BTS Reconstructing the Backstories

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn, Jun 4, 2011.

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  1. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn The Other Saga Moderator

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    "I'm glad you're here to tell us these things," because credulous chap I am, I never noticed the disparity with the timeline of developing "saga" stories with the ESB plot. Though it did seem suspicious that nothing was ever dated.
  2. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

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    FWIW, I don't mean to discredit JW Rinzler, it's quite possible he's on a very tight editorial leash, & the discrepancies are quite subtle. You also have to wonder what GL is keeping 'hidden'.

    If you've got these big, prestige books being put together by someone who's obviously incredibly thorough when it comes to researching decades-old scraps of paper, why isn't he making constant references to the legendary ringbinders that have been sitting on the shelf of GL's office in Skywalker Ranch for thirty years?
    "But George, what's in that one marked EsP WII-IX(9)? Is that a spelling error?"
    "Nothing. I can spell."
    "Are they the other..."
    "These are mine. MINE. Help you not."
  3. TOSCHESTATION Force Ghost

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    Jan 17, 2003
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    ^^^

    :p
  4. 13thsithlord Jedi Grand Master

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    nub posted
    1 don't think so, too much of it is contradictory when it comes to just who the 'clones' themselves were. Putting aside just who knew what & how much might have been made up by people other than GL, there's only three sources that are even close to being specific:

    1. Star Wars Poster Monthly #4 (1978) - the stormtroopers are clones;
    2. The Empire Strikes Back, first draft by Leigh Brackett - Baron Lando Kadar is the leader of a peaceful community which includes what remains of his family - clone refugees;
    3. ESB novelisation (1979/1980) - Boba Fett's armour is the same as that of a group of evil warriors defeated by the Jedi during The Clone Wars - I believe the implication is that these 'evil warriors' (later Mandalorians) were the very clones the wars refer to.

    I'd have to look into sources & dates, but it was also mentioned around the time of ESB & (I think) prior to its release that Fett's armour was that of Imperial Shocktroopers/Supertroopers, which would directly contradict point #3. Despite many changes over the years, it's always been the case that the Republic & the Empire were the same. If the Jedi fought a group of evil warriors during the Clone Wars, they weren't Imperials, particularly if they were defeated.

    The Lando Kadar connection in the Brackett draft is the real odd one out, as the clones seem to be simply a type of culture/race/species, not the army of organic robot warriors of all the other conceptions. All Brackett's idea? Put it alongside the ghost of Luke's father in the "we don't know" bin.

    Throw GL's comments about Stormtroopers in 1977 & the White Legions from SW Draft 3 into the mix & you've got an ugly mess that doesn't make a whole heap of sense if you try to deduce anything from it when it comes to this mysterious, galaxy-wide conflagration. I honestly don't believe GL had the Clone Wars thought through at all back then, largely because he probably intended them to be even further back in time than 35BBY. Something to be referred to, not actually shown, even in the original version of the PT. The immediate effects of the Clone Wars would have been something that may have been dealt with, but it's not a given that the wars



    loving this thread

    i was only thinking about what my version of the pt would have been and i always imagined (thanks at in part to zahn) that the clone wars were just that. wars of clone armies created by aggressive clone masters fighting a prolonged war that battered the republic and (perhaps by intention) led to the emperors rise to power.
    anakin would be hardened thru war and perhaps never really know peace and as such would be vulnerable.

    things like fett wearing the armour i remeber from being a kid- and really there is no need for him to actually be a memeber of that group- wearing the father of his dead father for instance?

    lucas obviously changed his mind many times and im sure woudl again if he could . i prefer the idea of anakin falling slowly by degrees and conpromises fall more than the seemingly rapid switch of mind that occurs in rots.

    the ww1/republic/rise of the reich though could have worked well as the pt.

    did lucas choose droids as the pt villains because of child friendly deaths?

    i suspect it plaed a large part.

    the films never really discuss cloning - was there much in the drafts ?
  5. T-R- Chosen One

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    Aug 13, 2003
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    I would just like to point out that in the early versions of RotJ, Anakin/Vader wasn't redeemed at all, but was killed.
  6. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn The Other Saga Moderator

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    The only early version I could find online in a cursory search is the revised rough draft, which goes like this:

    So here it seems as though he is supposed to turn back, though it's not the big production it becomes later on.
  7. Obi-Ewan Force Ghost

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    Jan 24, 2000
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    I would just like to point out that in the early versions of RotJ, Anakin/Vader wasn't redeemed at all, but was killed.

