PT Rebuttal: RLM's Attack of the Clones Review

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Luukeskywalker, Feb 29, 2012.

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  1. MrFantastic74 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2010
    star 4
    I think you may be correct as far as most escapist blockbusters go. But Star Wars is different. Fans have held the Star Wars name to a much higher standard, and unfortunately for Lucas et al, it was extremely difficult from the outset to meet all the lofty expectations.

    Star Wars is a huge cultural phenomenon that influenced the lives of millions, especially those who were young adults or children at the time the original movies were released. To those fans, there were ordinary "movies", and then there were the "Star Wars movies". Star Wars is its own institution, a class all its own. When the prequels were released, SW fans did not just want another blockbuster that, as you say, they can say "that was awesome" and recommend/show to their friends before moving on to the next thing. They wanted something that they would hold in as high esteem as the originals, and feel a great sense of satisfaction in watching time and time again for the next twenty-five years. You see, Star Wars fans do not want to just move on to other things. Unfortunately, however, the unsatisfied masses are stuck with films that fell horribly short of their expectations. That is why people like Stoklasa and Simon Pegg speak out as vocally as they do.

    Of course the originals had their own issues, but these have been mostly overlooked, I suppose because the institution is such hallowed ground amongst the pre-existing fan base. But when the new movies came out, that same fan base demanded improvements to the story. They wanted a terrific story that added to the originals and gave them more meaning. They wanted heart-pounding yet realistic action. They wanted emotional ups and downs. They wanted the negatives of the originals to be swept away by an improved set of films. The attitude was and still is: "If you can not improve upon a story that was told a generation ago, then don't mess with it".

    It was certainly an uphill battle for Lucas and Co., on a slippery slope to boot. I understand the difficulties he faced, and I appreciate his efforts. However, I do feel that he should have consulted more directly with other script writers, directors and consultants who understood the expectations of the fan base (I'm not talking about expectations for the story/ plot; I mean expectations for what a Star Wars movie should feel like).
  2. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    From my POV, the expectations, by and large, weren't and aren't lofty, but rather base. A lot of fans appeared to desire more OT-esque films, however they wish to dress their hankerings up. But the OT is the OT; and the PT is the PT.

    Clearly, few, if any, were prepared for a wayward youth that turns to the Dark Side out of confusion and grief. Or for cloned soldiers that marched to the rhythmic thwacking of a lightsaber under the aegis of the Republic. Or institutional greed and corruption. Dogma, close-mindedness. Midi-chlorians. Jar Jar.

    Least of all, it seems, did they want or predict a profusion of digital: in the cinematography, effects; even the editing. And they did not want or prepare themselves for the artifacts of digital, either: clinical detachment, remote weirdness, things being "out of place".

    No, they wanted more of the same, biased, of course, toward the tonality of TESB; and no doubt executed along similar lines, with Lucas producing, and someone else directing. Well, hard cheese.

    And that is where the rot sets in. Some Star Wars fans have a terrible inability to let go. But we shouldn't keep talking about fans in that divisive way. However, it is peculiar. This is me agreeing with you here, BTW. :p

    Luckily, I got a set of films that deepened my appreciation for this mythology, this world, ten-fold. Today, I am still reeling from all the implications in this newer, less-conditioned, more-spiky art.

    Maybe they wanted that; but maybe they wanted a story that galvanized them in their love of the originals; made them feel safe and secure for loving it as much as they do. When the opposite -- to these people -- happened, they were horrified, and they have spent the last thirteen years purging those elusive demons. But any time, they could just let go, and find something more worthy of their tastes. Oh, boy. Much too much negativity here. What are ya doin', Mr. F? What are ya doin'? [face_worried]

  3. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 3
    That's cool, I don't know where I would have gone with it anyway.


