PT Red Letter Media and other Prequel Reviews

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Obi-Wan McCartney, Feb 12, 2012.

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  1. Anakin_Darth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2005
    star 2
    Yes, but my point is that they cried for an "unaltered" version, and making it 1080p digital quality would go against their fanboy cries. Like I said, it's annoying hilarious to watch these people fall over themselves in contradiction.



    Oh! And another of RLM's fallacies - "The audience doesn't meet Anakin until 45 minutes into the movie"

    Uh, WRONG. He comes in at exactly 32 minutes, a mere 17 minutes more than we met Luke in ANH.

    Mod Edit: Calm down.
    Andy Wylde and sarlaccsaurs-rex like this.
  2. GeneralCeel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2005
    star 2
    But once again, why is this such a hot button issue for people who didn't like the movie in 1999... 13 years after the fact? Its like going on the worst date of your life, marrying her and then blaming somebody else because you are still unhappy a decade later.
  3. JimRaynor55 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2005
    star 3
    This is my point-by-point rebuttal to RLM's Episode I review:

    https://rapidshare.com/#!download|610|1735047526|Red_Letter_Media_s_Episode_I_Review_-_A_Study_in_Fanboy_Stupidity.pdf|1750

    Yes, the RLM review really is that poorly reasoned. But like any good propaganda, it doesn't have to be based on the facts.
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  4. Gallandro Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 4
    I'm not going to get into a lengthy debate over ground well covered in other threads that are related to the subject. But again that is ultimately a decision that is up to Lucas and the powers that be at Fox Home Video.

    And what exactly constitutes "reasonable treatment?" For years fans of "Miami Vice" were unable to even get the series on home video due to song licensing. There was a good chance that show never saw the light of day on the home market. Was it being suppressed?

    One of my favorite shows of all time "Life Goes On" finally got a DVD release of Season 1, the subsequent three seasons have never, and will likely never, see the light of day. Am I being unfairly suppressed? Do I have a "reasonable expectation" as a fan to get these subsequent seasons?? And since we are now in the age of HD don't I deserve these shows in glorious 1080p since that is now the "acceptable" format.

    No ultimately these are business decisions, and there are positives and negatives to weigh. Does the expenditure of a separate release of the OT warrant the time and money needed to invest on what will likely be a small return to satisfy a fairly small crowd? No one is unfairly suppressing your rights...


    Yancy
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  5. Gallandro Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 4
    QFT!!!


    Yancy
  6. Anakin_Darth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2005
    star 2
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  7. Gallandro Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 4
    Sorry GeneralCeel I stole that line for my sig.

    Yancy
  8. JimRaynor55 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2005
    star 3
    Wait, the original pre-SE trilogy was released on DVD? Is that true? I focus more on the movies' stories and themes than on "out of universe" things like that. All this time, one of the few things from the Lucas-detractors that I actually sympathized with was the supposed suppression of the originals. I don't have a problem with most of the changes in the Special Editions. But I believe that the originals should be preserved for historical reasons, as well as the clear demand from fans.

    So Evil Emperor Lucas actually did release those versions. Oh wait, looking at Wookieepedia right now, it says that the current controversy is that the "original" versions weren't remastered for greater quality (a bit ironic, though understandable). Judging from the ferocity of the online complaints, I had thought that they weren't available AT ALL. That evil Lucas had been engaging in a campaign to rewrite history or something.

    Another case of the internet blowing things out of proportion?
  9. TOSCHESTATION Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2003
    star 4
    Being that it was due solely to issues with song licensing, I would say no*. I had forgotten about that whole Miami Vice deal.

    *then again, how is it that American Graffiti was able to overcome that obstacle?

    As far as those other older tv shows that you mentioned, TV is one thing, but movies are another. Speaking for myself, I'd be fine with SW as a whole remaining as a purely cinematic experience, and not in the home market/media whatsoever (I believe that this was Lucas position back in the early 80's anyhow, but didn't FOX sort of 'force' him to release SW (1977) on home video back in '82?).


    I think the "fairly small crowd" point is debatable...nonetheless my point still stands, even with the considerations of "business decisions". Why were more "negatives weighed" (shall we say) than positive for SW, on this matter, compared to every other film franchise (where supposedly similar business considerations were also made)? Once you consider that, would it ever cross your mind, Yancy, for a minute that maybe with SW/Lucas this has little to do with business decisions, but has more to do with Lucas feeling that if he put the OOT out there on 'equal-footing', it would come at the expense of the SE's (which happen to be the versions that HE prefers)?



    What I and others (forthcoming) understand is that "original" in this context means = pre-SE alterations. You know this, as well. Anyhow, perhaps I can take what you say with a grain of salt, since your the same poster that says this with a straight face:


    to which I replied:

    "Are you SURE about that? ALL these people? LOL indeed."


    Or, quite simply, you're just trolling.



    Well, it looks like JimRaynor55 gets it, at least.


