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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

PT Rebuttal: RLM's Attack of the Clones Review

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Luukeskywalker, Feb 29, 2012.

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  1. Nordom

    Nordom Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 1, 2004

    The shape shifting thing was added in post, during filming the character was a regular person so then trying to hide your face makes sense. If the character can look like anyone then a mask makes no sense. Nor does it make much sense that she never tried to use her powers in the bar. Simply go to the bathroom and knock someoneout and take their clothes and assume their face and walk out. Simple and effective. If you make the effort to give someone a special power but then that power is never really used, esp in situations where it would be a good idea, it seems odd. And no I did not need RLM to notice this, I found it odd the first time I saw the movie.

    Why is it an unfounded assumption? Self-destruct devices are not some unknown tech in the SW galaxy. In ESB, the imperial probe droid self-destructed when it got attacked.
    This droid was apparently programmed to react if discovered. So why wouldn't it have a self-destruct device? It removes all evidence and whoever sent it can't be traced.
    Instead, the droid stupidly RETURNS to the person who sent it, allowing others to follow it. That is retarded.


    Which would have done them no good if the assassin had used a more direct method, like a blaster, bomb or deadly gas. R2 seemed "asleep" much of the time and when he did look around he didn't see the droid or the bugs. Great camera there.

    The city is full of flying things so having access is not an issue, simply fly up to the window. Which is what happened.

    As the movies show that a person can throw themselves TRHOUGH that window it indicates that the window is neither shielded nor bulletproof. The beams we see might simply be an alarm. Also all shields that I recall seeing have been spherical, not thin lines.
    The droid deflected the alarm beams and then cut through the window.

    Also the movie shows Padme walking around infront of other big windows whith lots of floating things outside. An assassin could have been on any one of those things and have some kind of ranged weapon.

    Regards
    Nordom
     
  2. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    More great stuff, Jim. Luuke, give yourself three pats on the back for starting this thread, my friend!

    I think I got a bit confused earlier. The "undercover thug cop" bit is obviously the part where Anakin berates Zam in the alley. I was talking about the part before where Anakin prowls the nightclub while Obi-Wan gets a drink to flush Zam out. In that part, they're not so much undercover cops as tooled-up enforcers, which kinda caps off the "buddy cop" aspect of the movie (yet another genre that AOTC greedily devours into its complex allegorical framework). What's cool about this part is that it's also Lucas tipping his hat to one of the underlying inspirations for the Jedi, dating back to the original movie: E.E. Smith's "Lensman" series and its psionic enforcement arm of the same name, belonging to the Galactic Patrol (much as the Jedi Knights belong to the Jedi Order serving the Galactic Republic).

    Like you say, Anakin is rather hacked off when confronting Zam face-to-face, so it's not surprising to see that he feigns warmth ("Who hired you? Tell us..."), followed by a genuine blast of anger ("TELL US NOW!"). In the heat of the moment, Obi-Wan lets it slide, and may even think it isn't a half-way bad tactic, but Anakin slightly losing control here might also form part of his concern to the Jedi a little later: "His abilities have made him, well, arrogant." In any case, that's idle speculation, not really needed here, but I'm bringing it up to suggest that nothing Lucas does goes to waste, or at least doesn't have a dozen tiny strands of follow-up. However, if you were to go by any portion of the RLM reviews, nothing fits, and nothing has any thought or meaning behind it. How can anyone who keeps stating and implying this be so revered for their alleged insights? Not just acclaimed for providing therapy to people disenchanted with the prequel movies, but actual insights!

    A final thing I'll quibble here is Plinkett's assertion that the Jedi are "peaceful guardians". No-where does it say this in Star Wars. Rather, characters and crawls make the crucially different claim: "guardians of peace and justice". This is considerably darker when you pause for a second to think about it. The Jedi have special licence to use force (and *the* Force) in their never-ending battle to keep the Republic and basic decency afloat, which means they are always partially going outside the law. Violence to them, by them, isn't extraordinary; it's the norm. In many respects, the Jedi are the opposite of peaceful. It's one of those twisted "the ends justify the means" situations. Again, it is this climate and culture which allows the Sith to wrest control and Darth Vader to be born. Lucas is showing us from the earliest stages. To wit, the very first deployment of lightsabers in the PT, and by extension, the Star Wars saga, is a highly reactive one, and proves to be of no good to two Jedi who are being gassed. No sooner have they drawn their sabers than they must deactivate them. Hair-trigger responses, and their casual way with violence in all its guises, will eventually be their downfall. The RLM material has no grasp of the aesthetics or morals of this story whatsoever.
     
