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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Full Series Reconciling "The Last of the Jedi" with Rebels

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Completed Shows' started by Grendelspyce, Mar 3, 2015.

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  1. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2014
    My question is since when did Filoni have a bust of Cad Bane, and where can I get one? :p

    Also Darth Saxman no one is going to be perfect and I would much rather have a fan of Star Wars work on it then someone who was not.

    And it's not like JJ or anyone who is working on Starwars right now are not superfans.

    And if there are Jedi post ROTJ it's more the LSG's fault then Filoni's.
     
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  2. Darth Saxman

    Darth Saxman Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2012
    http://www.starwars.com/news/interview-dave-filoni-on-star-wars-rebels-part-2

    This interview confirms that from Filoni and Kinberg's perspective (*cough* ret-conning *cough*), Yoda is indeed actually communicating with Kanan and Ezra in the Lothal temple and it is not just some remnant essence of the Force that Yoda left behind. Here is what [baloney] Filoni said:

    "
    StarWars.com: Can you talk about the Lothal Jedi Temple and adding to the mythology in that way?
    Dave Filoni: We wanted Ezra to earn his lightsaber, and because we’d told a similar story on Ilum, we really didn’t want to repeat what we had done. So, we had a good debate about whether or not there would be a temple on Lothal. We thought, like we knew many fans would, “Well, that’s pretty convenient.” But we started to play with the idea of maybe there’s a reason this kid is so adept at using the Force and connecting to his planet. Maybe there was a temple there? If we tell a good enough story, then the coincidence is accepted.
    I liked these big stones that Ralph [McQuarrie] had designed, and I thought, what if it corkscrewed up and the temple door was revealed in the ground? Everybody liked that idea. Interestingly enough, the interior of the temple is the old recycled Ilum hallways. We just took the ice and we painted it to look like stone, but that gave some symmetry between the two temples. We liked this sense of discovery, and that it was an older Jedi Temple. It was probably abandoned thousands of years ago. But because it’s a focused place of the Force, we thought that made it possible for Yoda to look into the Force and see things there. I imagine what Yoda would be looking at is a galaxy filled with stars. That represents the light side and the dark side. The light side is just a flicker — a few stars out there. When Yoda says to Kanan, “See you I can. Before I could not,” he can see Kanan in the Force now. He can see that little light out there and he wants to know why. Because they’re in this temple, he can project his voice and talk to him there. This is a pretty overwhelming moment for Kanan.
    We know Yoda is trying to counter Palpatine in some way, though he’s not actively fighting in the rebellion. He’s trying to advise Kanan, because Yoda’s kind and he’s curious about this this kid Ezra and why Kanan is training him. This is what Yoda has always done. He is a mentor and a teacher. Ezra represents a new student, so he wants to understand why this kid wants to use the Force. Does he want to use it for himself? Does he want to use it in some aggressive way? Ezra says the key thing — he wants to use it to protect people. He wants to use it to protect his friends and his family. He wants to use it because it makes him feel alive to be a part of a group of people. Connected. Then it’s like, “Okay, well, you can have this saber crystal now. Now we’ll see what you do with it.”

    IMO, it is beyond ridiculous to have Yoda actively involved in any affairs outside of Dagobah before Luke goes to him in ESB. It just diminishes ESB and Luke's meeting with him so much. It is so much more powerful to have the great and wise Yoda forced into hiding on a remote swamp planet, completely out of the picture until Luke is able to find him.

    Even if Kanan and Ezra die (unlikely that both of them will), how would Yoda know? He had a connection to them in the Lothal temple, but it would take a lot of goofy explaining to come up with how he would know that they perished (unless it happened in that temple), so that there is no conflict with when he tells Luke that he is the last of the Jedi.

    It is silly situations like this, that seem to be done either with little care for existing canon and/or to offer lame "fan service", that Filoni and Kinberg have been notorious for. I will continue to rail against them on regarding things like this and emphasize as often as possible that Star Wars really needs some fresh creative leadership on the animation/TV series front. JJ Abrams isn't doing every Star Wars movie..............why should Dave Filoni and Simon Kinberg get to do every canon Star Wars animated series?
     
  3. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2014
    No Filoni should not be in charge of every Starwars show if he is bad at it which to a majority of people he is not.

    So as long as Filoni does not screw up Royal I think he will be in with Starwars a long time.

