PT Red Letter Media and other Prequel Reviews

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Obi-Wan McCartney, Feb 12, 2012.

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  1. sinkie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2004
    star 1
    I know you're probably being a bit cheeky but still, the backlash isn't "everybody else", it is supposedly a vocal minority. So you're sacrificing your honest impression coming from your own wants, likes and tastes for a principle that is somewhat questionable at best as a general rule and a false impression of who was against it?

    I'm pretty sure my first impression followed by years of soul searching and even trying to like them hard, has nothing to do with a bandwagon. And as I've said before, I've yet to meet all that many people who have issues because of a bandwagon. Many have very well thought out and concrete reasons for not liking them but still sticking around boards like these trying to figure things out and make their case. Maybe I've been lucky?

    As for the SEs (and their continuation in the recent blurry release) I saw quite a few people that I normally debated with on the awfulness/greatness of the SEs suddenly become overnight converts! Literally saying things like, "OMG, I think I get it now! That Noooo is just plain horrible!" Sure there were still quite a few defenders, but you could see the cracks in resolve starting to show. He may continue and he may push all but the newest of fans too far one day. Then again, maybe it is all over and the damage that has been done, in some people's estimation, is it.
  2. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    Well, my relationship with Episode I has grown mostly because of the way it compliments Episode III and the saga as a whole, but sometimes you have to sacrifice your impressions in order to change your mind. And sometimes you have to change your mind for the sake of fun. For me, obsessing over my perceived inconsistencies between the trilogies, or looking for the "problems" in the SE's, took the fun out of Star Wars. I think if you really have a problem with something, it's best to try re-evaluating your opinions before making a big to-do about it. The People vs. George Lucas is a big to-do. And I honestly think if people were more flexible with their opinions, they wouldn't be longing for the saga as it could have been, because they'd have had the eyes to see the saga as it is.

    If I hadn't tried disagreeing with the status quo (and Prequels Suck is certainly status quo in some circles), Episode III might not have moved me the same way, and I definitely wouldn't be the fan I am today.
    kainee likes this.
  3. ezekiel22x Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 4
    I don't even look at it from a perspective of defending an added no. Star Wars is not a stance.
  4. Mnhay27 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 1
    Speaking as somebody who has a diploma in popular and contemporary musics, I think that's the best argument for liking Jar Jar that I've ever heard!

    Your friend is a wise man. =D=
    Andy Wylde likes this.
  5. Samuel Vimes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 3
    I could be reading you the wrong way but are you saying that everyone that didn't like TPM is stupid?

    Opinions about movies are not set in stone, they can change, a movie that you didn't much like can change into one you do like. While another movie that you did like can get less good on subsequent viewing.
    For myself I found TPM rather average the first time I saw it. Some good bits and some bad bits. Afterwards I felt "well ok I guess."
    And no I only saw it once in theaters. When the VHS got released I rented that. Mostly the movie was the same, the bad bits were still as bad, possibly a bit worse, the good bits were still there. The DVD I later bought, mostly because of the special features.
    If anything EP II and III made one of my problems with TPM even worse, the time that could have been spent on other things. From a trilogy perspective Dooku should have been in TPM, Anakins and Obi-Wans friendship was not shown enough, the Anakin and Padme romance seemed rushed.
    RotS in particular felt rushed, a lot of stuff had to happen but if some things had been started in TPM and built upon in AotC then RotS might have had time to better develop some things.

    Bye for now.
    Old Stoneface
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  6. sinkie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2004
    star 1
    I can see this challenging of ones impressions and opinions as valid, in fact, I think anyone with solid impressions and opinions has already done this. But to assume those who maintain those impressions and opinions after challenging them is somehow duping themselves is false. As I said I challenged mine in a big way, watched the PT over and over, gaining some appreciation, for a while feeling I could get to like it, but then finally deciding it wasn't fun anymore, I had to overlook to much that didn't speak to me or would not stop standing out as "bad". I am now pretty confident in my ability to see SW as diplomatically as I can, as openly as I can, and know what I like, what speaks to me, better than I ever had completely regardless of what anyone else thinks. I may agree with some other opinions but only because they make sense to me and my evaluation of it all. There is flexibility in opinions but anything that doesn't come down on the side of "liking" isn't necessarily untested or inflexible.

