Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Luukeskywalker, Feb 29, 2012.
Qui-Gon's line about being a jedi is a hard life says more than we think, don't it?
I couldn't even get through RLM's TPM review, much less any of the others. RLM has slammed a lot of movies I like, notably the TNG Star Trek movies.
Yeehaw! Good to see all of yous again. As always, excellent work, Luuke!
Here we go:
Who says she doesn't? She's busy with work though and doesn't want to be responsible for Anakin's expulsion from the Jedi Order - much less be part of a scandal that might destroy everything that she's spent the past ten years building.
I can see the charm in that, but I happen to like the sharp irony in the fact that Anakin, the Jedi, is the one doing the tempting and Padmé, who's free from the restrictions of the Jedi, resists him.
She's conflicted and behaves foolishly. He brings out the carefree youth in her and she gives in, feeling encouraged by the environment that also happens to remind her of her days as a carefree child when they used to swim out to the island, lie in the sand and guess the names of the birds singing.
It's not what she should be doing, but she is doing it and it also happens to confuse Anakin somewhat. He obviously senses that there's something there.
I feel it. There are lots of scenes that clearly show/hint at how they feel about eachother. A few examples off the top of my head: Padmé packing her bags, the kiss on Naboo, the picnic and the dinner.
It's not necessarily the film's fault that you can't see it.
Senators - they behave foolishly
Great, on the money post that should be quoted every time Anakin is described as creepy or a stalker for the way he looks at Padme in Episode II. Yes, a 19/20 year old lustfully glancing at an attractive women is less creepy and more understandable than some of the "moves" a 30 something Han pulls on a 20 something Leia.
I liked both romances but I agree completely with this, as well as the earlier comment that Han gets a pass for behavior that Anakin would be lit on fire over (pun intended). If Han looked at Leia the way Anakin looked at Padme in AOTC, the reaction would be entirely different, because he's Han, he's smooth and he's older than Leia, and since it's still 1950, the man MUST be older.
I've posted these before on some other thread, but has the "it's all CGI" argument been brought out already? If not:
The awesome power of miniatures!
Oh man, those are awesome.
While i agree on the quote all of star wars is bad acting, I say we shouldn't focus on the negative, go ahead, put that back on your YouTube, for the better of the order! But what we really need is something exactly like this thread, in video format. But we don't need a fan ranting, it needs to be done PROFESSIONALLY. With both humor (not as offensive though) and facts. And we need to get them out there! I fear some of the fans from my generation, (the next generation, i'm 15 so i think i fit in that generation) are already falling into plinkett's trap.
Ok, on to the next part:
See when you say something right to a woman she smiles. It tickles her brain which in turn sends blood flowing down to her sex hole. But her smile could also be deceoptive, and could indicate one of 117 different things (goes on rambling a list of words like sarcasm, condecension, confusion, contemplation, facetiousness, etc). From the very brief time that Anakin and Padme are together, they decide to get married as well. And don't say it was the will of the force unless you don't want me to send you a pizza roll....So other than being handsome guy, lets analyze what Anakin did to win over Padme. 1) when Anakin first meets Padme, she is like "oh, hello", and then she drops and unintentional froudian falac reference (voice over of Padme saying "my goodness you've grown"), win... good looks. Then the very first thing that comes out of Anakin's mouth is a very awkward and inappropriately placed compliment ("so have you, grown more beautiful I mean"). Innappropriate Compliment. She smiles lovingly and dismisses it as nerves. Women don't mind an initial nervousness from a guy. Its complimentary and cute to them. But it gets old real fast. Assertiveness needs to take over quickly, but too much assertiveness and arguing with your boss comes off as a pathetic and desperate attempt for attention. Innapropriate Assertiveness. Next, women like it when you ask them questions about things. They like to talk about themselves alot and don't really care what you have to say. For example in this next scene, Padme mentions how she has worked for a year on legislation to oppose the military creation act, or something. Even if you could care less about this ****, you just pretend like you do. You can say, "well that sounds interesting. Tell me about this piece of legislation." Then she will start running her mouth, and you can think about sex while she is talking. Occasionally you should nod, and always be prepared with some follow up questions. Instead Anakin misses this very obvious lead and starts talking about himself and his jedi stuff.She doesn't care. Then it gets