    As for Yoda speaking to Ezra and Kanan, he might not consider them true Jedi by ROTJ
     
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  4. TheOneX_Eleazar

    TheOneX_Eleazar Jedi Knight star 4

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    Oct 24, 2013
    I have no problem with what they do there. It is shown many times in the movies that Yoda, Obi-Wan, and Palpatine are able to sense things happening half a galaxy away. There is nothing here that would be out of place based on what we have seen established by Lucas in the films. Add to that he has 15 more years to refine his force abilities even more while in isolation it really is one of the worst things you could point out as a criticism of Filoni.
     
  5. sarlaccsaurs-rex

    sarlaccsaurs-rex Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Darth Saxman Preach! Common sense is so refreshing around here sometimes.
     
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  6. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2014
    From a certain point of view. My friend
     
  7. Darth Saxman

    Darth Saxman Jedi Knight star 1

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    Nov 6, 2012
    Sorry, but the established ability of Force masters like ObiWan, Yoda, Palpatine etc. to sense distant events is totally different from this. This is Filoni saying that Yoda was in direct communication with Kanan in the present. The established canon enabled Obi-Wan to sense Alderaan's destruction and millions of voices crying out in terror, but he couldn't actually pinpoint exactly what had happened. Yoda taught Luke that through meditation, he could see possible future events (Han and Leia being tortured) ---- but it wasn't like he could directly talk with any of them in the present over on Cloud City.

    And JediKnightFett's explanation of "well, hmmm, maybe Yoda doesn't think of Kanan and Ezra as true Jedi when he tells Luke he is the last of the Jedi in ROTJ" is a poor excuse for a clear ret-conning over existing canon.

    Filoni's whole explanation about "absolutes" in the interview quote from the original post in this thread just reeks of ret-conning and the worst part is that he really doesn't seem to care. When he says "It's something that's come up", that is code for "red flags have been raised but we really don't care!". I'll repeat something from my post a few posts back:

    If it takes too much thought to explain or raises too many red flags regarding conflicting with prior canon, JUST DON'T GO THERE!!!!

    I want to print this sentence out and put it up in Filoni's and Kinberg's offices, bathroom stalls, and refrigerators.
     
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  8. TheSilentInfluence

    TheSilentInfluence Retired Manager star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 15, 2014
    Filoni hasn't done a bad job with Star Wars: The Clone Wars. Nor is he doing a bad job with Rebels. I'd rather have someone who loved Star Wars as a whole working on Star Wars shows then someone who doesn't and would have little knowledge on the process. Or not even love Star Wars at all.

    I can understand why people don't like him. But honestly he's not that awful of a guy or a bad director. He's made mistakes sure but all people make mistakes. And at least we're continuing to have more Star Wars. Plus with Rebels we are getting more fans being brought into the Star Wars universe.

    Also just a warning to everyone in this thread who's been talking. Disliking Filoni and what he does is fine but also keep in mind that any bashing of Filoni or Rebels will not be tolerated.
     
  9. jabberwalkie

    jabberwalkie Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 2, 2014
    And this reeks of assumptions (or already judged) that this is going to be horrible and wreck canon. So far, they have tip toed the line and not crossed it. Instead of blaming Filoni for pretty much everything, why not consider that these discussions with things that have come up go through story group too?

    Oh and hasn't Kinberg largely left Rebels to work on other things in the Star Wars franchise? So aren't you conflating things?
     
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  10. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    If you watch the behind the scenes features and panel discussions on TCW, you would understand very quickly have Filoni saved TCW from some very bad decisions by Lucas.

    Mortis showing two Sith Lords knowing the power of immortality is a prime example. It was Dave who spoke up first and understood it would have serious continuity problems.

    Plus, it's a miracle how he made the 'Force planet' work in the Yoda arc; Dave himself was very sceptical of the idea, but somehow manage to pull it off. George basically said "I want a planet purely made of the Force " - with no recommendations on how to do it.
     
  11. Jedi Master Scorpio

    Jedi Master Scorpio Star Wars Television star 5 Staff Member Manager

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    Oct 24, 2015
    Isn't Filoni writing Rebels based off of the ideas of the Lucas Story Group?
     
  12. sarlaccsaurs-rex

    sarlaccsaurs-rex Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2007
    [face_plain] Are criticism's still allowed?

    If not what is the point of critical thinking skills?
     
  13. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2014
    Criticism is allowed and always welcome but there is a difference between that and what Darth Saxman is saying which is a bunch of assumptions and no fact to back it up.
     
  14. Darth Saxman

    Darth Saxman Jedi Knight star 1

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    Nov 6, 2012
    Seriously --- do you even read/comprehend my posts?

    I am going into fine details from the canon OT to back up my opinion, and I am stating that things are my opinion when they are indeed just that.....unlike some on here, like even the moderator, who claimed a few posts back that "Filoni hasn't done a bad job with Star Wars: The Clone Wars. Nor is he doing a bad job with Rebels.". That in and of itself is an opinion ---- one that I very much disagree with.

