PT Rebuttal: RLM's Attack of the Clones Review

I've said it too! It's my main beef with the TPM (far worse than Jar-Jar and fart jokes).
What saddens me is that the initial drafts of TPM *had* Obi-Wan is the central character. Why Lucas decided to go off on a tangent, I have no idea.

 

Ok, on to the next part:

"(refering to the Coruscant chase sequence)I could spend 10 hours just talking about how incredibly dumb this entire sequence is....but I am going to try to do it in 9. So the plot is that someone is trying to kill Amidala for no reason and ANakin and Obi-Wan are assigned to protect her. SO she doesn't sleep in an interior bedroom of this building with no window where it would be safer, but rather in a room with the blinds half open with a city of 900 quadrillion can see her, especially the robot that is there to kill her. They are saying they are doing this so she could be bait to catch the assassin. But she turns off any kind of camera surveilance so she could have her privacy. Is that more important than your life you dumb bimbo? At the very least aim the cameras at the windows because thats the only way in. YOu see surveilence cameras are only useful for some kind of slow attack that you can come on in and stop. They won't do any good if someone like launched a missle at the building or perhaps fired a purple space bazooka at a window. Gee, maybe you better rethink this whole bait thing idiots. In fact, this assassin character actually has a blaster rifle and seems like she is a pretty good shot. She could have just parked her speeder across the street and shot Padme through the window. She apparently knew where she was sleeping because she sent the robot there. ALso, what makes them so sure the assassin is going to try to kill her tonight? See the thing with assassins is, they strike when you least exp...(cuts off)".....(shows Typho saying that the situation is more dangerous than the senator will admit), "Yeah, a situation so dangerous, you are walking around in the middle of broad daylight when Padme is clearly visible through many open windows. ANd you're the security chief? So instead they are waiting for the assassin to strike tonight. It's like they read the script in advance. But then a floating robot thing cuts a hole in the glass and releases deadly centipedes into the room. You know if this robot was equiped with a blaster, kablamo, no more Amidala. SO any way, these bugs were given to this assassin by a guy named Boba Fett, who is also an assassin, who technically is a bounty hunter but I am sure he could get the job done. SO why exactly did an assassin hire another assassin? WHy didn't he just do the job himself if they're his clients? Everyone seems to know where Padme's room is anyway, and Boba Fett does have a jet pack that he could launch a rocket out of. ANyways, so because R2-D2 didn't aim his scanners at the window, the most likely place an attack would occur from, deadly bugs get in the room. Anakin senses them and runs in the room and kills them. Then Obi-Wan goes against his own advice and recklessly throws himself out the window at the probe droid. A couple of things here he didn't know. A) He didn't know if he could catch the robot in time before falling to his death B) If the probe could even support his weight C) That the probe was not also a small bomb that would have exploded when he grabbed it. This is another case of classic role reversal as well. Anakin should have been the one who jumped out the window after the probe droid. Obi-Wan would have made like an annoyed face and then went out after him in the Jetson's car. Obi-Wan didn't seem to have much interest in this assignment anyways other than to provide basic protection. AFter getting his gundark stuck in Anakin's nest, he wanted to just phone this one in. Are you guys sure that wasn't supposed to be Anakin jumping throughthe window? Did they make a mistake when filming this scene and just left it? Wait, Amidala's head of security has no depth perception? No I take it back. Obi-Wan, maybe you should start an investigation...(a few jokey lines by Plinkett)...SO Obi-Wan is flying around on this thing and Anakin somehow knows how to find him, even though by the time he gets the speeder, Obi-Wan is probably 500 miles away. I guess the force told him where to go, so he could eventually become Darth Vader. WHat

 

I guess since we've apparently entered non-sequitur country...... Mr. "Shoe-horn Contrivance" trumps Mr. Ed.

No, that's something Katie Lucas might say, though....