worse. He starts b!tching and complaining about his job and his boss, almost to where it seems like he is going to start crying. Keep in mind that this is like only their second scene together. I can only imagine what she is thinking. (girls voice saying how much of an annoying whiner he is using several explitives). And then...creepy sex looks. And if a woman ever says, "you are making me be uncomfortable", it's usually not a good sign, unless she is into that sort of thing. So I guess then they go to Naboo. Hey man, go ask the council first, cause I am sure they will just agree to whatever. SO they are off on their romantic Italian vacation. It's a girl who is under threat of assassination and a guy whose training was prophicized to bring grave danger.And they are sending them off together...alone. Why? And again the two most logical clear minded guys aren't going along (Obi-Wan and Panaka picture shown from TPM and Obi-Wan and Typho picture shown from AOTC) and they just stand there and watch it happen. They even place bets on who is going to make the first move. SO when they are on the transport ship, Padme does a little feeler to see if Anakin and her can **** in the bathroom. Anakin responds with an earnest yet clumsy response about a loophole in the jedi doctrine about love. This kind of pleases her. So we will give him a point. Finally they arrive at the most romantic city in the universe. Anakin scores a few points early on carrying her luggage, listening to her prattle on about herself. For a few minutes it seems like he is learning, then he goes back to being a pr**.Shows them arguing in the castle......then for no reason they take a ride on a Venetian Gondola to a romantic location. But did you ever notice that this is like a space gondola. It has the same design that the naboo fighters have. Like everything else has this old word charm to it....but the gondola. I mean can you squeeze any more romantic cliches into this movie? Oh wait, you can. They stuck in the Naboofle Tower in the background (shows structure that looks like the Iffle Tower in a shot on Naboo)...and by the way, what in the hell is she wearing? I mean really, she is just asking for this guy to ummm, use the force. I mean she might as well show him where the pinball machine is.Then he stammers on trying to make some analogy about sand, which could be the dumbest line ever in movie history.....and then she kisses him. So their next date is at the waterfall, Anakin tries to discuss politics and admits he supports a facist dictatorship. Then he rides on a giant pig then they roll around. The ladies like it when you roll around with them in the grass. But only if they are awake and not drugged. Later that night in a romantic fireside setting, Padme is dressed in a sexy outfit and teases the guy even more. Then he starts crying. Then he starts begging for sex ("I will do anything that you ask") Then she tells him no because she is a senator? Let the guy get his rock off!!! Next Anakin murders women and children, brings a corpse home, and then goes on a psychotic megalomaniacal rant. (goes on to show portions of the garage confession scene buzzing every comment with "wierd, creepy comment" on the screen and some guy intercuting trying to make some comical point about inconsistencies with the Lars garage from Episode 4). And then even though Anakin's strikes far outweigh his successes, she still marries the guy for only knowing him for like 3 days. You know what? I take it back. I take back every bit of criticism I ever said about the guy. George Lucas, I present you with the " totally and completely understands women trophy", you've earned it my friend. You've earned it. (Cuts to Plinkett making the girl watch AOTC as part of her torture as teased in the last part, she comments saying its awful).
George Lucas, I present you with the " totally and completely understands women trophy", you've earned it my friend. You've earned it.
If my eyes rolled back any further in my head, I would need surgery. Although I do need to laugh at the sheer stupidity and the irony of such a statement coming from such a person. Stoklasa, God's gift to women.
I would not want to be within 300 feet of him. Even as a teenager, I knew to avoid males who made broad-based statements and stereotypes such as "women do X" and "women think X." What is this, 1850?
I've met males like him (notice I did not say "men," as that usually implies adulthood). Fortunately we were all in junior high at the time and they've all outgrown it. And if he's playing the macho sexist ***hole role for "humor," it's about as funny as norovirus.
The macho sexist a**hole?
Where in the hell did all of this come from? Where do people get off thinking that Padme's reaction to Anakin should be the same as theirs? What arrogance! And the way he is portrayed in the earlier post, is excessively negative. I'm sorry, but I'm not convinced. Not by a long shot.
It seemed as if Anakin and Padme's characters are judged on some superficial level in order to support their theories on how bad the PT is. I thought I've heard it all. I guess not.