    Yes, at least we still get a sense of the divide between the "Rebels" and Palpatine through the brief conversation where Padme states "Have you ever wondered if we might be on the wrong side?".
    Also, there's the fact that, with the final cut of the movie, Padme and Anakin keeping secrets from each other kind of in turn keeps it from the audience. We don't see Anakin killing the younglings, as with Padme, and we don't see the "Seeds of Rebellion" scenes, which are also kept from Anakin.
    Dooku in ROTS was a little disappointing, but there is still a readable character arc filled mostly by Episode 2. I like the quick shift we see from the menacing symbol of Anakin's fears to the pathetic character he becomes right at the end. I thought that was interesting.

    I feel that way about most of the films in the saga. You can say it about Empire Strikes Back, the ending is easily one of the most powerful parts of the saga to me, and I don't particularly have to continue on to ROTJ. Revenge of the Sith is a perfect complement to ESB however, in fact it single-handedly easily adds more to each movie than any of the six.
    For example, The Phantom Menace, one of my fave's since the release of "Revenge", beautifully contrasts it, it's the "age of innocence" set supersticiously 13 years prior to Ep3. To me, ROTS makes it a whole new movie, and in turn, much of Ep3 plays off and is based on The Phantom Menace (perhaps this is an obvious statement). It's very hard to explain, but I have thought about this a lot since '05, the relationship these two films have (IMO) is quite unique. I would not appreciate ROTS, and the cohesive six part saga, nearly as much without the mythos these two movies symbiotically create.

  4. MrFantastic74 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2010
    star 4
    I don't know. Maybe it's because I haven't had my coffee yet this morning. :)
  5. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    Ideas come and go. Sure there were a few things I was gonna add.

    Well, sometimes, it's best to sit on something for a while; usually, I have more to say if something simmers for a bit.

    Similarly, because Obi-Wan's first visit to Padme is cut, we're more aligned with Anakin's subjective viewpoint. Padme seems a little too flippant to be entirely truthful; though, it's pretty obvious, she is. I'd still like to have that earlier scene, however (also makes a nice pair with Obi-Wan returning to see Padme under more dire circumstances later). Dooku is dispatched tremendously quickly, but I've always liked that. And that's a neat little reading of the Dooku-Anakin linking. Speaking of "pathetic", here, there's also the inverse. Through Grievous, I think Lucas invests some sympathy in Anakin; indeed, in all odd lifeforms who endure through trying odds. There are some points in that opening act where Grievous is struggling to breathe or get through his coughing. He is feeble, but at the same time, he is also made of strong stuff, so to speak.

  6. Nordom Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2004
    star 4
    In order to make my viewpoint clearer, I get annoyed when characters suddenly get very stupid in order to move the plot along.

    Some ex. In the movie Angels and Demons, Tom Hanks and one other guy gets trapped in a sealed vault and they are running out of Oxygen. They try various things to crack the plastic walls, smashing it with a cart on wheels, tipping a bookcase against it but nothing works. Finally they are moments from death when the Tom Hanks character notices that the other guy has a gun. He uses it and the wall finally breaks. This to me is dumb, why would the character that had a gun forget that he had one and not use it? They did have several minutes of air so it was not a split second choice. Of course the scene is written so that the tension builds but since that tension depends on two guys being rather dumb it annoyed me. I overall liked the film but this bit was less good.
    Or in an old X-files episode where they have to have some light otherwise they get killed. They have only one lamp and much of the tension is in if that lamp would fail and kill them all. The problem is that they have matches and lighters and have lots of wood around and yet no one comes upon the idea to make a fire.
    Again it is because if they did that then the tension would go away so instead the characters have to be dumb.

    In AotC there were several instances were the characters said and did things that did not feel natural or as a logical consequence of recent events. Instead I got the sense that the characters did this in order for the plot to work.
    Some ex, Padme accusing Dooku of trying to kill her when, based on what she knows at the time, he is the last person who would want her dead. Jango and Zam using a rather odd weapon for no apparent reason and Padmes security making some odd choices, like no cameras at the window. Then Zam not using a very usefull ability and instead attacking when other options existed. Jango using a very exotic dart that begs the question, does he want the Jedi to track him or not? It would seem not but then why this very specific dart?