  10. Anakin_Darth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2005
    star 2

    Yes indeed, good sir. I have all three:


    http://freecodesource.com/movie-posters/B000FQJAJG--star-wars:-episode-v-the-empire-strikes-back-%281980-&-2004-versions,-widescreen-edition%29-movie-poster.html


    sarlaccsaurs-rex likes this.
  11. Gallandro Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 4
    Look ultimately I think we will get a release of the OOT (whatever that is at this point because there's debate there as well), but I think fans are better served writing actual letters (rather than email or signing online petitions), explaining what they want on a future release. But the strategy that some have adopted of taking to message boards and social media of declaring Lucas a devil or a Nazi (I've seen that one), have likely only delayed the release of the OOT.

    Civilized discourse with the man and with Fox Home Video will get people a lot further than dragging Lucas through the mud and mocking and deriding the man.


    Yancy
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  12. _Catherine_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2007
    star 4
    I don't understand the need to condescend to those put off by Lucas's tampering. The OT are some of the few classic, important films not available to modern audiences in a modern, high-quality format when there is no real reason that that should be the case. Many other classic films from the 1970s have been cleaned and restored to the image quality of a fresh print on opening night, if not better, and beautifully presented in HD for modern audiences to enjoy. I'm not sure how thinking Star Wars deserves this same process makes someone a fanboy.
  13. Anakin_Darth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2005
    star 2


    Wrong again. Original, unless you wanna call up Oxford Dictionary and change the definition (LOL), means Preceding all others in time; first. taken from here: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/original


    The only ORIGINAL version of ANH is the 1977 version. Even then, it was altered to change Beru's voice, add a scene of Chewie scaring a mouse droid, and changing the soundtrack from Mono to Stereo.


    So, I'll say it once again, since it doesn't seem to sink in - To.Update.It.To.1080p.Would.Be.An.Alteration.Since.The.Original.Film.Was.Not.In.1080p.Hence.Ceasing.To.Be.The.Original.Versions.Fanboys.Are.Whining.For.


    Let me know if I have to reiterate something that I've already iterated. [face_laugh]
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  14. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Yes, the originals were not in 1080p. They were at a much higher resolution. However, if it were to be released, it had to be at 1080p because that's the best home video format we have. And yes, I too support their release, although what I expect the most nowadays is a consistent SE. There is an higher chance to get them than the OUT.
  15. GeneralCeel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2005
    star 2

    The irony is that Lucas was already tinkering in the 77's and the the early 80's. There were different audio mixes in theaters, depending on the capabilities of those theaters, and who knows what else. Who is to say what is original?

    I have a couple VHS versions laying around, the 2004 DVD box, the two disc versions with the "original versions" as bonus features, and the blu ray set. I'm a couple years too young to have been able catch the OT in the theater on its original run (though I did see the 97 release), but by all accounts Star Wars today looks and sounds technically superior to the day it was released. We Star Wars fans should consider ourselves lucky...

    ...imagine being the person whose favorite movie is out of print, won't ever come back to the big screen, and will not get the royal treatment on blu ray.

    I think the bottom line is that people just aren't happy unless they're miserable. If the original trilogy were to be released today on blu ray, cleaned up and in the desired proportions / aspect ratio.... many of the people begging for it would then complain because they have to pay for it.

    If these "perfect original versions" were to come out today, sure, I'd probably buy them for "historical purposes." Am I begging for them? Nope. There are a few "changes" made to the OT over the years that people complain about (you know which ones i'm talking about), but there are also others that, quite frankly, people no longer think about. The beauty of Cloud City, improved close ups of X-Wings in flight, etc...

    If we trickle this conversation down to the Prequels.... there were changes made between the time the physical prints were made, and when digital versions were sent out, and then once again before the films came to DVD....and again for Blu Ray.

    I'm sure that there are now more Star Wars fans who were born after the release of the OT, than there are those who saw the OT in theaters. Given enough years.... this debate should die, but then Lucas will be gone as well.

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  16. TOSCHESTATION Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2003
    star 4
    There...he sounds so much better now. :cool:



  17. _Catherine_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2007
    star 4
    I don't know why Plinkett would need to preface everything he says by reminding the viewer that it's just his opinion. He's the one reviewing the movie; who else's opinion would it be? Furthermore, the reviews aren't part of an interpersonal dialogue. They are an expression of the author's views, not a back-and-forth debate trying to convert a non-believer. Finally, the reviews are deliberately insulting and offensive for comedic purposes. Since the review is intentionally trying to offend you, there's nothing wrong with being offended by it. However, the rudeness of its approach doesn't make its larger points invalid. It does make people less likely to listen to those points, but the review was made to entertain, not to proselytize.
  18. Anakin_Darth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2005
    star 2


    Awww, what's the matter, can't take the truth? LOL. Oh, and good job not spelling your own name right LOL.