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  3. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    No, I admit that your stance "feels right" to you. Not the same thing.
     
  4. Lars_Muul

    Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 2, 2000
    I understand that. My reply was a joke.





    Jokers - they wear makeup
    /LM
     
  5. Nordom

    Nordom Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 1, 2004
    If there has been other attacks, where did they take place? Before Padme came to Coruscant is most likely but where? Did Padme come from Naboo? Most likely. So did these attacks happen ON Naboo? This would seem to be the case and Mace says that the evidence points to disgruntled miners on Naboo.
    BUT if this is so then why send Padme back to Naboo? If attempts had been made on her life there, why would she be safe there? That reasoning is less than bright anyway as Naboo would be the first place an assassin would look but if there had been attacks on Naboo before then it is even more foolish to go there.

    The TF and the seps trust robots with guns, hence why they have big droid armies.
    So obviously the idea to arm droids is not far fetched. And the empire did the same with their probe droids.

    Did Zam KNOW that there would be Jedi in the appartment? They had just been asigned and unless Palpatine told her, how would she know?

    Wait, so Zam can ONLY change into ONE other form? That makes this shapeshifting rather limited. Why would she only be able to have just ONE human face?

    The SW galaxy have other weapons than energy ones, AotC has lots of rockets for ex.
    So a rocket, since that is kinetic energy, would break the glass and then BOOM, dead Padme.
    Gas, well that depends on the gas. Some gas is VERY lethal and you need only trace amounts to kill someone. And spread is not a problem. Simply put in a spring that ejects a canister into the room. Zam obvioulsy is not concerned with collateral damage.
    The droid itself must have an energy source so IF there were IR cameras present they would have spotted it. A bomb can just be chemicals and they would not show up on IR cameras. The flaw with the bugs is that if someone else was in the room, the bugs could to for him/her instead of Padme.

    Lastly, did Zam know there would be Jedi present? Palpatine assigned them that day and how would Jango or Zam know this?



     
  6. Lars_Muul

    Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 2, 2000
    First of all, I changed my mind a few posts back.
    Second, Jango said that he was recruited by a name called Tyranus. He never said that he saw his face, met him in person or even spoke to him. Why would Dooku let Jango in on their scheme? He's just a pawn and letting him know too much would endanger everything.

    About the assassin droid: Jango chose kouhuns. He seems to be an experienced assassin, so we should assume that he knows what he's doing. He seems to put more trust in these centipedes than in an assassin droid with a blaster, so we should assume that his experience tells him that they are more trustworthy assassins than a droid with a blaster would be.
    That's not a stretch or a leap in logic, but a sound deduction based on what happens in the film. If you don't want to buy that... Your loss, mate.

    Next: Why wouldn't Jango and Zam know that Jedi had been assigned to protect Padmé? They would do a pretty lousy job if they didn't. Besides, if Palpatine really wants them to succeed, he should make sure that they know what they're up against. He can let them know without them knowing it was him, easily.

    And lastly, Zam's shapeshifting: I said standard human face, not "only". That's beside the point, however. She may not need to conceal her appearance like that, but it seems to me as though she likes pretending that she needs to. Maybe it's a way to double-fool her enemies, I don't know. It's just strange behavior. No big deal.





    Jango - he knows some things
    /LM
     
  7. JimRaynor55

    JimRaynor55 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2005
    I already provided some reasoning. Maybe her forms are limited or take effort to master. Maybe she simply wants to look like a regular human who would need to wear a veil.

    Attack someone else, leave more evidence at the scene, and spend time changing your clothes? All while the Jedi are pursuing you? That's not a good idea either, and I'm sure you'd be picking it apart if that's what the movie actually did.

    Again, you're picking apart the minutia of a minor villain. I don't care if she wore a veil, that has no effect on the movie at all. Maybe she likes the veil! It's her favorite accessory or something. Yeah, that's the explanation I'm going to use from now on. Might as well ask why random henchman wears a hat or cape. Or why the Empire, or Jabba, acted so stupidly throughout the original trilogy.