Since we generally agree on the PT--and still do, based on your last couple of sentences--I'm confused by this post. You do know that I was talking about RLM, not Anakin, right? Do you really think that if I thought Anakin was a macho sexist ***hole, I would have this user name?
It seems that RLM wishes that Anakin were more of a macho sexist ***hole like himself.
This says nothing about AOTC and everything about Stoklasa. He's simply gotten it all wrong.
Anakin does come off as immature sometimes, but he and Padmé seem to communicate really well. They understand eachother (probably better than they know) and are comfortable in eachother's company. For some reason, they just fit.
They also have a brief but significant history together, which gives them a kind of connection that they don't share with anyone else. They bonded already in TPM and in AOTC, they deepen that bond.
BTW: When Padmé says "It makes me feel uncomfortable", she feels uncomfortable because he stirs up emotions in her - emotions that she as a politician shouldn't feel towards a Jedi. That's how I always interpreted that scene and it surprised me to learn that some fans interpreted it differently, to say the least.
Bonds - they are deepened
And here we go:
I'm not going to bother with this all that much because everything RLM is saying is basically garbage. He does realize, of course, that arousal is not necessarily linked to smiling? I know he's trying for comedy, but honestly, when you start whipping out stereotypes to justify your humor, it isn't all that funny.
What? No, seriously what the hell is this?
Not all women like the same things. Some women can't stand nervous men while others find assertive men obnoxious. Just like, you know, people. Some people like to date outgoing people while others prefer quieter ones. Some like patience while others find it boring or crave excitement. There are women who would have completely brushed Anakin off and others who would have found him endearing.
Wow. +1 for RLM being a jerk. Do people really find this humorous? Because that's the only reason I can think of for him to make this statement, and it's a poor reason at that.
Errr...RLM might have missed the point of that scene. Anakin is trying to persuade Padmé that she has to go into hiding. That sometimes we all have to do things we don't like. She then brings up that he's grown up and he starts talking about his Jedi training. Yeah, he whines (although it didn't look anywhere near that he was going to cry). But he also does something rather important in this scene -- he listens to her. When she tells him that Obi-Wan's just doing his job as a mentor, he sighs and admits that he knows that's true. And here's something that all people (not just women) like -- they like being listened to. Anakin was venting about Obi-Wan, and Padmé listened (because, unlike RLM, she does care) and then gives him advice which he concedes to. It lets Padmé know that despite what he said, he still cares about Obi-Wan, he's just frustrated and he cares about what she thinks.
And yet, Padmé (and I) obviously didn't find it creepy, considering that she was just fine with having Anakin as her bodyguard. Yes, the gaze was very intense and he shouldn't have kept looking at her that way if it made her uncomfortable, but if she's willing to let it go and he doesn't keep going, I don't see what is so problematic about it -- it's not like he grabs her or forces her to do anything. Plus, as Lars_Muul points out, Padmé is uncomfortable because she doesn't want to confront that Anakin has grown up, but when he looks at her like that, she' must accept it.
Anakin wasn't prophesied to "bring great danger." It was prophesied that he would bring balance to the Force. Did RLM even watch the films? They are sending them off together because Anakin is her bodyguard. This isn't a complicated set up.
Umm...Captain Typho can't go because he's part of Padmé's security detail and they don't want people to know she's left Coruscant. Hence traveling as refugees and Padmé telling Dormé that the threat will be on her, as Padmé's double. Likewise, Obi-Wan is going to investigate. This is Anakin's first assignment on his own, I don't necessarily think he's experienced enough to lead an investigation. Protecting one Senator, though, is within his capabilities. And although Obi-Wan is concerned, he has to accept the Council's decision since he is needed to go investigate the assassination attempts and Kamino.
He argues with her sure...and then accepts her decision. It's not like he publicly humiliates her or anything. He wanted to give his opinion about her security when pointedly asked by Sio Bibble, and pointed out that he's in charge of security (which is true). When she says that he would be wise to take advantage, he takes a deep breath and apologizes.
**** you, RLM. Seriously. I don't care if it is a joke -- it's in poor taste (and it isn't even funny). Jesus, this is the guy whose critique on romance we're supposed to listen to? Someone who says that if a woman dresses a certain way it means she's asking to be assaulted?