    To sum up, the plot of AotC felt somewhat contrived to me, it felt like the characters were just playing out a prewritten script and it did not feel natural. This and so needs to happen and so it does wheter it amkes sense or not. I do not hate the movie nor do I think it is bad but these things made it less good to me.

    Regards
    Nordom
  7. Thegoat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
    star 1
    Obi-wan was not in on the "Padme as bait" plan. Clearly, he was more interested in finding the attacker than he earlier stated (jumping out of a window and all), but he wasn't prepared for the situation in which he found himself. I imagine he saw his position as one of intimidation more than investigation and did not expect an attack with two Jedi present.

    As for Zam, maybe her actions were not the optimal choice. Maybe she was arrogant or naive or just plain stupid. She had likely never engaged a Jedi before (evidenced by the fact that she was alive) and thought she could handle them. Maybe it would have been smarter to leave out the back or blend in or whatever you like, but she chose to attack. Why is this so unacceptable? Zam is not perfect, nor is she omnipotent. Maybe she had a different perception of her situation. You state that she made a poor choice, and I agree with you. She got herself killed, after all. I don't agree that it equates to some kind of a plot hole or sloppy writing. It's just what happened. I also don't think that any of the film's already stretched screen-time needs to be spent on the hunt for Zam Wessel.
  8. MrFantastic74 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2010
    star 4
    Well done. =D=
    I would have preferred having the Kenobi part, though. I've been a Kenobi fan since '77.
  9. son_of_skywalker03 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2003
    star 4
    Then you must have serious issues with A New Hope.
  10. Thegoat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
    star 1
    Fair enough. I can see that point of view. If that's the concern, I might argue for the complete exclusion of Zam (who was pretty inexperienced and liable to screw up). Have Jango make the attempt, flee the Jedi, narrowly escape, but leave something traceable (perhaps deliberately), and the plot would flow in exactly the same manner.
  11. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 3
    Yeah, and Anakin's jealousy would seem less out of nowhere in that scenario.

    Yeah, I think I agree. His death is a significant piece of the puzzle. It was one of my favourite scenes in '05, it still is. The obvious inversion of Return of the Jedi, and contrast to Maul's death in TPM are also neat.

    Your posts on AOTC have often given me further appreciation for the film. And I agree on the use of colour, I'm not eloquent enough to describe why. You also help me see the dream-like quality of the film, and it is a mysterious chapter as you say.

  12. JimRaynor55 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2005
    star 3
    Let's review your options, not that they prove a point anyway. Your line of thought is based on Obi-Wan making a sub-optimal decision, even though no one said he was perfect. In fact, the movie pretty much hammered home the fact that he was imperfect; a know-it-all who made his own share of mistakes but talked down to Anakin anyway. That's Obi-Wan's characterization in the movie. Him jumping after the droid reinforced that. From an entertainment standpoint, it was an excuse for a cool shot of him crashing through a window, and the subsequent chase scene.

    In ANH, Han maks a fool of himself by pointlessly chasing after a bunch of Stormtroopers, until an entire room of Stormtroopers turn the tables on him. It characterized him as reckless and macho, and was done for the sake of goofy comedy. Man, Han's so stupid! What kind of movie is this? Characters are NEVER allowed to make the wrong decision!

    Jedi apparently need to stop and concentrate, often focusing with hand motions, in order to apply telekinesis to small objects. This is not a power that they use the vast majority of the time. It seems far easier to just let the Force guide the movement of their own bodies.

    Man, that speeder bike scene on Endor was so stupid! Why didn't Luke just grip those Scout Troopers with the Force?

    Yeah, take time reaching into his pocket for a tracking device that he wasn't prepared to use, and might not have even been carrying at the time since he expected to stay inside the nice posh apartment building (he wasn't even aware of Padme and Anakin's plan to lure in the assassin). Also, this assumes that a tracking device made for starships would easily be able to latch onto a small round droid.

