Rebirth Reviewed! (spoilers-Major!) or NJO: Becoming What It Ought To Be

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Jedi Ben, Jul 26, 2001.

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  1. Anakin SkySolo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 1999
    star 4
    Booster--

    In reply to a reasonably long reply to my post <g>...

    What can I say? Sometimes I talk too much...

    AnakinSkySolo said: "Schisms in fandom are unfortunate, but inevitable"

    Therein lies the rub. I will not debate you in public because for the most part, your views and mine are essentially a difference of opinion, and i respect your as you appear to respect mine. I would be happy to PM and follow up.


    Maybe at a later point. After tonight, my participation in this debate goes on hiatus (like SpyBoy) until the middle of next week, as I take an Oregon holiday.

    But, the key ... ahh ... the schism. I strongly disagree that a schism is inevitable. I personally enjoyed TPM for what it was --- a fun movie. I have no problem integrating the pre- and post-1991 EU. What seems to be dividing fans is the NJO story arc.

    I enjoyed TPM myself, and I have no trouble integrating pre- and post-1991 EU continuity, or integrating the EU with the movies. My point was only that divides exist between fans on those two issues. The NJO may represent another schism, but I'm skeptical that the divide is as great as the two schisms I mentioned. That's not to understate its seriousness, only to put it in perspective.

    As for the Vong, I suppose I'll just have to disagree again. With every book, the Yuuzhan Vong are further fleshed out as a race with a multi-layered culture and history. Their biotech, religion, and lack of presence in the Force sharply distinguish them from the GFFA denizens and make them a major challenge for the Jedi and the NR. They have been partly based on some ancient human cultures, particularly the Aztecs, and I find them as believable as I find any GFFA aliens.


    Moreover, any "franchise" that ignores a schism such as the one caused by the NJO does so at its own peril. If SW is to continue to be the wonderful world it has been, it MUST heal the rift.

    I am skeptical that DR and LFL are "ignoring" the rift. As far as I can tell, they are still listening to fans who dislike the NJO and even asking them what they'd like to see after the NJO. What I think is unrealisitic is to expect DR and LFL to fundamentally change the story arc as a way of meeting those demands--any more than George Lucas would respond to critics of TPM by fundamentally changing the story arc of the prequels.

    A case in point: I was an original Trekkie from 1966. I had all the books and comics and I enjoyed ST:TNG and DS9. But Voyager turned me off as it milked things a little too much. I ceased buying the books and I rarely watched Voyager.

    Well, I've watched Trek pretty consistently since I was a kid, though I've only bought a few books and comics. I wasn't thrilled with Voyager all that much myself, but I've got to say that I'm looking forward to Enterprise.

    If SW does the same, it loses a significant component of its fan base, and any time you have erosion like that, it causes irreperable damage to the fabric of the world. You imply others will take my place if I leave. Maybe so, but they lose me ... and THAT is irreversible.

    Voyager was so-so as a Star Trek series, but the next series, at this vantage point anyway, looks sharp (and probably appropriately cheesy). Maybe I'm jumping the gun, but if this series turns out as strongly as I expect, Trek may win back fans that were lost because of Voyager.

    Whether your decision to leave Trek is irreversible, regardless of the quality of Enterprise, I don't know. But certainly I'll be giving Enterprise a shot.

    As for Star Wars: Franchises always change with time, and a story arc that you don't like now may be followed up with something that you do like. I am skeptical that LFL is just "ignoring" fans or their concerns; indeed, the NJO itself is, at least in part, a direct response to fan concerns about the lack of continuity between chronologically-sequential books, and the lack of dramatic tension because of the "bubble of security" surrounding the major characters
  2. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    I decided to resurrect this thread as I wanted to add something about the NJO characters.

