Rebirth Reviewed! (spoilers-Major!) or NJO: Becoming What It Ought To Be

Addendum to my last comment:

If we treat 18 as the age of adulthood, then you can add Rebirth the list of books told mostly from an adult perspective.

 

The Solo Kids have been referred to Super Kids because it just seems like they're doing almost everything from flying around in their little X-Wings to running off and taking on an entire fleet.

Luke and Leia were 18(or 20) during ANH, there really isn't that much of a difference between the Skywalker twins to the Solo kids, except for the fact that the Skywalkers act more like adults during 18 then the Solo kids do. They were already more mature then the Solo kids were at the beginning of the NJO. Luke was thrown into the middle of a battle and he fought because he had to survive. The Solo kids seem to get themselves in trouble purposely. They actually run off and look for it, fully knowing the consequences it might have.

First of all, he didn't actually name the boy Obi-Wan, which is the name he was discussing in the first chapter. As other people have pointed out, General Kenobi was better known as "Obi-Wan" than "Ben." I'm dubious that the boy will feel as much pressure with the name "Ben" than with the name "Obi-Wan."

I don't really think it matters to Luke if he was referring to him as Ben or Obi-Wan, to him and Mara they are the same person that he worshipped as a hero.

 

I'm a bit confused and won't have the book for weeks yet, hence spoilers pls:

Is Leia aware of the fact she is an Aunty? or is it just her kids that know Ben has been born??.

If just the kids is the storyline missing something? No-one bothered to contact Leia to let her know?(9 months) about the pregnancy or birth?

Geez not a close family are they..

 

<<To repeat myself, "Mara was also holding the Force within herself to fight the disease. I'm doubtful that she would have manifested a strong presence in the Force to Luke or to anyone else." >>

Where in VP does it say this?


<<Other than the fact that Anakin has been the "star" of Edge of Victory taken in its totality, which provides a good storytelling reason to put Anakin there), sixteen-year old Anakin meeting baby Ben contains strong symbolism.>>


Sorry, but Anakin was not the star of Rebirth. The birth of Luke's son is a very important event and it's one that his twin sister should have been a part of. There's no excuse for leaving Leia out of this.



<<Is Leia aware of the fact she is an Aunty? or is it just her kids that know Ben has been born??.>>

We have no idea if Leia is aware of being an aunt. There is nothing in either book that indicates that Leia knows she's an aunt. Her kids know, but poor Leia has no idea. The Solo kids are the only ones that matter.


<<Geez not a close family are they...>>

Yeah, Luke seems to have forgotten he has a twin sister. She was completely left out of a very important event in her brother's life. Her children were a part of it, but not Leia. Sad.

 

Hope's right. So far we've seen Mara and Luke getting some scenes together, the kids have scenes together, the kids and Luke and Mara have scenes together, the kids and Han and Leia have scenes together, and Han and Leia now have scenes together. The one thing that there has been little of are scenes between Luke, Mara, Leia, and Han or a combination of those. VP did have some, but lately there has been nothing. Luke and Leia were always very close throughout the EU and more scenes with the adults together would be welcome.

 

Hope--

Throughout the NJO, Mara harbors her strength in the Force to fight her disease. E.g., from page 79 of the hardback edition of VP (Chapter 6, during Mara's talk with Leia):

Every time the disease had cropped up, Mara had focused her strength, had focused the Force inward, and beat it back.

And on Belkadan, the disease flared up again, presumably because of the presence of all the little YV buggies. She feels something as they approach Belkadan (p. 238):

Mara didn't disagree, but her concerned look was not lost on Luke. Neither was her color; Luke had noted that Mara's complexion had paled as they had approached Belkadan, and he could sense her internal weakening.

And again, after she fights Yomin Carr and Luke shows up (p. 254):

It all hit Mara then, the exertion, the wounds, and something about the very nature of this poisoned planet that tugged at her insides, as if this disease within her fed off the perversion of Belkadan.