    So instead of instinctively relying on the Force (as Jedi are trained to do) and grabbing the droid in the second or so before it flew away from the window, the Jedi are supposed to stop, lose sight of it, and run backward to the hangar in order to get to their speeder. This, by the way, is so much more dynamic than a character acting within the moment and staying with the enemy.

    Any given person on the street CAN have a gun and a will to kill you. Don't walk down the street.

    We know that the vast majority of droids in the SW universe aren't rigged to blow up, something that adds weight, gets in the way of actual mission performing equipment, and makes the droids unsafe to be around. We know that Obi-Wan has the Force to guide his actions, and that Jedi make snap decisions all the time with the general belief that they aren't going to kill themselves.

    Yes, because seeing the probe droid blow up isn't enough to assume that it had a self-destruct mechanism by itself. Han thinks that because it's common!

    Please stop pretending that you're the arbiter on "how these debates work," while dictating rules that make no sense. You are literally saying that Obi-Wan should've assumed something that most droids do not have, and which his psychic Force powers did not tell him to avoid, because "ONE" droid in another movie, set in another time, self-destruct
  13. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Did Willie Nelson get busted again?
  14. Luukeskywalker Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 1999
    star 4
    Ok, great discussion. On to the next part:

    "So this assassination attempt leads us to the completely and utterly implosible and stupid plot of the movie, that Anakin must take Padme to her homeworld in order to protect her. Seriously, its so dumb its like some kind of romance novel or something, or like a late night Cinemax sex movie. For one Obi-Wan knows that Anakin is kind of crazy in love with her, so you would think that he would suggest that sent Padme away with the guy who looks like squid. You know, that guy. And they don't call him Kit Fisto cause he is into chicks if you know what I mean. So then the jedi council for no logical reason at all other than to maintain the plot they think Anakin is ready that he should go with Padme. Two young star crossed lovers should go on this romantic getaway, when romance and love is forbidden and leads to the darkside. Oh wait, I guess Palpatine was the guy who initially suggested the idea so he might have been like using a trick on them or something. You know his grand plan was to cloud of their judgement and to trick them into letting Anakin go with her because he knew he was gonna fall in love, get Padme pregnant, then have premanitions of future pregnancy complications resulting in her death so Palpatine could tell Anakin he could use the dark side to save her so that Anakin could become Darth Vader and help Palpatine rule the Empire. You'd think if this guy could see that far into the future he would just pick the lottery numbers. Maybe that's how he paid for the clones. Wait, wait if that were the case....ah F**** it. So this movie operates under the logic that asassinations only take place at night because Padme is packing her things right next to a bunch of open windows in broad f******* daylight. And there is even robots floating outside the window and Anakin doesn't even seem to notice this. And the last assassination attempt was by a robot at the window. F****** Helen Keller could assasinate her at this point. Eventually they go back to Naboo and we kind of forget about the silly assassination thing, and apparently they do too because they make absoltely no effort to conceal themselves in anyway. Might as well paint a target on her face. You know if she is so safe on Naboo, then why didn't Anakin just drop her off and come back. I think it's pretty niave to assume whoever this assassin is, that they couldn't figure out that they went back to Naboo after he sees that Jar Jar Binks has replaced Amidala in the senate. And then he could just find them and take his time and shoot her when they are say sitting in an open field...but I digress. This is really about love, right? And if love is forbidden, then we are supposed to instantly care about it, right? Well, no. Not at all. Just because you throw obsticles in the way of a romance, doesn't mean that we will care about it. But instead we have to endure this completely implossible premise. It don't make no sense! (goes onto say how to Lucas, love is like something from Romeo and Juliet and shows clip from that movie. He starts intercutting clips of Romeo and Julier with clips of Anakin and Padme romance scenes from AOTC, showing how they both have cliche' lines of love and both throw convenient reasons why the love is forbidden. He also accuses the actors of skirming in interviews while trying to explain the romance plot while showing clips of Hayden, Natali, and even Sam Jackson visibly "squirming" in video interviews while talking about the romance). See the thing is that the characters have no reason at all to love each other than the fact that they are simply physically attracted to each other. So instead of making a story of them just f****** like wild rabits, they imply some deeper emotional connection that has never been established because they don't know each other. It's what they call a contradiction. So a bunch of nerds will argue that its the will of the force that they be together. That's just an excuse for sloppy s****y writing. This is also yet another example of how these characters are always written
  15. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Fantastic job as always, Luuke!