    Look at what you're doing here. I pointed out RLM's unfounded assumption, and you responded by simply restating the assumption.

    And I like how you cherry pick the Imperial Probe Droid. R2-D2, C-3PO, the various worker droids, and and the Trade Federation's battle droids never displayed self destruct devices.

    Droids tend to do stupid things in Star Wars. Many droids are sentient and look out for their own survival. And again, there is nothing to support this suggestion that the thing might have had a self destruct device. Most military hardware in real life do not contain self-destruct bombs. This is a droid built to fly and carry things.

    Security cameras being watched by guards in some other room wouldn't do anything in that situation either.

    And what do you have to say about Anakin, who detected it in time as he was supposed to?

    We see the droid projecting some kind of counter forcefield against the window, which it has to maintain the entire time to keep open. The second the droid stops and decides to escape, the green rectangle disappears. There is no indication that this is a mere "alarm beam." Alarms work on the principle that their beams get interrupted, and interrupting the energy was exactly what the droid did. Also, you make an unsupported assertion that the shield must be "spherical," even though we see flat shields all the time.

    And on the shields, we see examples of SW shielding with selective properties. Gungan shields hold water out but don't do anything against humans swi
     
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  8. JimRaynor55

    JimRaynor55 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2005
    Man, ANH was the worst movie ever. Why do the Stormtroopers have to pile in through that small hole and die? Why don't they just throw a bomb in there, or pump in some gas? How do these supposedly elite troops die by the dozens against a teenage farmboy? Why do they even bother wearing armor if they die in one shot anyway?

    Why does Vader leave Tatooine before the job is done, leaving the search to a small team of these useless Stormtroopers? Why doesn't he use his Force powers to help out in the search? Why didn't he sense Obi-Wan, who was on the same planet? Even though he sensed people from further away in the other movies? Why didn't the Empire just blockade Tatooine with more than two ships, and send down a big army to search every farm and town on the planet?

    Han boasts about how he knows "a few maneuvers" when he's being chased by the Star Destroyers. Apparently, his favorite maneuver is "fly in a straight line while being shot at."

    So the same exact suspect ship that escaped from Tatooine is later captured by the Death Star. But Vader doesn't even bother checking in on it. No, they send an unarmed "scanning crew" in there, lugging a heavy box of crap. Which they strangely don't need every other time something needs to be scanned. The stupid scanning crew and the few Stormtroopers in the area get taken out, without anybody checking in on them.

    How do the good guys just escape down a garbage chute? Why didn't any of the stormtroopers throw a grenade down that chute? How did the good guys even get out of that chute, and why weren't there any Stormtroopers waiting for them when they did that?

    Are Tarkin and Vader on drugs or something? Who LETS the good guys just escape like that? Way to make the entire battle on the Death Star pointless. And Leia even knows that they were let out, yet she flies to the main Rebel base anyway. Why didn't she fly somewhere else to offload the files, instead of putting every Rebel leader at risk and against a deadline like that? Over a weakness in the Death Star that they didn't even know existed. I guess she's an optimistic person?

    Apparently, the Empire buys its weapons from the lowest bidder. Four of their space fighters can't even seriously damage Han's "piece of junk" before it destroys all of them. Imagine four F-15s dying to some guy's civilian propeller plane.

    Why do the Rebels have to plug droids like R2 into their fighters? Why not just put a computer in that hole, and leave out all the unnecessary crap?

    Now I know that Tarkin's doing drugs. Who flat out refuses to defend against an attack, for no reason at all? Why does the Death Star have to fly around Yavin to get to the Rebels? Couldn't they fly in from the other side? Couldn't TIE fighters and Star Destroyers have covered those directions? Couldn't the Death Star just SHOOT Yavin?

    The Rebels are even more stupid. What is the reason for Leia, and all the other leaders, to stand around in the base instead of just escaping? It's not like they were really doing anything for the Rebel fighters. Why do the X-Wings need to fly down that narrow trench? Couldn't they fly straight at the hole, and shoot at it from the outside? And how does a fat guy named PORKINS become a fighter pilot?

    Vader, who's a great pilot as Obi-Wan said, apparently has trouble shooting X-Wings flying right in front of him. Whatever, he's beaten when Han magically reenters the battle. Of course he survived instead of crashing into the Death Star, so they could set up the sequel.

