Full Series Rebels 4.01-4.02 - Heroes of Mandalore - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Are you really that salty over five episode of four seasons? Is that really too much for a very large portion of the fandom to have, considering we would likely not have gotten it elsewhere?

 

I don't care if it's possible. It's done and gone. I want new things that are good.

 

And considering one of the main characters is a Mandalorian and therefore having a Mandalorian arc at some point was completely feasible and logical.

"Sabine is such a Mary Sue. She needs development, or to die".
"Okay, have an Mandalorian arc decdicated to her development after 2.5 seasons of nothing for them".
"Lol what a waste"

:/

 

No, I don't.

And to make matters worse, there are those people who tell Clone Wars fans that Rebels is better, and they're just butthurt because we don't agree. I'm one of the managers of the CWA emulator, we get that type of hate
mail all the time. It's funny until a grown man aprox 30 years old, tells a teenager (me), that I'm wrong in my opinion (and keep in mind that this happened in person).

 

People have strong opinions. TCW fans have gotten upset at me for thinking Rebels is better. Like you, I'm just a poor little teenager...

That's quite strange, because in all my browsing of Star Wars communities, the hate for Rebels by TCW fans is much more vocal than vice versa. No one actually hates on TCW from what I see, it's the next best thing since sliced Uj cake apparently.

But debates on Rebels VS TCW aren't allowed on this forum. So I'm dropping it.

 

I was a loyal viewer of Clone Wars since I was 6. I made lifelong friends because of that show. I bought tons of spin-off comics, books, and action figures. Then just like that, already after a teaser for season 6. It was axed.
5 years of great storytelling and character, killed unceremoniously.

I'm sure if you were that attached to Rebels, and it just ended, you would feel the same way.

If you click the link on my signature, I've explained it in depth.

 

Sure, I also grew up with TCW. It's a great show and it's sad it's gone. But I still like Rebels too.

 

Does everyone forget that Bo-Katan tried to help slaughter at least one village of natives... (cause it doesn't matter if they're not Mandalorians) in the clone wars... she's not the golden leader she appears to be.
Also, she first refused the position of leader of Mandalore in the first episode yet it seemed far too quick by the end of the two parter for her to suddenly switch sides.
I find it too a bit dumb and hypocritical that she wouldn't use the weapon against the fight against the empire... something like that could be gold to resistance cells (although I'd see why Mothma's wouldn't use it.
It seems I'm droning on about her hypocrisies^

 

Well that's been something I've been suggesting all along. Getting a little off-topic, but

Spoiler

I've always been under the impression that Rey had Kenobi blood in her; and if you think about it it's not too farfetched to consider the possibility that Obi-Wan fathered a child with Satine, who was cast off in obscurity through the end of the Clone Wars and even through the end of the Empire, only to reemerge as Luke's partner (though she'd probably be a few years older than him; but that didn't stop his father). The only thing in question would be why Luke himself wouldn't have known he had a daughter (or at least sensed her when she met him at the end of TFA)

Well in the memorable "Lawless" episode of TCW, Bo-Katan was pretty much reconciled with the Mandalorians upon the death of her sister; even so much so as helping Kenobi fight the Death Watch.

 

I posted about this a couple pages ago, but I think the show did a good job of implying the change without bogging down the narrative for people who aren't familiar with TCW. IMO it would've felt like a waste of time, and probably awkwardly crammed in, to what spell out the type of person she was before almost 20 years of growth and self reflection made her who she is in the present story. My original thoughts:

 

I didn't connect with this episode at all. Partly my fault, because I've never really liked Mandalorian storylines anyway, apart from a couple of episodes of TCW and Rebels... I even care more for Zeb and his people (and their vanished storyline) than for Sabine and her family.

I wish the focus was back on Ezra, Kanan, Hera, Kallus (my favourite Rebels character now) and the Rebellion. I suppose we'll get to that, but after the fantastic Season 2 opening and ending, and the great Season 3 opening, I was disappointed by this two-parter.