    My own ability to be flexible allowed me to at least enjoy the lead up and opening night of ROTS and most of ROTS itself...up until maybe the Nooooo!!!! And it allowed me to go see it 2x after that and buy it on dvd as well. But over time, I realize that this just going with it only took me so far and after a while it started to ring false. I'm glad I did it, it was fun, but it wasn't deep or meaningful to me and hard to sustain without massive effort...the opposite of fun in a way!
    Last edited by sinkie, Oct 17, 2012
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  7. TOSCHESTATION Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2003
    star 4
    ^^^^This.



    Here's another "OT PT Shoe-Horn":

    Ben: Remember, a Jedi can feel the Force flowing through him.
    Luke: You mean it controls your actions?
    Ben: YOU GOT THE RIGHT ONE BABY-EY-EY-EY!! HEY!!!!

    (a la the "Force as Destiny", etc.)

    another example of stuff "made-up" by fans when they attempt to shoe-horn PT concepts into the OT.

    One other thing not brought up in this discussion: if genetics or specifically midichlorian counts are as 'normative' as some say they are, are ALL talents/skills in the SW Universe determined thus? Were Luke's piloting skills also 'inherited'? o_O
    Last edited by TOSCHESTATION, Oct 17, 2012
  8. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    Not quite. I'm saying that most people are stupid.

    The OT was a very straightforward story compared to TPM, and characters like Han Solo might have more widespread appeal among traditional-minded people than say, Jar Jar, who is probably a difficult character to like by design.
    Last edited by StampidHD280pro, Oct 17, 2012
  9. TOSCHESTATION Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2003
    star 4
    I sincerely hope this isn't the People-Who-Didn't-Like-The-PT-Just-Didn't-"Get It" argument......


    "He was irritating/annoying on purpose !!!!" .....ahhh, that makes it better.
  10. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    I get pleasure out of the discomfort Jar Jar causes others, in case you haven't noticed.
  11. TOSCHESTATION Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2003
    star 4
    So Jar-Jar is the 'cinematic equivalent' of a 'troll', then? o_O
    Last edited by TOSCHESTATION, Oct 17, 2012
    StampidHD280pro likes this.
  12. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Let's watch the other-people-are-stupid comments and discuss the films, mmkay?
  13. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    Pretty much.[face_alien]
  14. Mnhay27 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 1
    What exactly does the fact that the unaltered OT is not available on Blu-ray (or whatever) have to do with the quality of the PT?

    I'm not following this train of thought at all.
    Andy Wylde and kainee like this.
  15. sinkie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2004
    star 1
    I said "seeing" it as attack, not that it is. It is more a sense of "new Lucas/Star Wars is trumping the old".

    But some aspects of the PT are now infiltrating the OOT. This is a fact. Hayden's ghost, the SE special planets celebration, weesa free and even Vader's new ROTJ "Noooooo". And we may very well not have seen the end of it yet. But as I said, my main problem is the diminished importance it has for Lucas himself such that he will not release it. Because of this I have lost some respect for the man and it causes me also to have rentment towards his new films as well since they seem to be something he has no problem pushing onto the OT. But it is more just the lack of respect for him on this regard that makes me have a distaste for that same man's new stuff.
    Last edited by sinkie, Oct 18, 2012
  16. Mnhay27 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 1
    I see your point and I kinda get where you're coming from.