    ANH is a total worthless piece of crap. The story doesn't make sense at all. All the bad guys act like complete idiots, which is the movie's greatest flaw since bad guys in other movies never act stupidly. Star Wars was the end of real cinema, and the beginning of shallow, special-effects filled summer blockbusters. Back in the 50s and 60s, we had real movies with stories about real people. Not this weird stuff about laser swords and puppet aliens.
     
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  9. -NaTaLie-

    -NaTaLie- Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2001
    That's so true, no Star Wars movie is immune to plotholes and inconsistencies.
     
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  10. -NaTaLie-

    -NaTaLie- Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2001
    On Spaceships, not speeders.
     
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  11. Lars_Muul

    Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 2, 2000
    [face_laugh] JR55, you just ruined ANH for me! I'll never look on that movie the same way again.
    Excellent roast!





    Screw Star Wars
    /LM
     
  12. Nordom

    Nordom Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 1, 2004
    Is the droid Jango or Zams? She is the one who loads the bugs inside it. If the droid is Jangos then he gives her the bugs and she walks to his droid and puts the bugs inside. Jango seems rather lazy doesn't he?

    Given what we see a gun, bomb or gas would have killed Padme, the bugs failed. So if Jango knew the exact situation another weapon would be better. The one scenario where bugs would be better is if Padme's room was deeper in the building and the bugs had to crawl through the ventilation shafts. This would also make sense with Padme, she sleeps in a room without windows for better protection.
    Also how would Jango or Zam know that Padme would insist in sleeping in her own room and not somewhere else?
    She has already used a decoy once so doing it again would not be out of the question.

    In order to let Jango and Zam know about the Jedi, Palpatine has to contact Dooku, Dooku has to contact Jango and Jango would then tell Zam. And we see Jango and Zam talking and yet they never say anything about Jedi being involved. They could not have spoken earlier as Zam tells Jango about the failed bomb. Then Jango gives her the bugs and she leaves. No mention of Jedi and we never see them talking again. So we have no reason to assume that Zam knows about the Jedi.

    Unrelated issue, why did Zam shoot the droid instead of Obi-Wan? He is a much bigger target so he is easier to hit.

    Jango says he was recruited by a man called Tyrannus ON the moon of Bogden. So he gives both a name and a place where he was recruited. That indicates that they met. Jango already knows a lot. He knows about the clone army and he knows that Dooku is behind the seps and is making a droid army to attack the republic with.
    So he is more than just a pawn. He still does not know about Palpatine but he does know a lot.


    The issue is that if you give a power or special ability to a character but then the character does not use when it would be in their advantage it creates questions. Ex. say that you establish that a character can turn invisible but when this person has to hide he instead crawls under a bed. Why?
    Or a character is established as having the ability to create fire from nothing. Yet we always see him using matches or lighters and even having to run and find matches to start a fire. Again why?
    The Jedi mind trick is established and in Jedi Luke uses it to see Jabba and tries to use on Jabba but it fails. The use makes sense, get what he wants without a fight. But say that Luke just tried to talk and DIDN'T make use of this ability. Then you could ask why not.
    In this case the shape shifter thing was added in post but none of her actions were altered and given her power I think that some would have been different. Bottomline, why give someone a power if that power never comes into play?


    The Jedi already KNOWS she is i
     
  13. Nordom

    Nordom Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 1, 2004
    They also have rockets on those wheel droids and on those air ships the clones use. So any reason why they couldn't be put on speeders or fired by hand?

    Regards
    Nordom
     
  14. MrFantastic74

    MrFantastic74 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 2010
    What was the point of this? If you hate ANH, why not pos
     
  15. PiettsHat

    PiettsHat Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Jim doesn't hate ANH, he's simply showing how no film, even beloved classics, stand up to RLM's intense nitpicking. If you apply the same forms of dissection and criticism to the OT film, it also looks like a mess filled with holes in its narrative structure.

    Heck, personally, I've never figured out what Luke's plan was to rescue Han in ROTJ, but it's never taken away my enjoyment of the film.
     
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  16. Lars_Muul

    Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 2, 2000
    Nordom: You make a lot of assumptions. Jango said that he was recruited on one of the moons of Bogden, but he never, throughout the course of the movie, does anything that indicates knowledge of who Tyranus is. There is no need for him to know, so to let him know would only be foolish. Dooku is no fool - aside from the fact that he made business with Sidious in the first place.
    The most likely scenario is that Dooku disguised himself or by other means made sure that Jango wouldn't be able to identify him as Dooku.