    Here's my response:

    First of all, it seems pretty obvious to me, especially with the whole trilogy in mind, that Obi-Wan, though aware of Anakin's emotions, didn't want to put a strain on their friendship by ratting him out. He wanted to believe that Anakin had it under control.
    Second, Mace says "If the prophecy is true, your apprentice is the only one who can bring the Force back into balance", heavily implying that the Council desperately wants Anakin to be ready. They need him to be ready, in case the prophecy is true and the Force needs to be brought into balance soon.
    This is one of the Council?s great mistakes in this trilogy. They push Anakin too hard.
    On the other hand, they might also see that Anakin needs encouragement.
    Anakin is right there, keeping track of things with help from the Force. Besides, assassination attempts are more likely to happen at night, because it?s easier for an assassin to hide in the dark.
    Hello, refugee outfits?
    Padmé does have a tendency to not be too concerned with her own safety. It?s one of her character traits. Anakin isn?t about to just leave her alone, though, for apparent reasons.
    Regarding Jar Jar: Padmé had just been subject to two assassination attempts within a day. It?s likely that the official word is that she?s still on Coruscant, but staying away from the public until the matter is resolved.
    And Anakin is still protecting her, even when they are sitting in an open field ? which, BTW, is situated in a very isolated part of Naboo that apparently few know about.
    They are young fools. Is that so hard to accept?
    Anakin has been thinking about her every day since they parted ? probably because he fell in love with her back then and holds on to that love because she?s the only one who?s made him feel that way.
    Padmé has been dying a little bit each day since he came back into her life ? probably because seeing him again brings her back to how she felt the last time they spent time together. Apparently, that was a good feeling. With him, she can allow herself to be? herself. Apart from her family on Naboo, he?s probably quite unique in that aspect.
    That?s why they love eachother. If you?
  16. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    AGH! Two discussions now ongoing! Will wrap this one up and then get to the next part of the RLM review!

    That's right. However, it doesn't come out of nowhere in the film, but rather, arises from a waking vision he has right there and then. Which, by the way, is a detail I've always liked, as it suggests his glimpses of the future are becoming more invasive: "Darth VADER!"

    It's also a concluding part to the duel in the Geonosian hangar, too. Y'know, it's like that whole engagement is missing a piece or two -- syncopated violence -- and it reaches a kind of climax here. Of course, the red-blue thing comes back into this part; before, it was Anakin and Dooku clashing in the dark, and here, it's Anakin swiping Dooku's saber and crossing it with his own.

    Thank you. AOTC has an almost kaleidoscopic use of colour: a bright range of dazzling hues. I think you can almost hear this in the music! Consider the "descent" motif used for Kamino; which also brilliantly overlaps with Anakin and Padme at a colourful water retreat (uh oh!). It's like a series of adjacent notes slowly birthing the next set: a concertina effect. BTW, this section of the film has one of my favourite visual effects. When the film cuts back to Obi-Wan, in the wide establishing shot of the innards of the facility -- which seems very Willa Wonka-esque, to me (those gloopy pipes) -- a small rainbow is momentarily produced as a basic lens flare "dies" and gives birth to a glorious cross section of colour. Ironic when you consider the facility itself; and what it is being used to bring into being. This is a film bewilderingly rich in detail.

  17. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    Doesn't this say more about Mike Stoklasa's state of mind; or at least Mr. Plinkett's? Feels, to me, like he just had to work in a sex gag as a distraction tactic; another little jangling of the baby mobile to keep the dumb masses interested.