Besides, it's not a 'defense', because there's nothing to 'defend'. The point is, keep things in perspective; you'd do better to worry about 'straw-men' committed by the series creator - you know, by the guy who has the most impact on how SW is presented to the public, rather than those supposedly committed by somebody on the internet who has no such impact.

It doesn't, because only ONE side is making assumptions concerning the plot*, whereas the other side is not. If 'burden of proof' comes into it at all, the onus is on the side making unwarranted assumptions about the plot.

*hint: it's the side who posits a Jedi 'investigation' without any justification, save the 'justification' that the subplot has to be there in order to keep the Jedi from looking dumb.

"the same goes for establishing that they (Yoda and Obi-Wan) did NOT talk OFF-SCREEN about wanting Luke to 'bring back' Anakin from the spell of the dark side. Yet somehow, "we didn't see it/they didn't talk about it on-screen" is alleged to be good enough. No anti-Yoda/Obi-Wan bias to see here, move along." -

Unlike SW/ANH, where, you know, we actually saw/heard Tarkin make reference to the Emperor disbanding the Senate, instead of having to just assume that it happened.

 

..Obi-Wan has the exact same reaction as RLM regarding the cameras ("what is she thinking?"). That's when Anakin explains that it is her idea and that he intends to rely on his Jedi senses to alert himself to the danger. And honestly, cameras aren't going to be all that helpful in the dark considering it's well, dark. Even if they used infrared, a droid isn't going to necessarily show up unless it produces a heat signal.

I guess RLM has never heard of bulletproof glass? I'm sure the GFFA has an equivalent. Especially for an apartment complex housing politicians.

The bodyguard assignment was quite prolonged, given that Anakin and Padme eventually went off to Naboo together. Also, I think it's pretty clear that Padme is getting tired of the security ("I don't need more protection. I need answers.") and is willing to put herself in a more visible situation to lure the assassin out so they can find out who is behind the attempts on her life. Her increased vulnerability at night, then, is a calculated ploy to draw out her attackers and put an end to this situation that is impeding her work in the Senate.

I think that RLM also ignored that the attack on the platform is not the first. After all, right after it occurs, Padme says "Do you have any idea who's behind these attacks?"

Note also that Jango tells Zam Wessel that his "client is getting impatient."

Clearly, this has been going on for a while, so they're expecting another attempt while, at the same time, trying to lure the assassin into a situation where they can be questioned.

Bulletproof glass? In our world, at least as I understand it, bulletproof glass functions by absorbing the energy of the bullet but is still able to be cut relatively easily.

 

?(refering to the Coruscant chase sequence)I could spend 10 hours just talking about how incredibly dumb this entire sequence is....but I am going to try to do it in 9.?

I could spend hours explaining how dumb your entire review is, but I only need one sentence: You hate the movie and still, you've devoted hours, if not DAYS, to creating this review.

?So the plot is that someone is trying to kill Amidala for no reason and ANakin and Obi-Wan are assigned to protect her. SO she doesn't sleep in an interior bedroom of this building with no window where it would be safer, but rather in a room with the blinds half open with a city of 900 quadrillion can see her, especially the robot that is there to kill her.?

Typho has already explained to you that she won't admit how dangerous the situation is. Besides:

?They are saying they are doing this so she could be bait to catch the assassin.?
Exactly.

?But she turns off any kind of camera surveilance so she could have her privacy. Is that more important than your life you dumb bimbo??

There are Jedi in the next room. As the movie will show, surveillance cameras are not needed.

?At the very least aim the cameras at the windows because thats the only way in.?

I guess, but then, noone's above making mistakes.

?You see surveilence cameras are only useful for some kind of slow attack that you can come on in and stop. They won't do any good if someone like launched a missle at the building or perhaps fired a purple space bazooka at a window. Gee, maybe you better rethink this whole bait thing idiots.?

This is really due to Padmé's unwillingness to admit the severity of the situation. She obviuosly calls the shots here.