    Regarding the bugs, I think that what you said about the bounty hunters not knowing about Padmé's choice of sleeping quarters is a key to this. The droid was likely equipped with a means to track her down - possibly something DNA related. Using the bugs, it would get to her no matter where she was. Good thinking! ;)

    BTW, I see two possible reasons for why Zam would hit the droid. Either she missed Obi-Wan or she wanted to destroy evidence, confident that the fall would kill Obi-Wan.





    Thinking is good
    /LM
     
  17. JimRaynor55

    JimRaynor55 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2005
    She did use it. She went from being a gray-skinned alien to a human woman who wears a veil. She used her powers to completely change her look. The veil adds another layer to the disguise (instead of her looking like a stupid human woman who doesn't bother covering her face), and it doesn't hurt her any. I'm done talking about this. Zam Wessel probably thinks the veil is stylish and cool. There's nothing more that needs to be said about it.

    Your suggestion is that she spend time knocking someone out and stealing their clothes, without being caught in the act. That's more time consuming than what actually happened in the movie, which was "see Jedi with his back turned, and try to take a shot." The assassin was completely outmatched withot any ideal options. You're suggesting an even worse one which I'm sure you'd be complaining about if it hadn't been your idea.

    What case? You aren't putting up any kind of logical argument here. ONE droid (two decades in the future in an entirely different movie) has a self-destruct bomb, so now it's reasonable to assume that every droid has it?

    People make decisions based on what they know to be true, or what they know to be probably true. That ONE probe droid is the exception, the anomaly here. Reasonable people don't work on a self-defeating philosophy of overestimating the enemy's capabilities at every turn, and not even TRYING to catch them.

    There's been more than one suicide bomber in the Middle East. Going by that logic, US troops should never take prisoners. Just shoot any suspected terrorist and then blow up the entire area around them to be safe. That's in line with the kind of nonsense that you're pushing here.

    I read an article a while back about a policeman who was shot to death after pulling over a guy speeding on a road. Should cops assume that every speeder is a murderer? Hey, I have ONE example!

    Sure, cameras could be pointed at the windows. That's a decent point. But Padme was not being safe. Padme was deliberately trying to draw an assassin.

     
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  18. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    In the comic Jango Fett: Open Seasons, Dooku didn't disguise himself.

    [image=http://www.nukecd.com/cayce/mandcomix/Jango_Fett--Open_Seasons/Jango%20Fett%20-%20Open%20Seasons%204/blz22.jpg]

    If there's one thing in ANH that really does seem problematic to me in a plothole sense, it's the fact that on the way to Yavin the heroes know they're being tracked but they don't change ships. What the hell? ( Of course, the OOU reason is to give us the urgency of the Death Star battle. )
     
  19. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
     
  20. MrFantastic74

    MrFantastic74 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 2010
    I know Jimmy was just being facetious, and trying to mimic what RLM would have said about ANH back in the 70s. But to use an old cliché, it's like comparing apples and oranges. The movies were released at very different times and shown to very different audiences.

    Star Wars was released in 1977 as an homage to the pulp science fiction and adventure serials of the early to mid-20th Century. The people of the day didn't have 300 channels on TV or PVRs or VCRs or the internet, so going to the movies was a big deal. The film was shown to an audience that had never seen anything quite like it in the theater before. It was something brand new: "Space Fantasy", so different from the campy sci-fi that they had been exposed to before. A true landmark film, the main purpose of Star Wars was to provide popcorn adventure to the masses. It was not intended to be an intellectually deep movie.

    Attack of the Clones was released in the beginning of the 21st Century, a very different time altogether. By 2002, film goers had already seen it all, and had grown to be more critical, cynical, and discerning. They didn't want simple popcorn entertainment anymore; they wanted their movies to be more profound and have very few to no plot holes. With so much exposure to films on their 300 TV channels and on the internet, the audience no longer wanted to plop down their hard earned money in the theater unless the movie met their high expectations. Essentially, they wanted a movie of the caliber of Gladiator or Saving Private Ryan, but it had to be set in the familiar Star Wars galaxy and feel like a Star Wars movie.