    Another sex gag. Classy! As Lars has just said, Obi-Wan is giving his apprentice some latitude. Though, it must be said, not much. He airs concern to Mace and Yoda, but intriguingly, he stops short of voicing doubts about the pairing itself. It's almost like Obi-Wan is afraid to disclose the whole truth. I mean, this couldn't possibly be a theme in this movie, or the PT as a whole, could it?

    It could also be construed as a test of Anakin's abilities. All Jedi are meant to face trials on their path to enlightenment. Their appraisal of Anakin seems to have also gone up a tad since TPM. And Yoda is aware -- apparently, without too much deep concern -- of arrogance and taints in his beloved Jedi Order. So, I don't see why there would be this resistance to giving Anakin, the prospective Chosen One, this assignment, personally.

    Palpatine has tremendous foresight, but he clearly doesn't see everything. Also, his focus seems governed on large details pertaining to moral blindness and the ineptitudes of others, so fatuously implying he could use his abilities to get rich from "lottery numbers" sows a bad fiction. Also, while I'm pretty sure Palpatine encouraged the Jedi to stick Obi-Wan and Anakin with Padme for dark purposes, he may not have known quite how it was going to play out; he just knew it would probably give him things he could later use. And what, exactly, is the problem with characters having clairvoyance? In LOTR, Gandalf tells Frodo not to be too eager to condemn Gollum, as "even the very wise cannot see all ends". The implication there, and elsewhere, such as when Elrond and Galadriel are telepathically communicating in the next movie, is that the wise, while not omniscient, can see an awfully long way into the future, and are more right than wrong. There's also The Oracle in "The Matrix"; all-seeing almost to the point of madness. And these are just a few modern examples. Seers and prophets are nothing new to mythology; in fact, they're the norm. But when Lucas dares to include the same mythological conceit in Star Wars and use it for the bad guy? HACK!

  18. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 3
    LOL. I think I was kind of reaching with a lot of that thread. It's kind of trippy to see it again though.

    I will try and write a response to the rest of your post when I get around to it sometime tonight.
    Peace.
  19. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 3
    I'm not sure what you are saying here, could you explain? What waking vision are you referring to?
    Anyway, as others have pointed out, it's an interesting detail that the visions adapt and change, in line with Yoda's ESB comment "Always in motion is the future". Quite surreal that as Anakin embarks on his quest to save Padme, his current and future actions shape different possible outcomes. And then there is the paradox; if Anakin hadn't experienced the initial dream, would Padme have still died as a result of him trying to stop it?
    Something trivial I noticed while looking at the script yesterday, the setting labeled for the first vision is POLIS MASSA-MEDICAL CENTER-DREAM. That's kind of interesting that the script basically gives this away far before we see this setting.

    True. There is also the point that Anakin uses blue and green when he first faces Dooku, but blue and red when he kills Dooku in cold blood. Like I said before, I think there is intended contrast in Dooku in AOTC compared to his weaker position at his end in ROTS.

    I like that Kamino music. Ominous.
    Very original thoughts on the visual effect. I don't know what I could add.

    lol

    I hadn't thought of that.


  20. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    Film goers demand better than that in today's cinema? I guess that would explain the success of Michael Bay, Twilight, Paul Blart: Mall Cop and the Fast and Furious franchise. [face_laugh] If anything, moviegoer's tastes have been so eroded by a constant diet of Hollywood crap in recent years that when the rare "smart" blockbuster like Inception comes along it gets heralded as the second coming just because of how lowbrow popcorn movies have become.
    The prequels actually compare very favourably to today's blockbusters. There's more plot, character development, coherent action and emotion in ten minutes of AOTC than the whole Transformers trilogy put together. I agree with you that ANH would not be received favourably if it was released for the first time today (ignoring the fact that Hollywood would be completely different without Star Wars). But that's not a comment on the movie's flaws but the low attention spans of today's audiences. Even when the SE came out I heard people complain that the first 20 minutes of the movie had too much of the robots just walking around the desert!
    While I have high hopes for this year's blockbusters (Hunger Games, Avengers, Prometheus and the Hobbit all look like they should be great movies) we will never again see major studio movies that have as big an impact on audiences as Lucas and Spielberg's movies did in the late seventies and early eighties. Even a movie like Avatar (which everybody saw) has had zero influence on popular culture except creating an unwelcome glut of 3D movies.
  21. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 3
    Agreed. The prequels just had the unfortunate circumstance of coming after the OT, by the standard of a lot of other movies they are actually quite deep.