?In fact, this assassin character actually has a blaster rifle and seems like she is a pretty good shot. She could have just parked her speeder across the street and shot Padme through the window. She apparently knew where she was sleeping because she sent the robot there.?

Would she dare, with the Jedi there? I think not.

?Also, what makes them so sure the assassin is going to try to kill her tonight??

Who said they are? Do security personnel only work when criminals are going to do their thing? Is that how it works where you live?

?See the thing with assassins is, they strike when you least exp...(cuts off)".....(shows Typho saying that the situation is more dangerous than the senator will admit), Yeah, a situation so dangerous, you are walking around in the middle of broad daylight when Padme is clearly visible through many open windows. ANd you're the security chief??

As I said, Padmé calls the shots. She's obviously a matriarch in her own apartment. Is that a problem?

?So instead they are waiting for the assassin to strike tonight. It's like they read the script in advance.?

You should have your brain checked.

?But then a floating robot thing cuts a hole in the glass and releases deadly centipedes into the room. You know if this robot was equiped with a blaster, kablamo, no more Amidala.?

Would you trust a robot with a gun? The bounty hunters obviously don?t.

?SO any way, these bugs were given to this assassin by a guy named Boba Fett??

And your name is Quincy Stoklasa.

??who is also an assassin, who technically is a bounty hunter but I am sure he could get the job done. SO why exactly did an assassin hire another assassin? WHy didn't he just do the job himself if they're his clients? Everyone seems to know where Padme's room is anyway, and Boba Fett does have a jet pack that he could launch a rocket out of.?

There are bigger things at stake here. JANGO's primary objective is, believe it or not, not to kill Amidala, but to lead the Jedi to the clone army. The Sith obviously don't need Padmé's head to convince Nute Gunray to join their cause. Jango may or may not be aware of this, but what Dooku really wants out of this is for the Jedi to find the clones and start the war. If Jango is captured

 

When did Vader sense that Luke was on Hoth? He had probe droids search the galaxy, if he knew Luke was on Hoth why waste his time? Vader gets the probe droid info from Hoth and like Piett, he concludes that this is where the rebels are. And since Luke is with the rebels, that is where he is as well. I never got the idea that Vader sensed him. If he had, Luke's X-wing would not have gotten away and Vader know that Luke was on it.

As the movie show, the glass isn't bulletproof as a person can throw themselves through it without much difficulty. And I think RLM's point is that once the droid has cut through the glass THEN it can shoot Padme or throw a bomb or release gas. This would have killed Padme.

I am sorry but this reasoning is extremely illogical.
First, it assumes that Palpatine, Dooku and Jango would all KNOW that Zam's attempts would fail. If Padme had been killed on the platform this whole plan is ruined.
Second, it also assumes that Jango would KNOW that the bugs would fail, that the droid would go back to Zam, that the Jedi would follow it, chase Zam and catch Zam and he has to be around to shoot her.
Third, the Jedi archives has been tampered with and Kamino removed. This suggest that someone did NOT want the planet found.
Forth, the same Jedi archives proved useless in finding out where the dart came from.
The only reason Obi-Wan got anywhere is due to his friend Dex. So if this was all planned then Palpatine, Dooku, Jango would all KNOW that Obi-Wan would get the job and they would KNOW that he knows Dex and Dex knows about Kamino.
Fifth, Jango almost got caught on Kamino, if Obi-Wan had manged to take him in, Palpatines plan could fail. Jango could tell the Jedi that Dooku hired him to be the clone army template and lots of other things. So from Jango's POV and Palpatines/Dookus, Jango getting caught would be a disaster.
Sixth, Dooku was getting impatient, this suggest that Nute demanded results and we see this later in the film. So Dooku could not hold of for too long or Nute leaves and the seps collapse. So Dooku has every reason to want Padme dead as soon as possible.
Lastly, none of these convolouted things are even needed. Once Padme is dead and the army bill is passed, Palpatine can "find" the clone army and he can also arrange for someone to "hear" about an impending seps attack. Then the war starts.

