great move but I'll get to her in a moment.

    The supporting characters of this episode also worked well in their roles. Each has a part to play. Ezra is there to teach Sabine that he knows training with Kanan or being a warrior isn't easy but it's also hard to let go emotionally. I thought their moment where Sabine says she isn't afraid of training with the blade she's afraid of the responsibilities that come with it and that she couldn't go back and face her family as Ezra replies "At least you have a family to go back too" I thought was a pretty poignant moment and shows how far their relationship has come since the days of Ezra trying to impress her and her not taking him seriously.

    Rather than lash out at her responses he tries to appeal to her and when he realises she can't accept the idea that she isn't a disgrace because in the eyes of her family she is he gets it and walks away accepting her imperfections. He knows now she isn't perfect but that's okay because he isn't either. It's a true sign of friendship. She was there in the beginning for him to help him deal with his family and now he's returning the favour. They work better really as the brother and sister both felt they needed one as a replacement in some respects the other filling the place that never existed.

    As others have pointed out it was interesting that the Bendu randomly appeared but didn't say or do anything. I wonder if they planned a scene for him to talk with Sabine and recorded it and deleted it or maybe they wrote it but never shot it and maybe saved it for later. Sabine getting advice from the Bendu wouldn't be a bad thing and also could show that not just Kanan and Ezra can turn to him anyone who's in need of guidance can and much like Kanan in the beginnning of this season, Sabine in some respects felt like an imbalance and I wonder if that's what woke up him more then her just kicking him. I think there might be more to that but who knows we'll have to wait and see.

    Rauu also has come a long way from a guy who started out as a villain to one who is actually more of a true Mandalorian then one would think. He is in some respects what Pre Vizsla could have been if he wasn't blinded by power and greed. He wants to bring honour and justice back to Mandalore but was beaten down by war and so much conflict he feels now all that is left is to turn to the Empire like everyone else did until Sabine reminds him that's not what honour is in Mandalore. "You haven't forgotten our ways. That has earned my respect." Now he has a reason to fight again. He is more than willing to fight alongside someone who he didn't believe in initially do her age and sense of character if it means bringing peace and order back to their people and planet. I look forward to seeing him continue more and serve as Sabine's right hand in some respects unless he is killed off which would suck but as long as he goes out like a true warrior then I don't mind.

    Hera again serves as the conscience mostly to Kanan reminding him that not everything is about him and that while she understands he's protecting her Sabine will never truly be able to wield the blade if she doesn't connect with her emotions and confront them head on. I'm glad she acknowledged that she knows where Sabine comes from that trying to live up to your family and feel like you let them down isn't easy. It's a common real life thing and I get the feeling many people who watch this episode will relate to Sabine's struggle in more ways then one and to a lesser extent Hera's. I found myself relating in some respects less so trying to please family but more so making myself feel more fulfilled. If you let yourself down you let everyone down regardless so the most important thing is to believe yourself first.

    Kanan's methods I thought were a bit rash and harsh but understanding. He's not being entirely cruel he's a Jedi why would he. What he's doing is being realistic in some respects but also it becomes obsessive for him too to some degree. When he mentions about the Jedi winning the war against Mandalore and how he doesn't want this to be treated as some game he feels like he doesn't want to let anyone down as a teacher. He still in some respects while he's more connected now through being blind maybe in the back of his mind still feels a tad weak and unsure and doesn't want that to reflect on Sabine because her emotions and how she handles something like this is different to someone like Ezra because she's being consumed by anger and is conflicted and doesn't have the Force to guide her and help her control her emotions. The Force resides in all living beings as he says but Sabine isn't in tune to use it because she's not Force sensitive nor is she a Jedi so it's tougher.

