Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Films and Television' started by TheBoogieMan, May 30, 2006.
But he had to die on the bridge!
Wrath of Khan
Search for Spock
Just watch the 2nd one. Really.
Just the second one.
You don't need any more, and nothing since is worth worrying about unless you're a totally into it treckie--the kind that wears pointy prosthetic ears all day and sends his/her kids to school in ST uniforms.
Ignore this grinch. Watch them all and make up your own mind.
Although the best TNG film in the bunch IMO is First Contact.
The best Original Cast film was Wrath of Khan. The best TNG film was First Contact.
Between the two, I'd say Wrath of Khan was the better film. But not by a whole lot.
I whole-heartedly resemble and approve those comments.
If you aren't prepared to watch them all & make up your own mind, however, stick with the 2nd one.
I still get a giggle out of the story of the woman who went to watch Trek 2 every night when it was originally in the theaters only to walk out as soon as Kirk got down to engineering so she wouldn't have to watch that scene.
I shudder to think about the emotional damage done by the parents who did force their children to dress in Trek uniforms when they went to school. (Yes, if you haven't seen the movie "Trekkies", there actually are parents who did that.)
Figured this would be a better thread than the TOS one to post my ST film reviews since I've arrived at them in my viewing project.
Star Trek: The Motion Picture: The Director's Edition
After an eighteen-month refit process, the Starship Enterprise is ready to explore the galaxy once again. But when a huge, invincible cloud approaches Earth, Admiral James T. Kirk must assume command of his old ship in order to stop it.
T2Q Comments: The intro to the movie with the 3 minutes of just space I could have done without. Interesting setup with the Klingons and threat to Earth. New uniforms are awful. The parade of the refitted Enterprise is the highlight of this film, IMO- good sense of scale, and the expanded shuttlebay design seems practical and logical. Uhura spottin a nice 70's doo, and nice nods to the original series with Decker's name, as well as appearnces by Rand (though she's probably aged worst of everyone) and, later, Chapel.
The transporter malfunctions is appropriately disturbing/gruesome (and surprising, given the original G rating of this movie prior to it's video rereleases). Enjoyed Bones' introduction too ("Probab'y redesigned the whole medlab too- I know Engineers- they LOVE to change things!"). The whole wormhole sequence is generally pointless and really, really annoying- the slow-mo exposes the bald chick's actually bouncing herself in the chair, looks really bad.
Why do they not try to EVADE V'Ger's attacks? Starfleet trooper costumes really, really bad, with the helemts that look like flattened footballs squashed around their heads.
"Any show of resistance would be futile"- amusing comment from Spock given the suggested connections between V'Ger and the Borg.
Whole entering V'Ger sequence really has a deep-sea exploration vibe to it, come to think of it, but really goes on for waaaay too long, lots of neat FX, but nothing really happening. Another good sense of scale with the shot of them standing out on the saucer (gotta pay attention or the saucer emergence distracts from the formation of the bridge to it).
Up until they enter V'Ger the movie's really not that bad, but once the bald chick shows up as the probe, the pacing and stuff kinda goes downhill quickly.
The V'ger/Voyager twist is neat, though a bit repetitive if you've seen The Changeling episode of TOS (some have referred to this movie as "Where Nomad Has Gone Before"); and I gotta wonder- is the blue deflector on the Refit because of V'Ger? Cause it's never blue until they emerge from the V'Decker birth explosion.
Overall, not as bad as I had recalled (it's not quite "The Motionless Picture"), but could have used about 20 mins trimmed from runtime. Drop the stuff with Spock on Vulcan and just have his entrance be as surprising to the viewer as it is to the crew, eliminate the whole first attempt at warp/wormhole sequence, the 3 min of empty space, shrink the voyage into V'Ger, etc. In fact, I smell a Quest's Qut coming on...
While a good crew reunion movie (though Rand and Chapel vanish for the most part after this point), it still has pacing issues and not much in the way of action. Not quite as relentlessly boring in pace as, say, 2001, but it's part way there.
If the supposed Borg connection was one day made more concrete (outside of a video game), I might consider this "potentially essential", but despite it being the introduction of the refitted Enterprise (my favorite Star Trek ship design, I must admit- so long as the deflector's glowing blue ), it's just not enough at this point to warrant a true reccomendation for anyone but the real Trek fan (I refrain from saying "hardcore Trek fan" if only bcause that dubious distinction must be kept in reserve to anyone willingly submitting themselves to the fifth movie- for purposes other than this thread ). I think this film would ultimately be labeled "average", but only average for Star Trek, not average for movies in general.
Also must make a special mention of Goldsmith's amazing score.
The three minutes of space is, I assume, an overture.
Is it actually in space (stars, etc) now? In the original cut, it was a totally black screen. Just Goldsmith's theme played and then WHAMO, you got the Main theme and "Paramount Pictures" in that wussy powder blue. At least with a starfield. there's something to look at.
Yeah, it's an overture, but I'm just not a fan of them. 3 minutes is too long- I'd say anything over 30 seconds would be. If people were to see it in theaters today, they'd probably think the projector was broken
And yeah, there's some stars/space in the Director's Cut (haven't seen the original cut so I cant comment beyond that).
I've always thought that overtures were created for the big premiere a film might have, and that it was a signal for everybody to take their seats and to give a few more minutes for the ushers to seat last minutes arrivals.