    That's actually one of my favourite parts of the movie. The music and mysterious mood were always good, and it works a little more after the prequels as well, the pacing slowing down (on a 1-6 viewing) characterising the Empire and what has changed.
  22. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    Fair enough. I just want to add, however, that I've been reading "The Final Chapter" again: an addendum (as the title suggests: the final chapter) to J.W. Rinzler's "The Making of Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith" (which I also have). This final part goes over the editing and scoring process. And it's amazing how exacting the editing process really is, with Lucas dictating individual frames be cut and new ones added to many scenes. Quite literally, the film is gone over with a fine tooth comb, and every frame counts. You could say that all movies are edited like this, but when you consider all the layers involved in the prequel frames -- described in this PDF document by Lucas as "sedimentary -- geological" (Rinzler states in the same paragraph that there are "as many as twenty-one layers of digital information for every shot") -- it's pretty astonishing. Also, Lucas has previously described Star Wars, near the time of Sith's completion (pub. date: Jan 11th 2005, Vanity Fair), as "a much more intricately made clock than most people would imagine". So, there's something to be said for overlapping the films, and running them concurrently, I think.

    Anakin seems to have something that might be fairly described as a waking vision when he glimpses Obi-Wan tending to Padme, right before he comes to and launches into his accusation to Padme: "Obi-Wan's been here, hasn't he?" Maybe he was in a bit of a stupour, or day-dreaming, to use a relevant phrase, but that vision, to me, feels much more "on the surface" than the earlier one he had of Padme struggling, while actually asleep. I think the paradox can be resolved, in part, by regarding these visions as subjective samplings of possible futures, occurring, perhaps, in parallel universes. It is quite possible that we could even modify our own bodies, and perhaps imbue them with something like a futuristic cellular society -- our own version of midi-chlorians -- that would subsequently allow us to tap into the universe in a deeper way, seeing the past, the present, and the future in a more intuitive way, much as many of the SW characters do. The trouble, of course, arises with human emotions, and the limitations of the human brain, as Anakin's story neatly encapsulates.

  23. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Luuke: What's your plan during the move? Will you continue this on the temporary board or wait until we have access to this thread again?





    Luuke has a plan - I hope
    /LM
  24. Luukeskywalker Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 1999
    star 4
    I suppose we could take a break during the transition to the other board. I would really like to keep all of this in one thread so we have a single point of reference. That being said, when is the move taking place? And how long will we be without old threads while the transition takes place?

    *EDIT* Nevermind, I see that the move is taking place tomorrow. My question still stands as to how long we will be without old threads though.
  25. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Just read a bit of RLM's so-called "review" of the love story, and I want that five minutes of my life back.

    I get that some people dislike the love story because they personally did not care about the characters, although I object to RLM's arrogant and obnoxious use of the plural pronoun "we". Who the hell does he think he is, to speak for anyone other than himself?

    As far as thinking the story would be better if Anakin and Padme had "****ed like rabbits" instead, I'm wondering where he ever got the idea that Lucas planned to direct pornography during the prequels.

    Reminds me a bit of the argument that Anakin should have never loved Luke and Leia's mother, and the twins should have been conceived by rape. I would not be a Star Wars fan if Lucas had gone that route. We'd be "redeeming" Vader back to Anakin Skywalker the Rapist? Seriously?
Moderators: Bazinga'd
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