    It's been said in interviews that Kanan's battles throughout the series that deal with inner struggle and turmoil have all been a test and are actually teaching him to be a better teacher more so now that he's blind he has to rely more on seeing beyond a surface level what he would have seen before because he could see it with working eyes. He adopts in this episode a bit of training technique from The Grand Inquisitor (Dooku also uses this style and used it in training Savage which I could see people comparing it too and people have compared this too it) who might have been his enemy and may be long gone but his defeat was Kanan's first step to letting go of the mantle of Padawan and become a Jedi Knight by rising above the stronger adversary and winning. The Grand Inquisitor may have taken his own life but Kanan in the end beat him and was victorious which was what that victory was about and not about killing him. He also adopts his style of getting into the person's head and realising that if Sabine is going to overcome this he's going to have to taunt her and let her show her true emotions and let them all out. Whatever she uses against him she's not directing towards Kanan she's directing them towards herself and his words aren't really how he's feeling it's how she's feeling on the inside, he's just the mouth piece.

    There's probably more to go on but I don't want to prolong it but I thought that Freddie did a good job in this episode in particular and should be complimented for his work.

    But the star of the episode was Sabine herself. While like I said the facial animation didn't quite match with the raw voice acting at times, Tiya Sircar's honest and true emotional delivery throughout the episode and definitely at the end more than makes up for that and it's worthy of being nominated for an award.

    From the beginning we've known Sabine is a bit reserved and also reluctant to open up emotionally and expresses her emotions through her art and how she conducts things. She doesn't take Ezra seriously at first in the beginning because she feels he's a kid who is just going through a phase but even then she's still too bottled up emotionally to handle something like that now. In some respects having Thrawn serve as the villain of the season who's philosophy is that if you study one's art you get a better sense of their history and philosophy as we learn more about Sabine the resident artist is no accident I feel. Sabine hides behind what was on the surface a kind of cynical and snarky attitude a form of reluctance and fear and also frustration. We know from Season 1 she doesn't like to be kept in the dark even though ironically she does the same thing with herself by keeping everyone in the dark about who she really is because if the truth comes out it's just going to hurt people and that's part of why she didn't open up.

    But as some people can say be it knowing people who have experienced things like this in the past or reading about it bottling up emotions isn't easy for health and if you let them go too long one day they'll burst in a place you can't control. That's why Kanan knew he had to goad her into letting them out now rather than have them explode out uncontrollably. Explode like the weapons Sabine developed.

    Having it be that Sabine developed weapons that hurt her people both family and friends makes sense because we know she's an expert weapons developer for the team and it's interesting that the Empire would take such young people and task them with such a responsibility but maybe it's less tasking many people more rather tasking people they see potential in. I'd now be totally down for a Sabine comic or novel that details her early days with her family her time in the Imperial Academy and then how she came across Kanan and Hera. Hera reminds us again she was reluctant to trust them in the beginning because of the feeling of betrayal she felt from her family and that back in Season 1 when Hera is reluctant to fill her in on the full details of their mission she's frustrated because it feels liek people still don't trust her with things even though they know she's no longer part of the Empire. I've always said filler isn't a bad thing if it finds a way to serve the story and characters again later. Avatar The Last Airbender was good at proving this and given Dave started out on that show earlier in his career it's no surprise he's still taking those lessons and applying them to his own work now.

    Dave's point in the Recon about how this is more about character development and connecting with her inner self rather then just training with a sword I thought was a point that made sense and is what this episode should be about and it was. Again Sabine admits to Ezra it's less about the blade and more about it's responbilities and what it brought to her family that she feared. She makes the point that it feels heavy and it's only later once it becomes a part of her that she connects with it that it feels lighter but that she needs to use everything she has in order to truly master it. Kanan points out how it connects to her mind and is like a current of energy flowing through the blade that while it's old the pull can be felt instantly and if she respects its strength despite it being heavy it'll connect more and that's why it lightens.

    Getting back to the revelations we learned that she does have a father (whether he's alive at this point who knows) and also a brother which surprised me even Ezra is shocked and I think his response visually is meant to represent our own feelings. Which brings me back to that point I mentioned earlier about how Ezra in some respects feels like a replacement brother for her. I'm sure she and her brother were once close about as close as she is with Ezra by this point but when her family allied with the Empire that drove them apart obviously. It'll be interesting to see how the two siblings differ and if we'll get much interaction. We know her mother will serve a big part but I'm curious to see even more of her family.