Perhaps, but in a home video or mass market release, it's unneccesary, since at home you know when it'll start since it's a time of your choosing, and in theaters they actually have their "feature presentation" announcements as a cue.
True, overtures and intermission are not needed for home viewing but films with built-in intermissions do made it easy to split the movie between two video tapes or DVDs. I think that's one reason why they don't edit them out. The best opition would be to take the overture/intermission out but give the viewer the choice to reinsert them back in via branching technology.
Anyway getting back to Star Trek I have seen the last two films but haven't posted my reviews yet. I'll try to get them up as soon as possible.
My rankings of the Star Trek films:
1. II: The Wrath of Khan
2. VI: The Undiscovered Country
3. III: The Search for Spock
4. X: Nemesis
5. VII: Generations
6. IV: The Voyage Home
7. The Motion Picture
8. IX: Insurrection
9. V: The Final Frontier
10. VIII: First Contact
You don't like First Contact? Blasphemy!
The fact that he rated IX, V and I higher is just an insult to all Trekkies IMO.
Now, now, I'm sure he has his reasons...and First Contact can be extremely clunky at times.
If anything, it proves just how broad the disparity is in reference to Star Trek films...
THEY ALL CAN BE SEEN AS JUNK!
star trek film rankings
1. II Wrath of Kahn
2. VIII First Contact
3. VI Undiscovered Country
4. IV The Voyage home
5. V The Final Frontier
6. VII Generations
7. III The search for Spock
8. IX Insurrection
9. X Nemesis
10. I The motion picture
No insult intended! I just find First Contact very cheesy and goofy, poorly made and lacking verissimilitude. It comes across like an especially silly episode of TNG. Insurrection, on the other hand, has a meatier story IMO; anything to do with Data I personally find very intriguing. As to Final Frontier, I agree it's awful, but at least it has Kirk, Bones and Spock in it -- which for a child of the 70s such as myself makes it preferable to an equally bad NG film. This is purely subjective opinion from a sci-fi/fantasy fan who is not a trekkie.
I tend to feel that Insurrection had meatier story potential that was unfortunately served frozen in a handy franchise-killing portion
You know what the worst part of all the films after Generations is?
It's the Enterprise.
They never take an opportunity to really explore anything that might be unique or new when it comes to the new ship...it might as well be any of the dozens of ships in the fleet...the decks, the holodecks, etc...none of this is unusual anymore...The Enterprises always had something unique about them.
As such...the E is cold and unlikeable ship beyond it's basic aesthetics...it's obvious from First Contact through Nemesis that the creative teams were more convinced the series' focus was with the characters, not the ship...ala the original cast films and the success of Voyage Home.
Except the TNG crew were never as beloved as the Original crew...even if the show they were on was. Picard/Data can't hold a candle to Kirk/Spock...and I say this being a hater of the TOS. As a result, the TNG movies needed those aspects of wonder in the films...instead we got some cheese action and an alien home ship which, honestly, no body cares about, despite Patrick Stewart's best efforts to make you think Picard loved E as much as D.
Anyone else think the E is reason #1 they felt they could move Riker to his own boat? Losing the D was like losing a crew member...and the E has been an empty shell replacement.
I truly hope with this new film, Abrams takes this into account and make the reinvented (as I'm sure it will be) Enterprise and integral "character" in the tale...not just a setting.
Well spoken, Sir!
The TNG films would have been slightly better served with the D throughout the films. If they wanted to scrap it they could have done that at the end of Nemesis, as a result of the Reman battle; "Damaged beyond repair". So the film ends with a sleek new ship and Picard walking to his new bridge and there you go. Anyway, here is my list
1) Wrath of Khan
2) Undiscovered Country
3) Search for Spock
4) The Motion Picture
5) First Contact
7) The Voyage Home
10) The Final Frontier
Didn't they torpedo the D because they wanted the stage space for Voyager sets...and thus why the E is basically reused Voyager sets?
It was a decision of production efficiency...not serving the story.
I really liked the E- it was posed as the biggest in the new design direction for Starfleet ships (going fron the oval saucers to the more arrow-headed ones), meant to standup to threats like the Borg and the Nemesis. It's "difference", though not outright stated, was in the punch that it packed.
Don't get me wrong- losing the D in Generations was like losing a main character, but the E is just a much better looking ship all around, more warship, less sea-creature-meets-50s-war-of-the-worlds in appearance.
And the reason they killed the D in Generations was pretty much because the producers were inspired by some image in a Trek reference book of a saucer crash landing and wanted to include it in the movie. Though I'm sure they subsequently considered the shared sets situation, since they had been doing that with the TNG and TOS movie sets for years already (it's why the Enterprise-A bridge changes so much between 4, 5 & 6).
Don't get me wrong...as i originally posted, the ship had aesthetic appeal. It's sharp.
But that doesn't change that it's soulless.
It would be like trading in a car you loved and drove to death for a flashy hotrod...definitely an upgrade...but until you've broken it in, it won't feel like your car (and more over, if you break in a hotrod, you're nuts)
The E just never had that "whatever it is" that made losing the 01 and the D so sad in their films. They blow up the E, I wouldn't even blink...I half expected them to blow it up in Nemesis. I might actually have been disappointed they didn't. Of course I haven't seen nemesis since it was in theaters. What year did that drop? 02?