When I say...

I'm doubtful that she would have manifested a strong presence in the Force to Luke or to anyone else.

...I'm engaging in speculation, something signaled by the words I'm doubtful.... This speculation is based on the text of VP, Onslaught and other books in the NJO. A similar scene in Onslaught provides an example for both Mara and Anakin when they are on the run from the YV (page 199):

The young Jedi [Anakin] doused his lightsaber and darted off along after his aunt [Mara]. He tried to feel her with the Force, but she'd so effectively drawn it around her, using it to fight off the disease, that he could barely detect her. He knew he had to register just as faintly to her. He'd been hoarding his own strength and minimizing his strength in the Force just in case the Yuuzhan Vong had been using the Force to track them.

Notice that when Luke and Jacen find Mara and Anakin, they don't rely upon detecting Mara and Anakin in the Force (p. 202):

Anakin asks Jacen: "How did you find us?"

Jacen shrugged and nodded toward Luke. "He knew when and where to find you two. He had a vision, and it led him to Dantooine. We might not have been able to pick the Yuuzhan Vong out with the Force, but plenty of the wildlife here in this forest scattered from them, so we headed for where life wasn't."

Satisfied?

Sorry, but Anakin was not the star of Rebirth.

And I didn't say he was. I said that he was the star of Edge of Victory, the duology title that encompasses both Conquest and Rebirth, exactly like Han was the star of Agents of Chaos. Even if he isn't the star of the second book, Anakin remains a major player in Rebirth.

The birth of Luke's son is a very important event and it's one that his twin sister should have been a part of. There's no excuse for leaving Leia out of this.

In The Last Command, when Jacen and Jaina are born on Coruscant, Luke is not even on the planet. After Luke returns, Tim Zahn never shows Luke's first reaction to the twins. If it wasn't requisite for Luke to be part of the twins' birth, or for the author to show their uncle's first reaction to the twins, then I don't see why it was requisite for Leia to be part of Ben's birth, or for the author to show his aunt's first reaction to Ben.

Again, I think that Keyes had good storytelling and symbolic reasons for depicting Anakin and Ben together. I am doubtful that three or four additional scenes of other relatives oohing and aahing over the baby would have added much to the story.

Finally: No, Leia isn't with Luke during the months leading up to Mara's birth. Instead, she's on a mission for her brother and tending to her own disrupted marriage.

 

We haven't seen the entire family together in one place since VP. The end of chapter 46 (Rebirth) was the perfect opportunity for a family reunion.
We definately need more scenes with the adults interacting with one another. I can't even remember the last time Luke and Leia had a conversation.

 

One more thing, Jade Angel:

The Solo Kids have been referred to Super Kids because it just seems like they're doing almost everything from flying around in their little X-Wings to running off and taking on an entire fleet.

The Solo kids have the Jedi potential of their uncle and grandfather and have been trained as Jedi practically since birth. The combination of their innate talent in the Force and their years of training makes them unusually powerful for their age.

But that's just the family tradition. At the advanced age of nine, Anakin Skywalker was a champion podracer and quickly learned how to fly a starship. At age 18, Luke destroyed the Death Star in his maiden flight as a starfighter pilot. The kids' mother and grandmother got elected to positions of world leadership at ages 16 and 14, respectively. The Solo kids reflect the family to which they belong.

Luke and Leia were 18(or 20) during ANH, there really isn't that much of a difference between the Skywalker twins to the Solo kids, except for the fact that the Skywalkers act more like adults during 18 then the Solo kids do. They were already more mature then the Solo kids were at the beginning of the NJO.

You mean all the whining that Luke does early in ANH is the sound of a mature adult?

Luke was thrown into the middle of a battle and he fought because he had to survive.

Not really. Luke could have stayed on Tatooine. On the Death Star, he could have waited for Ben like he was instructed to, rather than chasing after Leia. On Yavin, he could have flown off with Han, rather than choosing to fight against the Death Star. As for Leia, she had a comfortable, promising life as an Imperial Senator. She could have avoided getting involved in the Rebellion at all.