Regards
Nordom

 

They don't need to know anything about which Jedi gets the job - only that the Jedi will, somehow, succeed.
The bugs don't need to fail, either. Anakin and Obi-Wan would still follow the droid.
The failed bomb in the beginning may well be due to Palpatine machinations - He knows Padmé, after all, and could've made sure that she wasn't on that ship.
You're assuming that Jango knows who Tyranus is. I assume that he doesn't.
As I said, Dooku obviously only needed to promise Padmé's head to Nute. Nute is weak and easily manipulated.
Lastly, Palpatine wants to stay above all possible suspicions. If he would "find" the army, his political position would risk getting compromised.

Besides, Palpatine wants emergency powers.

Oh, I forgot: Whoever erased Kamino from the archives wanted them to find the army when the time was right.





Oh, yeah
/LM

 

Just a few little extra notes here:

- I've long had the impression that Zam is an amateur. She shows amateur-like mistakes: over-confidence, physical awkwardness, sudden panic, a misguided belief she'll be safe from two Jedi in a small building, and the ease with which she relinquishes information to Anakin. I mean, she was a stooge, really: the shape-shifting female fated to die every bit as much as those all-male, meticulously-trained clones; or, indeed, Anakin turning to the Dark Side; or the Jedi Order being wiped out. It's quite sad, really.

- The line from Obi-Wan, to Anakin, about being "extra careful" is amusingly silly; but also dark. The impetus for Obi-Wan making this warning is Anakin relaying to Obi-Wan that Zam is not only a shapeshifter, but a "she". And not just a "she", but a "he" possibly posing or in some other way being a "she". This otherwise-throwaway remark hints at the deep sense of gender prejudice at the heart of the Jedi Order, the Empire, and pretty much every hierarchy in Star Wars (yes, even those with females at the top). Much like the movie's opening scene -- thick layers of fog -- hints at, this revelation is cloaked by the ambiguous nature of which part of Anakin's revelation Obi-Wan is responding to; and may even be cloaked (Obi-Wan's prejudice) to Obi-Wan himself. Truly, in this film, "the shroud of the Dark Side has fallen". A dominant motif in this film is women being killed or edged out of the picture: Corde, Zam, and Shmi all bite it in critical death scenes; and Taun We is practically cut off from the frame as Obi-Wan tours the cloning facility and is addressed by her male superior (and the Kaminoans are all sperm-heads).

- The Jedi acting like undercover cops is not especially unusual in this setting. What else are they meant to do? Loudly beat on their chests, meditate on tables, start a conga line in the club? Or maybe the limbo? I can just see it. "How low can you go? How low can you go?" Obi-Wan disqualifies himself when his lightsaber touches the edge (ooh!); then he falls over drunk. Anakin then has to carry his booze-ridden master back to the Jedi Temple. "We didn't catch the assassin, but we had some really great tequila shots. And Master Obi-Wan, as usual, couldn't hold his liquour. Isn't it time you made me a Jedi Master yet?" ANYWAY. The undercover cop thing is great. It's almost like Anakin is tripping on the power slightly. The little derisive hand waves, the moody looks, and the disdainful command: "Jedi business, go back to your drinks." This is tremendous character detail. Anakin clearly has a hint of disgust at people who drink and gamble their wealth away, leading Sybaritic lifestyles while he and his Jedi brethren fearlessly try to protect the Republic and uphold law and order. In his mind, he's helping society, while they're only in it for themselves, partying ad libitum. It actually shades his pursuit of Padme (the cultured, sophisticated beauty who is equally devoted to doing good); not to mention his turn to the Dark Side. A contempt for hedonistic pursuits -- or the hoi polloi that indiscreetly and unabashedly embrace transitory, sensual delights -- is common to dictators and many forms of idealistic thinking gone wrong. And it's always hypocritical. In Anakin's case, he starts a forbidden romance with a senator, gets drunk on the Dark Side, and spent his formative years racing death pods, rife with gambling and corruption ("But mom, I love it!"). This is one hell of a story where the little details really count.