    Yes, it had been done where Vader throws Palpatine into lava and falls in after him; where Luke and Obi-Wan only subsequently deduce that he must have turned back to the good side. Then in another, IIRC, he survives long enough to speak to Luke before dying, but his ghost doesn't appear at the end with Obi-Wan and Yoda. But somehow we're to believe that his ultimate redemption was the entire point of ROTJ or even of the entire original trilogy.
  8. T-R- Chosen One

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    that might be the earliest version online, but the earliest versions had Vader falling in the lava to leave Luke vs Emperor.
  9. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

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    I'm not sure if that made it to 'script' stage. Heaps of different idea were tossed around, including Luke 'joining' the Emperor, Palps ordering him to blow up Endor, then Luke turning the Death Star on the Imperial Fleet instead. That might have been where Luke then took Vader's mask for himself & declared himself Emperor.

    There's also the stuff Gary Kurtz mentioned - Han being killed in a raid on an Imperial bunker, Leia crowned Queen of the remaining Alderaanians, Luke wandering off on his own at the end like a lone samurai or gunfighter.

    Just how many of these ideas found their way into actual treatments or screenplays of ROTJ I don't know (probably none of the ones Kurtz mentioned would have, I suspect they date back to before ESB was even being shot). More stuff to hope is revealed in Rinzler's book on ROTJ.


    Basically nothing. There's clones, there were Clone Wars, that's about it. Brackett's draft of ESB elaborates a bit:

    191 INT CORRIDOR ? THE ORBITAL CITY ? NIGHT
    They all come into the corridor, they walk along the corridor. The doorway into the suite is identical with the one 3PO opened by mistake.
    LEIA
    Yes.
    LANDO
    And in a few days I?ll be able to find you passage out to the sector where you wished to go.
    HAN
    You see? I told you everything would work out.
    Leia can?t very well dispute this, yet she seems unconvinced. As they walk along the corridor, she watches Lando. He smiles.
    LANDO
    You?re wondering, Miss Eredith. You?re too polite to ask, but still you wonder. So I?ll tell you. Yes. I?m a clone. Of the Ashardi family. My great-grandfather wanted many sons and he produced them from the cells of his own body. His sister, a remarkable woman, produced many daughters by the same means. Thus we keep the blood pure. But since the wars, there are not many of us left, and we try not to attract attention.
    (a sadness comes into his voice, a remembering)
    It didn?t seem strange to us to see our own faces endlessly repeated in the streets of our cities. It gave us a sense of oneness, of belonging. I Now, when every face is new and different?I feel truly alone.
    They are approaching a large and imposing doorway, which is closed.
    LEIA
    I?m sorry, Baron Kadar. I didn?t mean to?
    He brushes her protestations aside with a light hand.
    LANDO
    No matter. Oh?I should tell you that we have a guest this evening. I believe you all know him.



    IMHO, the actual details about clones ("My great-grandfather wanted many sons and he produced them from the cells of his own body", everyone looking the same) are somewhat generic concepts that Brackett came up with.

    The Clone Wars aren't mentioned in the Star Wars scripts until Draft 3, & there's not much:

    LUKE
    Who are you anyway?
    BEN
    You might say I?m part of the landscape here. They call me Ben Kenobi.
    Luke is dumbstruck. Then with a combination of awe and excitement he finds his voice.
    LUKE
    You?re General Kenobi?!? The Jedi knight! The commander of the White Legions?
    BEN
    I?m afraid it?s been a long time since the White Legions roamed the stars. But I have the memories.
    Luke drops to his knees and bows before the old Jedi.
    LUKE
    I should have recognized you.
    The old man rubs his beard in wonder.
    BEN
    I don?t see why. I don?t believe we?ve ever met.
    LUKE
    I am the son of Annikin Starkiller.
    The scruffy old Jedi smiles at the kneeling boy.
    BEN
    I know who you are. Stand up so that we can talk properly. You?re embarrassing me. I?m not that important.
    LUKE
    But you are? I know your ?Diary of the Clone Wars? by heart. My father?
    A sudden thought crosses Luke?s mind and his enthusiasm turns to embarrassed silence.
    LUKE
    I? I?m not a Bendu Officer. I?m not even a startrooper.
    BEN
    I know that.
    LUKE
    You saw through me?
    BEN
    You could put it that way.
    LUKE
    I assure you my intentions weren?t bad.
    BEN
    I know your intentions. I probably
  10. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

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    Bumping this thread, will cut & paste some relevant stuff from the temp boards when I get some time (and looking at the temp boards stops logging me out of these ones).
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