The Solo kids seem to get themselves in trouble purposely. They actually run off and look for it, fully knowing the consequences it might have.

Just like their mother, father, and uncle. It runs in the family.

 

Here's a good example of what Jacen was going through:

"There is probably no more terrible instant of enlightenment than the one in which you discover your father is a man--with human flesh." - Dune

My guess Jacen realized this when Chewie died.

 

AnakinSS wrote:
Luke, Mara, and their newborn acted together to cure Mara of a fatal disease in the midst of a mystical experience in which they were fully attuned to the Force. The cure is a MYSTERY without rational explanation because the author intends it that way.

Well, it reads like an illogical copout to me. If he wanted it to be a mystery, he should have said something about Luke and Mara together discovering a new means of healing through their Forcebond or something like that. Otherwise, it just leaves a reader scratching his/her head and saying "Huh? Did they forget that Luke, Cilghal, and Mara couldn't do this before?" Or, it would have made sense if Luke and Cilghal had come up with some kind of a cure using the old Belkadan beetle that Luke and Mara found long ago and Luke hoped would be the key to a cure. Instead, the beetle is totally forgotten as many other plot points are in the NJO and we're given no real explanation. We have to come up with our own creative spins on just what happened. It just seemed as though Del Rey couldn't come up with a logical explanation for the cure so they figured they could justify anything by saying it was a 'mystery' if someone bothered to ask. They figured everyone would just be so glad that Mara was healthy that no one would care how it happened. I AM pleased that Mara no longer has the disease. It's about time! But a better explanation for how it happened would have been greatly appreciated.

Luke and Mara have a number of great scenes together, quite possibly the best scenes they've had as a couple in the NJO series. In a beautiful scene, Luke practically merges with Mara in the Force to help her survive her birth.

I will grant you that Luke and Mara had a few nice scenes together. That's exactly what I said before: The only thing Luke and Mara did in this book involved becoming parents. Isn't that what you just said in different words? Have either of them helped in the war effort at all since ONSLAUGHT? Have they given any direction to the Jedi? I think part of the reason for the huge split in the Jedi has been Luke's lack of active leadership and his indecisiveness in book after book. This has gotten very old....and very frustrating.

Corran guides two rambunctious teenagers past a massive Vong fleet.

Right, and those two teenagers end up saving his life and really do much more than Corran as I mentioned in a previous post. Except for turning on the air for them, Corran is pretty much along for the ride. Tahiri pilots the ship and is the interpreter; Anakin defeats the Vong warriors, provides the communications device, and comes up with all the ideas. Corran gives Anakin a lecture, but then backpedals and apologizes.

Kyp finally lands a major role as a successful conspirator to bring the fight to the Vong.

And Kyp seems to consider himself one of the kids. He's certainly less mature than most of the teenagers. I agree though that Kyp's role was an important one.

I'm dubious that the boy will feel as much pressure with the name "Ben" than with the name "Obi-Wan."

Do you think the child isn't going to know that they're one and the same person? He's still going to have the pressure of being named after his father's first mentor.

Second, Luke changed his mind about naming his son after his mentor. People who change their opinions after receiving new information are not necessarily hypocrites.

What new information was Luke given?

After his mystical experience with Mara and the newborn, Luke evidently felt that Ben was the proper name for the kid. Perhaps he felt that was the will of the Force. I don't know for sure.

Again, a little explanation, perhaps a short discussion between Luke and Mara would have made a huge difference. The book wasn't that long. This scene could have been added. Either that, or don't have Luke make the comment in the first chapter in the first place.

sixteen-year old Anakin meeting baby Ben contains strong symbolism.

WHY????