- One other thing about the club setting, while not strictly related to the RLM material, is that it's a place where the truth comes closer to revealing itself -- or does it? The great choice of having Anthony Daniels and Ahmed Best "as themselves", but yes, not really as themselves, ditto one of Lucas' daughters, suggests, tentatively, that Anakin and Obi-Wan are closer to reality, if you like, than they are at any other point in the story. The contemporary vibe of the club also fits in with this. And the female patrons that ch

 

Wrong. If the "other side" hadn't made assumptions about the plot, this wouldn't have come up. Go back and read Nordom's posts more carefully. This "aggressive denial" tactic is a logical deathtrap anyway. If the "other side" isn't making assumptions about the plot, then the "other side" would presumably have no problem with this aspect of the plot in the first place.

No, the point was your strawmanning problem. Trying to escape this problem by pointing the finger at Lucas isn't going to work. Lucas isn't posting in the thread.

I don't know who supposedly took that implied position, but whoever it was ( if they even exist ), it wasn't me. You might have noticed I'm discussing a completely separate topic in an entirely different trilogy. But by all means continue with the pathetic strawman tactics and side conversations with imaginary people.

Why would it? Why would a basher be expected to prove their case? Such a thing could only lead to problems.

Given that the practice of Jedi investigation is explicitly mentioned in two out of three prequels, it's the "Jedi do not investigate" side that is making unwarranted assumptions. These assumptions are based on no evidence whatsoever, and are merely a special-pleading attempt to manufacture imaginary Jedi inaction out of thin air. As usual, an anti-PT stance supported by no evidence is deemed to be right simply because it's anti-PT.

Glad you understand the concept. By the way, I saw the film.

No, it isn't, believe it or not.

 

Yes, it is, believe it or not.





Short answer vs short answer - what fun
/LM

 

No, it really isn't. There are some things which we do not believe because they are not true. This is one of them.

Palpatine doesn't have the total control of Padme's retinue that would be necessary to micromanage who gets killed in a bomb attack and who doesn't. That would be an example of bending over backwards to try to make a failing argument work. You also might be overlooking Jango's reaction to Obi-Wan's arrival on Kamino.

Yet if Obi-Wan had not known Dex, and if Dex had not happened to find a saberdart on Subterrel, the trail would have gone cold. Thus, there is no way to assume that "the Jedi will, somehow, succeed". If that Jedi does not coincidentally happen to have the specific connections that Obi-Wan does, the so-called "plan" fails.

 

Oh, that's right, I forgot about the scene where Jango reacts to Obi-Wan's arrival on Kamino... Which one was that again? First, there was the scene where he's a stoneface without the helmet. then, there's the scene where he's a stoneface with the helmet.
Wait a minute - That's right, Jango didn't show any reaction to Obi-Wan's arrival on Kamino!

Palpatine doesn't have that control? Says who? Did Lucas say that? I never heard him say that.
Suppose that the bomb was his plan A, then. The MCA then gets clearance and Palpatine can "find" the clone army.
What happens in the movie would then be plan B.

Don't forget, BTW, the kouhuns. They would most likely be traceable. Come to think of it, Jango's use of kouhuns and Kamino saber darts, which would be traceable, are an indication that there's more to this than a simple assassination attempt.
The Jedi were meant to follow up on it and find the clones.

...not to mention the fact that the Sith would probably know that Jedi in general have contact with all kinds of people, like traders, star pilots, smugglers etc.
They were bound to find Kamino.





Jedi - they trace things
/LM

 

I have to say, I didn't foresee this strategy, but I guess I should have. I think it is time I inform the senate that my ability to use the Force has diminished.

Palpatine does have that control? Says who? Did Lucas say that? I never heard him say that.