    I think most of the changes to the OT are ok, the odd ones bother me (the Jabba scene in ANH is attrocius and whoever's responsible for that particular CGI abomination should be ashamed of themselves but the addition of the scene wouldn't bother me if it actually looked good). Changing Shaw for Christensen in ROTJ didn't bother me at all. I mean, Shaw had like 15 seconds of screen time before the ghost bit so he never felt like a big part of the film whereas, for better or worse, Christensen is now a vital part of the whole saga. But I can see why some folks - especially those who already disliked the prequels - would be annoyed.

    In any case, I do think the prequels should be judged film-by-film on their own merits and how one feels about Lucas personally shouldn't really come into it. I mean, I'm a huge fan of Prince's music and have been for years. But from the many tales I've heard I think the man himself is a complete and total @$$hole. Nonetheless, this does not affect my enjoyment of his work.
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  17. sinkie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2004
    star 1
    True, thankfully though I was already not a fan of the PT before I put 2 and 2 together and realized that the OOT was not even really in the cards any more. It wasn't like he was saying he'd get to it some day. He was saying things like, "What? That old thing? That was just a rough cut, didn't you know?" So it just added fuel to my fire I guess! But again, my biggest problem with the overall current SW juggernaut is the lack of the OOTs presence in a way that respects it for starting it all.
  18. Mnhay27 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 1
    I must admit to being baffled by Lucas's attitude on this point. Whilst I respect his right to make as many different versions of his films as he wants to, there seems to be no good reason why the original theatrical releases cannot be available alongside them. I can't imagine that remastering them would be all that expensive and I'm certain there would be more than enough demand to cover the costs.
  19. MrFantastic74 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2010
    star 4
    I understand what your're saying I just hope the nitpickers don't jump on this and say, "Now, wait a minute, pardner. Show me a documented reference that proves Lucas said those exact words... You can't? Then your statement is a fallacy and your point is invalid." Don't worry, you'll get used to it. They mean well. ;)
  20. sinkie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2004
    star 1
    Actually, I'll try to find one because I sure feel like I read it a long time ago...something to that effect anyway and I seem to recall the words "rough cut" but perhaps that was an interview or article writer's paraphrasing. But now I want to find out where I got that idea!
  21. TOSCHESTATION Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2003
    star 4
    Do 'they' now? o_O:p;)
    Last edited by TOSCHESTATION, Oct 18, 2012
  22. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    I think, quite simply, that Lucas doesn't want to. He would rather focus his attention on the Special Editions. And that's certainly his right -- he's under no moral, ethical, legal, or artistic obligation to restore the originals to modern mass media format. That's where this debate kind of loses me. It's one thing to petition for the O-OT, but quite another to say that Lucas is obligated to give the public a restored version. I've just never seen where this is true -- many of my favorite works of art are out of print and so I had to buy them used or (in one case) in a completely different language.

    But Lucas has lived up to his end of the deal. And while it would certainly be nice of him to restore the O-OT and commercially distribute it, I imagine he's probably more concerned about preserving the Special Edition. And, like it or not, that's his right and his choice to make. It's when fans act as though they're entitled to the O-OT that I have trouble following along.
  23. sinkie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2004
    star 1
    His choice, I admit it is his right and I respect that it is his right but his actions are not ones I need to respect. There is a difference. I respect he can do something, I don't respect when he then does it. It means something, it says something about who he is and how he sees those who supported him for that long. He is far from obligated, but he is also far from doing what he chooses in a vacuum.
  24. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    I think it's possible that Lucas intentionally disrespects fans who disrespect his artistic decisions. It's probably just his way of sticking it to the Man, misguided as it may be.
  25. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    I don't think he intentionally disrespects fans. I imagine he doesn't care what they have to say, though. Art isn't a democracy and people are free to take it or leave it. He's always made the analogy to painting his house a certain color and I think that's really what it comes down to: people may not like what he's doing, but he's not doing it to intentionally upset them. It's just what he wants to do.

    A relevant point made by Bill Cosby that comes into play is this:

    "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody."

    If the charge is that Lucas intentionally disrespects fans he'd have a rather difficult time, considering how varied fan opinion is.
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