And Anak

 

The New Jedi Order: Young Jedi Knights II

 

I'm sorry, but can't some of you let go of the mains for once? Damn, Luke, Leia and Han have been at the head of every galactic incident for a 30 year period. That was ridiculous on its own, let alone allowing them to continue. It's about time that there's some new blood in the Star Wars EU. The X-Wing books were so much fun because we got to see the GFFA from other characters' viewpoints. Same with I, Jedi. Maybe there's only a few of us here, but I for one am a bit tired of seeing Han do the same damn thing every book. I'm perfectly fine with seeing new characters take the forefront. We've had 30 some odd books that focused on Luke, Han and Leia, why do we need another 18 (the NJO) or so also?

 

Bogga wrote:
I'm sorry, but can't some of you let go of the mains for once? It's about time that there's some new blood in the Star Wars EU. We've had 30 some odd books that focused on Luke, Han and Leia, why do we need another 18 (the NJO) or so also?

Anakin Solo and Tahiri were the stars of the 6 book Junior Jedi Knights series. Jaina and Jacen were the heroes of the 12 book Young Jedi Knights series. They played significant roles in some of the adult Bantam books too, even as young children.

I think Jacen was about 2 or 3 when he wielded a lightsaber in the Jedi Academy trilogy to help save his uncle's body, which was in some sort of stasis at the time. Anakin wasn't even born yet when he helped Luke and Leia defeat the reborn Emperor in DARK EMPIRE.

They were the major heroes of CRYSTAL STAR. They played very large roles in the Corellian Trilogy, and they were present in many other books too. So why do we need 18 or so NJO books that focus on Jaina, Jacen, and Anakin?

In fact, sometimes the NJO seems very much like the Young Jedi Knights series.

Why can't we have a nice balance between the kids and the adults? Why can't the adults be allowed to use their brains sometimes and not have every major creative idea come from a teenager?

One good thing about REBIRTH was that the adults and the kids were working together a little more instead of having the adults totally out of the action. Now, if we could have the adults rescue the teenagers now and then instead of having the adults rescued by them, or if we could have the adults come up with a solution to a problem rather than a teenager, that would be a refreshing change in the NJO. These books are supposed to be 'adult' novels. I'd like to see some adult characters actively involved in them.

 

I have a theory why Luke named his son Ben.

Just before Luke finally understood what he was suppose to do to help Mara fight the disease by helping to protect their son, he thought he heard Obi-Wan Kenobi preach to him.

What if Luke named his son Ben because Obi-Wan is reincarnated? (But also because he didnt want the burden the name Obi-Wan would put on the boy, too)

I mean the book is called "Rebirth" and the last part is called "Rebirth".

Reincarnation is another word for Rebirth after all.

 

Child of Winds. Wonderful! Exactly!!!

Bogga: Why can't we let go of the mains?

Why should I? I guess it doesn't matter that a portion of the SW audience is being disenfranchised. We should all just Love the Teenage heros. Sorry. If all I have to look forward to is "their" stories, with the Adults playing bit parts, then I have read my last SW book.

 

I've enjoyed reading this topic, and have for many days, I thought about dropping something in here before now, just never got around to it. There are many things to address, some of which involve some of the players in this topic but i'll ignore them for now.

What is there to say, it is a book of the NJO. What any of you were expecting is beyond me. The constant errors, spelling, continuity, characterizations and otherwise are trademark NJO. If I never see the word burred again I'll be a much happier fellow.

Really how hard is it to know what the Falcon has weapon wise? It hasn't been changed with the exception of just once during the BFC. Leia and everyone else even remotely in the know about the Falcon should know her by heart.

We learned a number of things. Where Lando has been, what Han and Leia have been up to, what Kyp has been doing with his dozen. We also see the deteriation of Lando and Kyp. Yet one more thing to chalk up to whoever is in charge of this mess.

The story was rather short. It worked though. Granted I was pulled out everytime their was a mistake and the word burred was used, but that was probably just me. The rest of the time it flowed nicely. Nothing to unpredicatble. I enjoyed the various one liners. Good times and laughter are a part of Star Wars, its nice to see that the editors and writers haven't totally forgotten.