    Jabberwalkie mentioned "And this reeks of assumptions (or already judged) that this is going to be horrible and wreck canon. So far, they have tip toed the line and not crossed it."

    IMO, they have crossed the line ---- that is why this thread exists and why we are discussing whether and how Yoda conversing with and guiding Jedi/Rebels years before the OT messes with the existing OT canon. They have not tiptoed it. They have shamelessly trampled on it and then had the audacity to quote a cheesy part of Episode III with "Well.....only Sith deal in absolutes!".........it is disrespectful to both the existing lore and to the fanbase at large.

    Regarding whether the Lucasfilm Story Group at large is responsible for most of these decisions.....in the interviews with Filoni, he makes it pretty clear that he has a great deal of creative freedom to shape the story ---- even the very premise of the show with Cowboy Jedis, artist Mandalorians etc. were from he, Kinberg and one other person throwing ideas off one another, and each episode goes through heavy-handed editing by him. I'm very confident that with the same Lucasfilm Story Group, but different leadership and creative team for animated Star Wars shows, we would get a much different aesthetic look and potentially much higher quality and better consistency in tone for the show, with potentially much better respect for Star Wars canon.
     
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  15. sarlaccsaurs-rex

    sarlaccsaurs-rex Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 10, 2007
    I honestly agree with Sax. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and he makes valid points.
     
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  16. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2014
    :D

    This only messes with the Canon when you take Yoda's word as the be all end all of everything which it is not and for all we know they are dead by ROTJ and then how would that be messing with Canon?

    And as you stated in the last paragraph I think the general viewer of Rebels thinks the Canon is doing fine and that rebels is only adding positively to it.

    Oh I understand that completely read my Sig.

    it’s absolutely within your right to like or dislike a film and form your own opinion.



    But that does not mean we can't talk about or different opinions.
     
  17. sarlaccsaurs-rex

    sarlaccsaurs-rex Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 10, 2007

    I know Fett, I'm just saying that is the case then we should let Sax talk.

    I love debating, and this place would be pretty boring if we spent 24/7 agreeing with each other.
     
  18. jabberwalkie

    jabberwalkie Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 2, 2014
    Interesting you bring up the quote if only for the irony of it. Since you're back and you want to play, what specific examples do you have to back up your opinion that they have retconned anything? Does anything explicitly contradict canon so far?
    I'm guessing you have also skipped the parts where Pablo Hidalgo also comments on his involvement on the process. I believe Filoni has also brought up his interaction on dealing with Pablo for story ideas.

    Talking and backing up a position with examples are two entirely different things. Please tell me you understand what the difference is between talking and debating.
     
  19. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2014
    Yes we are doing that but we are also debating.:p

    Sure I may have said assumption not based on fact, but you win some you lose some.
     
  20. Darth Saxman

    Darth Saxman Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2012
    Fett ---- using your sig to any of my psots in this thread is not constructive ---- show me where in this thread any active bullying or attacking is happening. I'm sharing my opinion, supporting it with facts from the OT, and you proceed to ignore those posts and just try to derail the train of thought of the thread by belittling my posts and claiming that active bullying is occurring. It is very weak discussion board etiquette..............
     
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  21. jabberwalkie

    jabberwalkie Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 2, 2014
    Do you know what attacking a position is? Because that what this is, attacking the argument, not the person.
     
  22. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2014
    No you miss read me then I meant this part of my sig.

    it’s absolutely within your right to like or dislike a film and form your own opinion.

    I have admitted to making a mistake by saying you were not factually.


    Anyway back to the discussion before we start arguing about board Etiquette.

    Yoda and Obi Wan have both said half truths many times so why would they not for Luke being the last jedi?

    They needed Luke to do it because he was the only jedi they new was still alive and he was the most powerful jedi alive.

    Did you see kana and Ezra vs Vader? It showed that they could never be anywhere near vader.
     
  23. Darth Saxman

    Darth Saxman Jedi Knight star 1

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    Nov 6, 2012
    LOL --- so the "attacking" being referenced in Fett's sig deals with attacking an argument..............right.................so attacking an argument is akin to bullying, from yours and Fett's POV..................right....................I'm sure that's what the original meaning of the sig was..................
     
  24. sarlaccsaurs-rex

    sarlaccsaurs-rex Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 10, 2007
    Was that necessary Jabber?
     
  25. jabberwalkie

    jabberwalkie Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 2, 2014
    Ahem:

    Not sure, did it get the point across about knowing the difference?
     
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