    Sabine makes the point that Mandalore is enslaved by fear which in old tradition wouldn't be something they felt. The people of Mandalore are proud and would never submit so easily to someone else. But the Empire was powerful enough to invoke that fear and their use of weapons on a world already divided by a Civil War prior to them arriving I think was just them finally surrendering and realising that no more damage could be done to their planet that already wasn't done. Sabine couldn't live with herself that she helped enslave her people unwillingly so and when she wanted to help and repair the damage she caused her family chose accepting fear and submission rather than believe in her.

    It's dark stuff for someone of Sabine's age and to have gone through all that and to have carried that for so long without breaking I think is a testament to her character as Kanan pointed out. I've liked Sabine in the series but I was waiting for that turning point that serves as pushing her character even further from a supporting character to a potential leading character in her own right in the way Kanan, Ezra and Hera already have gotten and this was it. Not to throw any criticism to Zeb or anything he's had his moments too both the last episode and The Honourable Ones proved he too has a sense of character but I'm waiting to get a big moment like Sabine, Ezra, Kanan and Hera have in coming to terms with their history. Forgiving Kallus and recruiting him to their cause and also helping colonise the Lasats on Lyrasan were big steps but I think there's potential for more.

    There's probably more that I missed (I'm not very good with first impressions really. Usually it takes me watching someone else's in dept analysis while re-watching something be it a film or TV show a couple times after with this stuff in mind along with my own thoughts prior to re-watching before fully I form my thoughts into something cohesive. Mostly to help see things from a different point of view or a certain point of view you might say before I make my full decision on what I think of this fully. It's kind of why I don't try and seek out many things even though I really should because I am an aspiring writer because I doubt my skills in analysis sometimes but I'm trying to get over that and work to make things better. There's a lot out there that I haven't seen that if I told someone what I haven't seen chances are they'd think I was crazy how I've gone this long without seeing such and such) but overall a well done episode and I'm looking forward to more of Sabine's struggles with her people and uniting them together in the future next episode.
     
  23. Canyon D

    Canyon D Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 2015
    that would make no sense though. Like a cameo is seeing Chopper in Rogue One, but this is a character FROM the actual show, you cant have a cameo of a character in the same show he was introduced.
     
    The Shadow Emperor and fett 4 like this.
  24. episodenone

    episodenone Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 13, 2001
    Jeez -- what a great episode. The Tar Visla stuff and the way it resembles previously seen artwork was fraggin awesome.

    Let me point out what seemed completely obvious to me re: The Bendu. Kanan and Hera just discussed Sabine not being able to find balance. What is the Bendu supposed to represent? Balance.

    Why does anyone think The Bendu had a conversation with Sabine off-screen? She was walking away, she would not ever even know to look for something like that, and all he did was peek at her likely because of what Kanan mentioned to Hera about the Force ... which for the life of me I cannot believe has not been discussed by anyone that I noticed.

    Kanan implies to me that using the Force is no more than being open to using the Force. It flows through everything -- and he clearly could care less about the Midichlorians. Some may find it much easier [perhaps due to high Midichlorian count] and thus grasp it all without even trying like Anakin does with Pod Racing --- but this is a description of using the force I have yet to see anywhere else in Canon.

    I'm going to rewatch it -- but sure seems to imply that Sabine needs to find herself in the force -- and would explain why the Bendu gives her a glance. She is angry and he senses her using the Dark Side -- even if she thinks she is just kicking a rock.

    I know there are a lot of Mando'ade junkies in this thread -- but I think this is the more important takeaway from this episode by far. And one that will have repercussion throughout stories and mixed media for years to come in the GFFA.
     
  25. Nevil_Clavain

    Nevil_Clavain Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2017
    Holy Crap dude! I cut and pasted this into WORD and its just under 3000 words! My english requirement at U of R was 10000 so you're a third of the way there. Is there a Cliffs Notes version of this? :)
     
    Canyon D and Todd the Jedi like this.