What can i really say? Its the NJO, I don't like the NJO, this book wasn't good enough to make me like it in spite of it being NJO. Ill admit enjoying the skycrawlers birth, even though I didn't really care for how it was presented. The birth of Luke Skywalker's son is just such a huge moment, you can't help but be over joyed. I understood the Solo kids doubling over. It was meant to express just how badly Mara was hurting, it just fell flat. I think it would have been better if we felt the pain through Luke.

The nice thing to see is the use of other characters other that the Solo/Skywalkers. Yes I know the Solo/Skywalkers were still there, but at least they weren't the only one. Using Corran, Wedge, Kre'fry and the rest adds a much deeper feeling to the book. I don't have a problem with the kids being the focus. Every story has to have a focus. Otherwise you get lost. Thankfully this is Star Wars so sooner or later there will be a book, a story, something that will have another focus.

If you like the NJo, then you like this book. If you don't, you don't. Its the same old same old. I picked it up simply because I wanted to read the birth of the skycrawler. So thats all i've got, i'd really like to address some of the posters 'tudes in this topic but I don't really feel like getting into it. So enjoy!

 

A balance of the original mains and the new characters is needed. Books like Conquest were breaks from the mains and AA's duology will undoubtably feature many of his characters. However, many fans like myself feel a loyalty for the original movie characters. They're the ones who made us love Star Wars in the first place and we genuinely care about them and what happens to them. The other characters can be enjoyable to read about, but for sentinmental reasons, we don't want to ever see the mains go away or die.

 

Sorry, double post.

 

My point is that it is highly unrealistic for the same three characters to be at the forefront of every major galactic crisis for 30 years. It's the natural progression of life that people move into the spotlight and then are replaced. Luke, Han and Leia have fought that for ages. They can only be the GFFA's center of attention for so long. It's not like there are tons of people in our own world that have been at the forefront of all worldly affairs for 30 years straight. I just think that they've saved the galaxy enough and it's time for someone else to do it. I suppose you would be absolutely opposed to seeing any of them die, right? I also wouldn't be surprised to hear that you still don't believe that Chewbacca died.

 

I was sad that he died, but I can accept it, Bogga; I'm not that bad. And you make a good point; not many people are on the forefront of all the happenings of the world, but a few are. And in these galaxy those people are the big three. However, keep in mind, not all the events of the EU took place on a galatic scale. AoC, CoPL, HST, YJK, CS etc didn't really. But I do understand; the fans are a diverse group who all want different things. But you can be happy that the point of the entire NJO is in the end, to pass on the torch to the next generation. And yes, that has to happen. I might not want it to, but it eventually will. However right now, the big three are all young enough to still be in the center of the action.

 

i guess no one wants to comment on my post then.....

 

<<<What if Luke named his son Ben because Obi-Wan is reincarnated? (But also because he didnt want the burden the name Obi-Wan would put on the boy, too)

I mean the book is called "Rebirth" and the last part is called "Rebirth".>>>

Well, I really don't think that Kenobi has been reincarnated as Luke's son. That's too weird. The name Ben simply allows Luke to pay respects to his first teacher while allowing the name to look completely normal to people outside of the Skywalker family and some of Luke's close friends. The kid will probably still face some pressure to live up to the name from Luke but there won't be any from other people. On the other side everybody knows who the name Anakin refers to so I think the third Solo child has more pressure on him.

I took the title Rebirth (both of the book and of the last part) to refer to Mara's cleansing of the disease and in a way she was 'reborn' and is back to her full potential.

 

I'm sorry. But I agree with Bogga. The title probably refers to not only Ben but Mara's rebirth. And the name, like Anakin is for respect, though it still confuses me that Luke named him that after what he said in the beginning.