The Plan A / Plan B thing really doesn't help your case; in fact, it works against it. If Palpatine can have Plan A, Plan B, etc., then Jango leading the Jedi to Kamino doesn't have to be part of his plan at all.

I don't see any reason to assume such a thing.

Once again, the Jedi wouldn't have been able to trace the saberdart if it hadn't been for Obi-Wan's connection to Dex and Dex's chance finding of a saberdart on Subterrel, factors which would not have been planned for. The Jedi temple analysis droids couldn't tell Obi-Wan anything about the origin of the dart. Thus the so-called "plan" leads straight to a dead end.

The Sith would probably see the Jedi in general as cloistered monks who had largely shut themselves off from the galaxy at large. On a case-by-case basis, there would be no way to predict that the Jedi assigned to investigate would have the right connections.

 

And how does that help your case? It's part of his plan.

They're exotic, as is the Kamino saber dart. In movies, exotic things are traceable.

Once again, Jedi know people who know people (look up the edit in my last post). They were bound to find Kamino.





My view is airtight
/LM

 

When I use the phrase "Plan B" in relation to Palpatine, I'm referring to Palpatine's approach being flexible enough to adapt to changing circumstances. In other words, I don't mean that "Plan B" was part of the plan all along. But you've seriously undermined your own case by suggesting that blowing Amidala up could have been Plan A. If that's the case, Palpatine didn't need Jango to lead the Jedi to Kamino, and if Palpatine didn't need Jango to lead the Jedi to Kamino, then there is no reason for it to have been part of his plan at all.

And yet no one in the movie discovered a Kamino connection from the kouhuns, imagine that. They're life forms. For all we know they could be found on various planets with no connection to Kamino whatsoever.

No, they weren't. Since only one Jedi happened by chance to know the right person, that "Jedi know people" is not enough to base the alleged plan on, if the plan is intended to have more than an infinitesimal chance of success.

You mean the one I already addressed in my last post?

 

I apologize for my sarcastic outburst, BTW. That's not really like me. I have to stop doing this at work...
Again, sorry about that. I'll be nice from now on.





Sarcasm - it sucks sometimes
/LM

 

But Admiral Ozzel still had a point didn't he? Thousands of droids had been dispatched and yet Vader says, with absolute certainty, that Luke is on Hoth. It just struck me as odd. It's one thing to say that Hoth is the most likely planet, but Vader says "That's it! The rebels are there. And I'm sure Skywalker is with them." I find it strange that Vader was so absolutely certain of his decision and outright dismissed Ozzel's (in my view) somewhat reasonable objections. It's not the fact that Luke is with the rebels or that they sent probe droids out, but I find it curious that Vader knows where they are as soon as he gets some life readings from Hoth -- Han hasn't even destroyed the probe by this point if I recall correctly.

Oh, I'm not saying it's exactly bulletproof glass. I think it's merely an equivalent. Weapons in the GFFA are energy-based whereas we tend to use kinetic weapons. I don't think it's improbable then, that Padme would have windows that might absorb a blaster's energy beams but is, as a result, weak against direct physical blows.

I can see your point about the post-glass cutting to a degree, but I don't understand why the "insects" were so bad an assassination method. Gas, in my view, is less functional since it's less targeted, will take a while to spread, and Padme's room is not sealed. And a bomb or a shooting weapon might have been discarded by the assassin because of a heat signature (infrared cameras). After all, bombs in the GFFA are called thermal detonators so it's possible. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I don't see why the bugs are an illegitimate form of assassination -- a blaster might fail to go off or a bomb might be a dud as well.

Either way, I think the assassination attempt would have had a hard time happening simply because you have two skilled Jedi watch the force for any sign of danger. As soon as a warning called out, they would have rushed to Padme's side (and blocked the blot, thrown the bomb out of the room/shielded her, etc.).

 

The one Jedi who happened to receive the mission to track down Jango just so happened to know the right person? That's not very believable. It definitely indicates that Jedi in general have connections of that kind.