Spoiler

What I liked:
- the sinister Imperial plot surrounding Sabine's weapon,

What I didn't:
- I'm not sure why, but this episode in particular looked cheap to me...
- I appreciate the producers' attempt to give Sabine her arc, but I just don't care
- what's up with Ezra? He's been going downhill as a character since early Season 3, but now he almost reverted back to his Season 1 persona,
- I was bored by the action, which is a shame, because Rebels usually does this right

It seems to me that LFL is concentrating more on future content than elevating Rebels to a late-TCW storytelling level.

 

If you can find me a famous historical leader who won their throne/seat/position to lead a united peoples through military prowess, who is perfect and unmarred by some sort of brutal strife towards someone(s) in their history...I'll eat my hat.

Off the top of my head, Julius Cesar, Ghengis Khan, Ieyasu Tokugawa all had histories of sometimes brutal oppression of those that opposed them. They made for great leaders...but great leaders are rarely "golden".

 

I kept expecting Bo-Katan to bring up the fact that the darksaber was the weapon that killed her sister.

 

Gandhi? Nelson Mandela? Both great leaders with much peace in their movements...

 

I thought there were many interesting many concepts presented here, but the way it was told felt rather flat, cheap and rushed. It would have probably been better if they had just took their time to let the drama sink in (and not opting out of it) and took the necessary episodes to develop the story in an organic way that led to them earning their victory and Bo-Katan inheriting the darksaber in way that felt deserving, and in not a “she’s a fan favorite anyway” type of way as it was told. I’m not even a fan of Sabine, but Sabine earned that saber a lot more that Conveniently Whitewashed Bo-Katan did.

Also, Ezra. Ugh.

There were some highlights though:

- Hera and Kanan’s conversation.
- Thrawn felt appropriately evil as well as in-character
- The way they saved Sabine’s father was rather creative.
- Sabine naming her weapon “The Duchess” and saying “it was a serious of bad decisions” made me laugh. Best line.

 

Firstly, Ghandi is a leader who doesn't ascribe to the tenets of "uniting many peoples/tribes under one leader" via military prowess...so that's not a viable answer to my query, or example.

Secondly, Nelson Mandela was a great leader. But if you think his leadership position was won without strife aimed at others...you either weren't alive (or weren't paying attention) during Apartheid. He spent years as a revolutionary fighting against an entrenched regime gov't bent on keeping his people down under heel. Imagining he came out of that clean, is a pipe dream. Make no mistake...he was a GREAT man...and a phenomenal leader and one who often in his life sought peace...but that leadership came after years of strife, war, and imprisonment.

Any others?

Look, I'm sure you can cherry pick out one or two actual examples that might on the surface appear to derail my point...but the vast majority of instances in the history of civilization....many tribes/peoples being united under one leader...has come at the head of strife and struggle, and the person who owns that, is the leader who ends up with the moniker of "great".

A few more examples.

Alfred of Wessex (Alfred The Great), Zenobia of Palmyrene (Syria), Hannibal, Scipio Africanus, Alexander (The Great), Cyrus (Persia), Alaric (Visigoths), Vercingetorix (Gaulic Celts)...

The list keeps going. All of these are considered history's GREAT leaders (and generals from a military POV), all of whom united peoples...but that all comes with bloodshed.

 

...?

 

I think you are assuming the wrong definition of the word.

 

I see.

 

So I watched the episodes too:

Things I liked:

- Bo-Katan as Mandalore (and especially not Sabine).
- Seeing Mandalore outside of the capital city.
- A little bit of Mandalorian Lore.
- The idea of the super weapon is creative.
- The Star Destroyer outside of the capital looked cool.
- Stormtroopers and Mandalorians fight together.

Things I didn't liked:

- Ezra (all of his "funny" scenes were unnecessary).
- Sabine's mother and brother surivived the super weapon (would really make a deep scene if Sabine's weapon would have killed her mother and brother).
- No clear answer what happens to Mandalore during the OT.

Question: Is there a reason why Saxon called Thrawn? I mean wouldn't he call Tarkin or someone like that in this scenario? IDK...

 

I liked it, but I am very disappointed that Tristan and Ursa lived when that was such a cop-out. Also by this point is Bo around 60?