I've never really understood what's so terrible about the "sand" line. It tells us a lot about the characters and how they viewed their pasts -- Padmé had a happy childhood and remembers vacationing with family. Anakin didn't. He's probably never taken a vacation in his life. Heck both the "I loved the water" and the "I don't like sand" are often criticized, but they're just simple statements. And they reflect both characters' outlooks on their pasts.
Anakin never says he supports a fascist dictatorship (and not every dictatorship is fascist, by the way). He expresses his dissatisfaction with the system, true, but Padmé is a politician and thus is very politically engaged. That Anakin even cares about the system is probably an important point for her. Moreover, she thought he was messing with her when he said "if it works."
Where does he get the idea that Anakin is begging for sex and that Padmé is being a tease? For one, Anakin ends up marrying her -- which certainly indicates that he didn't just want her for sex -- he'd have gone back down to the club if that were the case. Nor do I recall him crying. Padmé, as I've brought up before, has legitimate concerns about them being together -- concerns that Anakin acknowledges. Oh, and it's nice to see RLM skip every other Padmé and Anakin scene until the confession.
Number one, just to get this out of the way, why is bringing his mother's corpse home bad? I mean, he went to rescue her and she died, was he supposed to just leave her body there?
And here's where I think people don't understand Padmé's reaction at all -- she clearly realizes that he's done something horrible. Yet, at the same time, she also sees the fallout and understands how traumatizing it was for Anakin. And that it's something he did in incredibly stressful circumstances. She sees how broken up he is about it -- not just at his mother's death, but at what he's done. He's saved her people and her own life not too long ago and has just committed a horrible crime in the heat of the moment, but he's not a bad person. And this is where I think Padmé's personality comes in and her weaknesses surface -- she thinks she can help him, that she can "fix" the pain. Because Padmé is that type of person -- when Naboo is threatened, she has to personally oversee its liberation. Even though she didn't want to serve as a Senator, she goes because people need her. She martyrs herself for her causes and can't justify being selfish. And the same is true with Anakin -- she sees now that he needs her, emotionally, and so she decides it's "okay" to be with him because he needs her help. So she's not being selfish if she agrees to stay with him and marry him (which would have negative repercussions for them both) because the good she believes she could bring him outweighs the potentially bad consequences.
And that's a weakness because she thinks she can address Anakin's problems and his emotional instability on her own when she can't; and she should have gotten someone else involved (such as, perhaps, Obi-Wan). But I don't think it would affect her love for him.
Plus, I hardly think that Anakin and Padmé only knew each other for 3 days. Shmi was gone for about a month, so I can imagine it would have been a matter of weeks. Also, you have to consider that a war broke out and people have historically gotten married in haste at the beginning of wars because they don't know if their partner is coming back alive.
Oh, and in regards to how the garage scene in AOTC is inconsistent with that of ANH, on the contrary. Luke in ANH is frustrated with the lack of adventure and excitement in his life. The AOTC garage scene shows us that there are consequences to getting your wish and Luke, himself, eventually faces those.
PiettsHat, I couldn't like your post any more if I had lifetime access to an electrified and Force-enhanced liking machine.
RLM needs psychological help for his anger issues regarding women. Either that or he needs to get laid, badly, but with that attitude, no woman with half an ankstrom of self-respect would do the deed.
And the fact that anyone considers this **** funny is why the women's equality movement still has this far to go. If I ever catch either of my sons talking so disrespectfully about women, there will be hell to pay. Even when they are middle-aged and trying to be funny. Especially if they are middle-aged and think that **** is funny.
So it's looking like RLM's AOTC criticisms are as logically bankrupt as the TPM ones. Nice.
Ok, well that last section was just so obviously a bunch of relationship stereotypes thrown out, that there wasn't a whole lot more to say other than what has already been said. Lets move on to the next part, shall we?