I agree that Palpatine's plans adapt to the current situation, but that doesn't exclude the possibility that he does have a very distinct plan B. I assume that he does, because it feels right.





Jedi - they have connections
/LM

 

Wow, that's a big wall of text, Luuke! God bless your soul...

The room is near the top of a skyscraper, so it's not like the average person has access. And oh yeah, the windows were shielded. The killer droid was shown using some laser/force field device to cut a small hole in the shield.

As TPM showed during the battle between the Gungans and the Trade Federation, shields are great at stopping big and fast attacks. Smaller and slower things can breach them more easily.

That's your answer right there.

She has "cameras." Both R2-D2, as well as a Jedi in the next room with literal psychic powers.

As I said above, the window was shielded. The droid had to cut through with a special device.

Why did it have to be that very night? They could do the same exact thing the next night. It's not like R2 and Anakin standing on watch, something they'd be doing anyway, is some big investment of resources.

Or more like Stoklasa is desperately trying to create problems in the script.

Wow, people work with partners? Never heard of such a thing!

BTW, the story was strained enough by the fact that Jango Fett, the clone DNA source, even got his hands dirty. If Jango was to be involved at all, it would make sense for him to work through someone else so that he could cover his tracks.

The shielded window. Who knows, maybe there are vents or other doors to the bedroom. But yes, this was an oversight. I really don't care, because action movies aren't written so that everyone is perfectly careful, with all of their bases covered.

 

Obi-Wan isn't completely perfect and consistent. You know, like real people. In fact, Obi-Wan is written like an overbearing know-it-all who talks down to Anakin as if he's perfect. I actually think some mistakes and hypocrisy on his part make him more nuanced and realistic.

A) He made a snap judgment during a combat situation, so what? Oh yeah, he's also a Jedi who's trained to make snap judgments because he relies on the Force to keep him alive.
B) Same as the above. Also, what if typical droids that size are easily capable of lifting humans?
C) Same as above. And really, this is Stoklasa making a completely unfounded assumption, and then using that as a reason why a character can't make a snap decision.

This is another case of Stoklasa not even understanding the basics of what the characters are supposed to represent, and expressing his preference for one-dimensional characterization. Anakin is the reckless youth so he's ALWAYS the reckless youth. Obi-Wan tells Anakin to be more cautious, so Obi-Wan must ALWAYS be cautious.

In his TPM review, Stoklasa already showed that he doesn't have the slightest idea what the Obi-Wan/Anakin relationship was. It went so far that his suggested alternative was that Anakin fails because he was "poorly trained," and Obi-Wan must just be stupid. As I've said many times before, the actual portrayal is a strained father/son relationship. Obi-Wan criticizes Anakin over things that just tend to happen, as well as mistakes that he himself commits.

It's pretty clearly a metaphor for how close-minded and overly critical older generations can be. I've seen old timers talk from a high horse about how polite, courteous, and educated they were, and then embarass themselves in social situations with stupid behavior. I've seen a guy lecturing a younger man about controlling his temper, only to blow up and scream his head when he was put in a bad situation on a later date. It's very, very easy to talk a good game, when you're not the person doing.

Kind of like a certain someone with a video review?

Here's a hint: When Obi-Wan falls, he's completely screwed until Anakin saves him. When Anakin falls, it's something he does on purpose, which he's completely confident in even while Obi-Wan is there to doubt him.

The intention of the scene is pretty clear to me. Anakin is the Chosen One and has unmatched natural talent, far beyond Obi-Wan's capabilities. Obi-Wan, however, doesn't believe in his student. He's blind to Anakin's abilities, and judges his Padawan according to his own personal limitations. Ever see a parent tell their child that they couldn't do something, just because they couldn't do it themselves?

But who cares about all these themes and meanings! Simplistic one-note writing is the way to go! Anakin is always reckless, and Obi-Wan is always cautious!