 

Child of Winds--

Well, it reads like an illogical copout to me. If he wanted it to be a mystery, he should have said something about Luke and Mara together discovering a new means of healing through their Forcebond or something like that.

Greg Keyes showed them doing just that. That bond between Luke, Mara, and their newborn distinguishes this cure from any previous attempt to cure Mara. I think showing the cure at work was sufficient. I don't think Keyes needed to tell readers the explanation behind this mystical event.

We have to come up with our own creative spins on just what happened.

And the problem with that is...

It just seemed as though Del Rey couldn't come up with a logical explanation for the cure so they figured they could justify anything by saying it was a 'mystery' if someone bothered to ask.

Child of Winds, the Force is supposed to be a mysterious energy field that surrounds all life. I don't think Yoda understood all the mysteries of the Force. Some events related to the Force remain unexplained. Anakin is the Chosen One who brings balance to the Force, but he falls to the dark side, wipes out the Jedi, and slays millions before he finally destroys the Sith. Why was such a dark path necessary to bring balance? Why is the will of the Force so mercurial?

I can't speak for Greg Keyes, of course, but he seems to leave the method of Mara's cure a mystery by choice. Perhaps her cure is even the will of the Force. Whatever the case, I suspect that the method of Mara's cure was Keyes' idea, and Del Rey/LFL simply approved it. Perhaps a future novelist will have reason to make use of the Skywalkers' solution and examine it in greater detail. Until then, it may simply remain a mystery.

The only thing Luke and Mara did in this book involved becoming parents. Isn't that what you just said in different words?

They also escape Borsk's cops, initiate a search for a new Jedi base, cure Mara's disease, and reach an understanding with Borsk regarding the future relationship between the Jedi and the New Republic government.

Have either of them helped in the war effort at all since ONSLAUGHT?

Sure. In Ruin and Balance Point. Luke also authorizes Karrde's mission in Conquest and sends Han and Leia off to help forge a Jedi "underground railroad "behind the scenes."

Right, and those two teenagers end up saving his life and really do much more than Corran as I mentioned in a previous post.

Corran also pilots them away from Eriadu, creates a cover for them when they pilot the YV ship to Yag'Dhul for the YV fleet and Nom Anor and his Givin allies, and prevents Tahiri from gettting into a shooting war with the Givin before Corran can explain their status. His prior connection to Yag'Dhul is also a crucial element in the acceptance of their story by the Givin.

Do you think the child isn't going to know that they're one and the same person? He's still going to have the pressure of being named after his father's first mentor.

He'll lack the connection in the public eye and the kinship connection that Anakin had to deal with. See the separate thread on Ben for a fuller discussion.

What new information was Luke given?

When Luke made his earlier comments, he hadn't had the experience described in Chapter 43. After that mystical experience, Luke evidently felt that Ben was the right name to give his kid, despite his earlier reservations.

I said: "sixteen-year old Anakin meeting baby Ben contains strong symbolism," and you asked:

WHY????

Ben Kenobi trained Anakin Skywalker, but they became estranged and turned into bitter foes. Now Anakin Solo holds his cousin Ben Skywalker in his arms. The wheel of time turns...

So why couldn't we have had Anakin's reaction AND Leia and Han's???

Keyes could have done that, but he chose not to do so. Just as Zahn chose not to show Luke's first reaction to Leia's newborn twins. Why don't you ask Greg Keyes?

Stronger than between s

 

Well I bought and read Rebirth after swearing that I would boycott it. Jedi Ben?s review is what got me to reconsider. I must say that I was pleasantly surprised at how much I enjoyed this book. Sure there are flaws and the book is way too short, but there was nothing in it that would turn me off completely. If fact, I?m now back to looking forward to upcoming books.

BTW, I?m one of the people who RA Salvatore?s comments were directed toward. The comments about it being a good time to boycott the NJO, and I told you so. He had been having a good-natured conversation with us in another thread. I did not take offense to those remarks and took them in the light-hearted way that I believe that they were intended.