Why is Samuel L. Jackson in Star Wars movies? When I first heard he was going to be in Star Wars, I was like "huh?" AFter a while it made sense to me though. There is a reason why he is in there, and it has nothing to do with him being the best person to portray the "oh so memorable character of Mace Windu." Lets flashback to 1997. Titanic is breaking the box office records all around the world, and at the same time Lucas is shooting Episode 1. While he is waiting around for others to do the work that he will eventually take credit for, he complains about Titanic (Shot of Lucas telling Frank Oz from The Beginning Documentary that "we are never going to beat Titanic, nobody can) You can see how annoyed he is that another director is making more money than him and stealing the spotlight. Now it would be really naive to assume that George Lucas returned to filmmaking just because he wanted to tell the origin story of Star Wars. He's a businessman first and a filmmaker second. But he is a good business man, I will agree with that (shows a shot set to childrens music with lots of SW toys in the camera shot). But the Star Wars Prequels are nothing more than carefully crafted products to appeal to as many moviegoers as possible. He had milked the original trilogy as much as he could by 97, so it was time to move on. Now with all of that said we can discuss Samuel Jackson. Now alot of you might be thinking that he is in Star Wars movies because they wanted to have you know a black guy on the jedi council. And that is kinda true. But there is more to it than that, because the diversity quota had already been filled (shows a couple of the other diverse aliens on the council).When the first Star Wars movie came out, people said "where's all of the black people?" But then in Empire, black people started appearing everywhere. Return of the Jedi was even more diverse. We saw our first black X-Wing pilot, who died. There was an Asian pilot who also died. And Lando even had a Hispanic co-pilot.In Jedi we even got to see the first Jew in Star Wars (shows Salacious Crumb). The Phantom Menace was also a plethora of diversity. We had Asian guys running the Trade Federation, there was a middle eastern junk dealer, and we broke new ground by having the first homosexual in Star Wars (shows Maul and then star playing "male stripper music" as it shows Maul doing the infamous arial during Duel of the Fates). SO by the time Episode 2 was released, diversity wasn't an issue. But what was an issue was demographics. (goes on to ramble on about black people not being a very large Star Wars watching demographic and then implying that Lucas put Sam Jackson in the prequels to help apeeal to that demographic more, even pointing out he cast two of the coolest black actors of all time in SW in Jackson and Bill Dee. He goes on to state that while Billy Dee got to play a really cool character, Sam was horribly miscast in a boring role and that Sam thrives as an actor when he gets to play an intense an more animated role and says he is at his best when he is "screaming" and goes onto to show an array of clips from his filmography of scenes where he is intensely screaming at people and using his trademark explatives. He then states that Lucas could have hired other older black actors that would have been better to take on the role of a wise elder jedi like Morgan Freeman, Sidney Portier, and Forrest Witaker but then implied that Lucas wanted a bigger box office draw than those guys. Then goes on to state that Lucas made everyone think that Sam was going to play an a** kicking jedi, but that was farse and in reality he really didn't do anything, blah blah blah....line reading of clunking dialogue blah blah blah...)...The main point I am trying to make is you can make a film that appeals to all audiences, but you gotta keep all of the elements pretty subdued in order to make it work. When you include the extreme ends of the spectrum that movies could go to in order to sell your movie to everyone possible (shows a shot of Jar Jar doing a goofy antic right next to the shot of Anakin burning alive in ROTS to show the contrast) from like baby stuff to extreme hardcore violence, it becomes a big ****ing dissaster. Abe Lincoln once said, "you can fool all of the people some of the time, and some...", ah **** it. Am I making any sense? Some times I ramble...
Wow. Just wow.
Sexist and racist. "Hey, let's count the black people in Empire Strikes Back!"
I really shouldn't be surprised, but...yeah, shame of me for expecting that in the 21st century, no one would take this ***hole seriously.
RLM is a film production company.
Very well. Stoklasa then.
Mike Stoklasa isn't Harry S. Plinkett, though. They have different names.
Actually, anakinfan, Catherine has a point. Plinkett is a character, and sexist humor is popular. Family Guy, anyone?
And ironically, this highlights the problem with speaking for all self-respecting women.
*tenses up* For the record, I'm neither defending RLM's real or fake opinions regarding women or the prequels. I'm only defending the right to have a sense of humor.
It's not just about sexism. Mr. Plinkett is supposed to be completely reprehensible in all respects. He is sexist, racist, homophobic, a pedophile, a zoophile, a kidnapper, a murderer, a drug addict, a psychopath, and an old person. If he were a real person I would be more disturbed by the fact that he is a serial killer than that he is a misogynist. I don't think Brett Easton Ellis really supports murdering prostitutes with chainsaws, but I could be wrong.
Eh, misogyny, murder. Same difference.