 

She tries to KILL Anakin first, before he even took out his lightsaber. First by trying to throw him from the speeder. Then by taking out her blaster and taking multiple shots at him.

The Force? You know, that thing that allowed Anakin to wait in the right place and time his jump to begin with?

Yeah, going into a crowded public place isn't indicative of trying to hide.

Or you know, maybe she was scared and knew she couldn't outrun two Jedi, so she tried to throw them off by going into a dark and crowded place.

Stoklasa's really bad at understanding things, isn't he?

Yeah, because no one ever tells a friend to "be careful" in an obviously dangerous situation. Keep whining away. Oh I'm sorry, this must be his "humor." Wow, what insightful and witty jokes these are.

Because people don't always make the right decisions, especially after a stressful chase and combat situation? Because she saw an immediate opportunity and went for it, as people often do?

Look at the way he tries to pick apart the behavior of a minor villain here. How does someone like this watch the Original Trilogy, with all the stupid things that the Empire does? Oh yeah, with rose tinted glasses on.

Is he being completely sarcastic here? Because this criticism here is mind bogglingly awful even by his own standards. Anakin has a dark side. He becomes Darth Vader. He has anger management issues, and he's very hung up on protecting his friends. Of course Anakin's going to be a little pissed when he's confronting the person who tried to kill Padme. Who shot at him just a few minutes ago.

Is this more of that cutting, insightful humor? Or another lousy attempt to find fault with the movie, where none exists?

You know, it takes a special kind of effort to pore over people's every word, trying to create inconsistencies like this. People do not talk and think in a way that would meet such ridiculous standards of consistency. People are not simplistic, black-and-white extremists, who don't adjust what they say according to the situation. Well, Stoklasa might be, but he's clearly not the norm.

Is he really surprised that Obi-Wan would say that a Jedi's life might depend on their only weapon during a combat situation? That's the actual point that Obi-Wan is making, not some stupidity about how the Jedi's life is all about fighting.

 

How long did Yoda even spend with Luke? And oh yeah, Obi-Wan trained him on the lightsaber.

He clearly doesn't understand much of anything.

Does Stoklasa whine like this every time a movie villain gets away?

I'm so glad I'm only reading this, and not watching this garbage.

I've asked the question before: THIS is the geek idol who's supposedly showing Lucas up with his intelligent, insightful, and airtight criticisms? This is the guy who supposedly ended all debate about the prequels, to the point where certain people just post links to his videos with no comment?

And let's not forget the usual excuses. How much of the above are just jokes that weren't meant to be taken seriously (which undercuts their validity as criticism anyway)? How much of the above is just his "opinion?" How many "leaps in logic" did I have to make to refute him? If anyone was grasping at straws, it's him. The assassin possibly being an innocent "mind control" victim...Anakin not knowing that person who shot at him is a bad guy...really? Stoklasa is his own bad parody.

 

Deleted scene.

What's not believable is that Palpatine's plan would depend on such a thing.

It only indicates that Obi-Wan has such connections. Jocasta Nu, for example, most likely doesn't.

I rest my case.

 

So you admit that I'm right? Thanks!





I'm right
/LM

 

I've thought this through now and while I don't agree with your assessment that only Obi-Wan would have the right connections (and I said Jedi in general, not all of them), it is likely that Palpatine's original plan was for the MCA to get clearance and that he would gain more power as the war carried on. The Jedi's finding of the clones was always a possibility that he had a contingency plan for. That contingency plan is pretty much what happens in the movie, with a few tweaks to adapt to the situation (the Jedi might not have found the Separatists on Geonosis, for instance, but the Sith would still have used the situation to their advantage).
Palpatine's motive for bringing Obi-Wan into the picture, BTW, is probably to bring Anakin closer to the dark side by having him around when Padmé is murdered. He would've picked up on Anakin's feelings for her during those ten years.





Palpatine - he picks things up
/LM