    The challenge for Lucas and company was to create another Star Wars movie that captured the same level of excitement, familiarity and charm of the original, but that also carried something deeper to please the tastes of the new audience of the day. Whether you believe AotC was a success is up to you.

    It is now 2012, and when I see people posting gripes about a landmark film from the 1970s that spawned an entire franchise, complaining about it's plot holes and cheesiness, I just shake my head and move on. Without ANH, there would be no prequels. Period.

     
  21. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Just to be pedantic, it's what Mikey could have said about ANH back in the 70s, not what he would have said. Because ANH was popular in the 70s, Mikey wouldn't have dared to say anything negative about it.

    And suddenly you're invested in discussing times and audiences, not the content of the films. Raynor is comparing the content of ANH with the content of TPM. He's not the one with the "apples and oranges" problem.

    But you said you knew he was "just being facetious". So it seems that alleged knowledge didn't even last for the length of one post.

    Fixed.
     
  22. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    They're also constituent parts to an over-arching storyline; or saga.

    In other words, DON'T BASH ANH!

    But why not? What truly elevates it beyond fault or foible?

    In other words, *DO* BASH AOTC!

    Is it the fault of the film for being consistent with a pre-existing grammar and style?

    * * *

    Everything you just wrote there -- while, perhaps, an honourable attempt to square the circle, in some ways -- is bantha poodoo.

    A lot of people have no problem at all accepting a myriad of faults and problems in other movies: e.g., the J.J. Abrams' "Star Trek" movie of 2009. The same example proves they don't necessarily want sophisticated blockbuster movie-making, either.

    On the other hand -- so, maybe not all bantha poodoo -- there is something to be said for people elevating stuff like the LOTR movies and "The Dark Knight" above the PT; and latching onto the inherent "serious", "mature", "sophisticated", "complex", "adult", "realistic" qualities of both.

    But it ain't the fault of AOTC for being what it is. And the people that go in for the RLM material tend to be geeks and hardcore OT fans to begin with; a fanatical bunch of people who get bent out of shape when another fan says they like the PT, never mind prefers it to the OT, or dares to say anything remotely critical about the sainted original (or TESB). There was once a thread on here that caused a firestorm, in the CT forum, and it was nothing more offensive than asking, "Is ANH... meh?" Compare that to the staggering contempt heaped on the prequels (and their fans) for years -- a contempt that is on-going -- and I hope you can begin to appreciate that there is a lack of fairness and proportionality here.

    Just the fact that the RLM material makes so many comparisons to the original films is suggestive. Rather than critiquing the prequels on their own terms, Plinkett/Stoklasa is forever hinting that they're simply NOT the OT, and he sometimes makes this ideological bias explicit. This, again, is preaching to the choir.

     
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  23. MrFantastic74

    MrFantastic74 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Arawn, you have once again proven to me that you are the most irritating person on these forums. I'll respond to your post here, but I'm ignoring anything else you decide to throw my way in the interest of not starting a fight.

    If you bothered to acknowledge the remainder of my post, you would have seen that I believe the audience of the times demands more of the content of the films.

    Now you`re just being a dispenser for female hygienic rinse products.

    You can paint me as a so-called RLM worshiper all you want, but as I have tried to explain to you umpteen times now, I don`t fit the bill. I think he raised some good arguments and his reviews are entertaining, but I`m not a crazed cultist. I couldn`t care less if he`s `proven wrong`. I have a feeling you`re the one obsessed with Stoklasa.
     
  24. MrFantastic74

    MrFantastic74 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Fair enough, Cryo, but for the record, I was not bashing AotC. Not directly, anyway. ;)
     
  25. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    And the original point regarding the films was about their content. Check out the thread title if you don't believe me. Generally, when someone reviews a film, they intend to review the content of the film, not the audience of the film. You're the only one interested in changing the topic and discussing the audience, because you see that Stoklasa's position on the content of the PT is looking more and more ridiculous.

    Now you're just resorting to personal attacks and name-calling when challenged. Typical basher behavior. =D=

    False protestations of piety don't impress me. Wait for it...

    And you continue to think that, even though the so-called "good arguments" have been revealed as shallow nonsense. So you don't really care about the truth of the situation, and will continue to blindly insist that the arguments are good no matter what happens. Remind you of anything?
     
    Andy Wylde likes this.
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