    The SE is the definitive version now, DEAL WITH IT. But thanks for putting me on ignore, shows that I got to you. Ahhhhhhh, victory!


    [face_laugh][face_laugh]
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  19. G-FETT Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    I've heard about these reviews, but I've never seen them. Frankly I've got better things to do with my time than watch an hour (or is it 2 hours?) long rant about a movie.

    He didn't like the Prequels, fair enough, but I've got no intention of wasting my life watching his videos.
  20. Anakin_Darth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2005
    star 2


    =D==D==D=


    Well said. Don't even bother, they're a waste of time, loaded with lies, fallacy, propaganda, and the oh-so-hilarious subplot of torturing a woman in a basement. :rolleyes:
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  21. TOSCHESTATION Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2003
    star 4
    Re: the original versions with Beru's voice before it was changed, Chewie growling at the mouse droid on the D.S., etc:


    THAT original version - with Beru's original voice, etc, - was in six-track Dolby Stereo (which was a bit of a rushed job, according to Ben Burt) and in 70mm, and not only that, THIS VERSION OF THE FILM NEVER WENT INTO GENERAL RELEASE . Only those who went to the 32 theaters of the initial run saw this version. The changes you're talking about were changes that were made AFTER the May 25th release date but BEFORE the general U.S. release period (June/July of '77) where it could be seen in pretty much every U.S. town or city. Oh, and the soundtrack was 'changed' from Stereo TO Mono, not the other way around. For general release, you had mostly the mono/35mm version, but there was the 4-track Stereo, 35 mm print. The later home video versions were from the 4-track stereo, until in the late 80's the 6-track version started being put on video releases. The point is, these were all the 'original versions, before the SE's, which had Greedo shooting first, and other changes made in the mid-90's


    As for the SE's being the "definitive versions" now - that's the whole point. It is thus with SW but not with any other film franchise you can name. There's been some disingenuous reasons put forth about why this is this case ("half-completed films when originally released, etc), but no actual argument against the original version(s) being given equal-footing for historical purposes at least. On that note, I tip my hat to those posters who have acknowledged the historical significance factor as a reason for preserving those films: JimRaynor55, Alexrd, and _Catherine_ (forgive me if I have forgotten any others).

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  22. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    This, and what Alexrd and Yancy said.

    And yes, I absolutely will discount the opinion of someone who can't make his argument without personally insulting people who dislike the prequels. I don't acknowledge my 4-year-old when he's having a tantrum over a lollipop, and I'm certainly not going to acknowledge a grown man behaving childishly over a set of films because he didn't get his way regarding what they should look like. Insulting people who disagree is not "black humor", it's childish behavior.

    And while people are entitled to dislike the prequels, anyone who is still ranting about them years later, particularly filming themselves ranting for 70 minutes, needs help.

    As someone already mentioned, RLM should just ignore the prequels and watch the OT if that's what he prefers.
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  23. JimRaynor55 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2005
    star 3
    That's the thing though: It's not presented as a mere subjective opinion on how the movie made him feel. I dealt with this right away at the beginning of my rebuttal essay. Pure opinions are safe territory. I really wouldn't care at all if he simply didn't like the movie. Some of my own friends didn't like the movie. Not an issue in and of itself.

    The problem with the RLM review, which too few people realize, is that the bulk of it is made up of criticisms based on logical grounds. He argues about how the plot supposedly doesn't make sense, or how the characters are acting stupidly. When fact checked, his arguments completely fall apart.

    I repeat: He claims that the Jedi had no grounds to ask the Gungans for help against the Trade Federation invasion, because there was no evidence that the Trade Federation had invaded. Seriously. I am not making that up. That's just one of numerous jaw dropping moments in his review, which the internet hatedom has glorified as the smartest and most insightful thing ever.

    It's too bad, but the hardcore Prequel/Lucas haters use it as exactly that. Something to completely shut down and derail discussion about the prequels. I've seen it numerous times: someone comes into a thread and contributes nothing other than saying that the prequels suck, along with a link to the RLM review. It's lazy, and has lowered the level of discussion in the fandom.

    I agree that the disgusting nature of the review is off putting, but shouldn't invalidate its arguments. Its arguments however, fall apart by themselves.
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  24. JimRaynor55 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2005
    star 3
    The argument over what was "original" that I see here is semantics. Both of you are talking past each other. Of course the true original-original trilogy would be the versions first released in 1977, 1980, and 1983. I understand that the fans who want the "original" versions are really asking for versions that are remastered for quality, but without the added CGI and music changes of the Special Editions.

    Let's come to an understanding here, instead of holding fast to extreme definitions.
  25. MandalorianDuchess Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2010
    star 3
    For all practical purposes, we could also agree that the "original" versions of the OT were also those that were originally released on home video, imho.

    If they can just take those versions and give 'em a proper blu-ray release, I'm sure Lucasfilm will easily make another $1 billion or so (worldwide).
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