    Booster wrote:

    Puullleeeezzze ... calling the NJO a series that is high on character development is stretching things more than just a little. We have had nearly 17 years of Solo kids, yet they remain for the most part, characters that resemble a deus ex machina type of character. Only Jacen with his very realistic teenage angst (although he is a snotty brat in other ways) can be said to have shown some growth. Anakin is a marvel! He is the one that activates Centerpoint station; he is the one with the magical way with droids and other machines; Anakin is the one who discovers how to "see" the Vong in the Force; Anakin is ... well, it is a bit much.

    I agree, Booster. With the exception of Jacen, the kids (including Tahiri) are portrayed as rather cardboard superheroes. They have been over-done. They've been portrayed as way too powerful and too talented, especially Anakin. Heroes who have no flaws and are characterized as omnipotent are boring, unrealistic, and irritating. This is what has happened to the teengers in this series, in my opinion.

    In direct contrast, the adults have been 'dumbed down' in the NJO. Someone said that the characters evolve in a "steady, self-consitent way". I disagree. Not only do I not see growth, but I see tremendous regression in the main adult characters.

    Leia was once a respected chief of state; an accomplished diplomat; a Jedi knight. Now she's reduced to playing mother hen to refugees and to bantering with Han on the Millennium Falcon, and she doesn't consider herself a Jedi anymore.

    Han was turned into a drunk who took out his anger about Chewie's death on his friends and family and went off to do the kinds of things he did in his youth before he became a responsible leader. Poor Mara was given a disease right at the beginning in the NJO, which was sometimes used as an excuse to keep her out of much of the action.

    Kyp, who was given such a wonderful characterization and who was so engaging and showed so much growth in Simple Tricks in the TALES OF THE NEW REPUBLIC, has reverted to the impulsiveness and penchant for vengeance of his teen years. You would have thought he would have learned from his terrible mistake at Carrida. But no. Although he owes Luke Skywalker big time for the incredible second chance he was given after that debacle, Kyp instead ridicules and derides Luke and is largely responsible for the rift in the Jedi Order.

    And, Luke Skywalker...Don't even get me started about how badly this character has been butchered and mishandled, and how much he has regressed in the NJO! He's indecisive, weak, and practically useless. He has morphed into a pacifist who refuses to take any action against the dangerous, murderous invaders, even after countless beings have been killed and enslaved, and planet after planet has been destroyed or changed beyond recognition. He has given the Jedi no leadership and no direction. What happened to the courageous, resourceful, compassionate, responsible, talented, proactive Luke, the leader and warrior that we knew in the films, the Bantam books, and even in VECTOR PRIME??? I really miss him!

    I certainly don't see growth or even stagnation in these adult characters. I see real regression.
  3. pixy_girl53 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2001
    star 2
    I am so, so, so, so, so, so, so happy that I found this thread. I have wanted to know all these things for the longest time. And you know what? I think someone should humar me and write the A/t kissing sence, you know, simply because I have been predicting this thing for the longest time and I want to see how Keyes carries it out. PLEASE?!
  4. GirlJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2000
    star 3
    Does anyone else find it funny that Anakin's lightsaber is now somewhat talking to him? I mean, it's a neat development, we see how the changes that happen to people as a result of the invasion. the lambent has some connection to the Vong... maybe a secret about why they dont' show up in the Force? It sort of reminds me of how Mel Gibson's character in Lethal Weapon would talk to his gun. though Anakin is not as psycho.
  5. GirlJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2000
    star 3
    Darth Tuna, I agree with you about the childbirth pains. I like Keyes' writing and enjoyed Rebirth overall, but some of the "estrogen stuff" didn't really work for me. Of course, he's a guy so really he can't help it, he's tainted by testosterone, estrogen-deprived. There were lines or things Mara said that I couldn't wrap my ears or imagination around.
  6. JediLordHomer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2000
    star 1
    GirlJedi & Darth Tuna

    Being a guy i cant help but be testosterone tainted and estrogen deprived. But i do know that women have a higher threshold of pain than men. So perhaps Anakin just was affected more than Mara?

    (just looking for excuses 'cause i loved the entire book ;))
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