PT Red Letter Media and other Prequel Reviews

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Obi-Wan McCartney, Feb 12, 2012.

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  1. TOSCHESTATION Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2003
    star 4
    Or, more accurately, one is trolling and the other one isn't.....


    Thank you for getting it...and thanks to MandalorianDuchess as well for the same.
  2. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I think the O-OT is preserved "for historical purposes" in the Library of Congress. I'd have to double check, but I'm fairly certain of that.

    I do get why people would like it released on Blu-Ray; I don't, however, get it when people insult Lucas for not doing so. It's petty and childish, just as RLM making 70-minute reviews with the intention of insulting people who disagree with him, is petty and childish.

    If the O-OT were released on Blu-Ray, I might buy it for historical purposes if I had the funds at the time, but I'm happy enough with the Blu-Rays that I have. And I did see the O-OT in the theaters in 1977, 1980 and 1983.

    I have kept my VHS tapes of the 1995 box set of the O-OT, as much for the George Lucas interviews at the end as for the films themselves.

  3. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    Just a question but...what exactly does the O-OT and special editions debate have to do with the prequels? I can see how this might be relevant if George Lucas making the prequels caused him to go back and alter the O-OT, but the special editions were released before the PT hit theaters. It just always seems to get brought up. Instead of simply not liking the prequels and forgetting about them, people (generalization here) seem to be somehow angry at the prequels -- as though their existence is the largest obstacle standing in the way to an O-OT release.

    I wonder if that's really true though? It seems to me, based off the few interviews I've read, that George Lucas was always somewhat dissatisfied with the version of the OT that was released in the 70s and 80s and wanted to go back and tinker with them. I don't know, someone with more information might be able to fill me in. I do get the general sense, though, that people "blame" the PT for the lack of OOT which causes a lot of the more powerful hatred (and just seems odd, to me at least).
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  4. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    I find threads on this particular persons opinion very amusing..


    what makes his opinion so special it deserves it's own thread?


    can I make a whole thread on Eberts opinions?

    it's like the adage "ignore the troll"

    people getting annoyed by him are making the guy more noticed.


    kainee likes this.
  5. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Good question. The only reason I know who he is, is due to some of those who dislike the prequels, citing his opinion as if it were the be-all and end-all of opinions on Star Wars and treating him like he's the second coming.

    IOW, it's not those of us who think he's arrogant and bratty, who are giving him the most attention.

    By all means, start that thread on Ebert's opinion though. At least Ebert gets paid to review movies.
    Mzukiller likes this.
  6. TOSCHESTATION Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2003
    star 4
    O.K. But how many people are able to just go to the Library Of Congress and watch the 'Technicolor' print?


    ^^^
    This is where I'm coming from.

    As for people insulting Lucas in other forums, I keep seeing this as an excuse/'crutch' of sorts. If the insults stopped today, would it really change the arguments or positions that people take on this issue? Plus, you have the issue of posters in this thread/on these boards insulting other posters for having opinions that they don't like (or for merely "not being Lucas")...RLM/Plinkett insulting Lucas and PT fans in other forums and 'bashers' elsewhere doing the same doesn't give people here on this site 'license' to do it to others, in 'defence' of Lucas/the PT/the SE's.


    This was true of the first film, SW (1977), but not of the other two (TESB and ROTJ). Read interviews from that time period.



    In closing, if I may repeat:


    "As for the SE's being the "definitive versions" now - that's the whole point. It is thus with SW but not with any other film franchise you can name. There's been some disingenuous reasons put forth about why this is this case ("half-completed films when originally released, etc), but no actual argument against the original version(s) being given equal-footing for historical purposes at least. On that note, I tip my hat to those posters who have acknowledged the historical significance factor as a reason for preserving those films: JimRaynor55, Alexrd, and _Catherine_ (forgive me if I have forgotten any others)."

  7. _Catherine_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2007
    star 4
    My understanding is that the Library of Congress has the original versions of the OT, but their prints are in poor condition and are held only as copyright references, so no one is allowed to view them. The National Film Registry, the branch of the Library of Congress that preserves films considered historically or artistically significant, doesn't have any prints of the OT. They asked Lucas for prints of the original Star Wars and Empire and he offered them the 1997 special edition. The NFR didn't want that version and declined the offer. So the National Film Registry has no copies of the OT, and the Library of Congress only has degraded prints that no one is allowed to use.
    kainee likes this.
  8. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    I have come to a point to where I just don't care if someone does not like what I don't like. As long as they give out a good reason and don't attack people who do enjoy it. If they do attack people who like it then that's sad. If they don't while I will disagree with them at lest I can have respect for them.
  9. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    I knew a bit about ANH -- specifically that he wanted Mos Eisley to be more populous than it originally was to give it more of a sense of "vibrancy" but you're right that I've never heard anything specifically about the other two. Nevertheless, the point I was trying to make was that it seems to me that Lucas would have gone back and tinkered with the OT regardless of if he made the prequels. There's no way we can know for sure, but I get the impression that some fans hate the PT because they feel its existence is preventing the release of the O-OT which I, personally, don't believe to be the case.

    Anyway, I just thought it odd that we were talking about the Special Editions when this thread is about the Prequel Reviews.
    kainee likes this.
  10. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    No, but I am more likely to consider an argument when the poster presents it like an adult. Which is why, as I said, I have a very difficult time taking anything RLM says as more than the rantings of a man my age behaving like a child.

    I agree, but I'm not sure where I've argued otherwise.
  11. Obi-Wan McCartney Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 5
    Like i said, I think his TPM one is funny but I don't necessarily agree, but the AOTC is spot on.

    He makes brilliant points about the series in general regarding the boring dialogue the uninspired repetitive way the dialogue scenes were filmed. Lucas wasn't telling much of a story, it was just a way to give you special effects. The problem was that since EVERYTHING was blue screen, you don't get moving shots, you don't get interesting camera work, it's boring soap opera film making.

    He also makes a great point that for the most part, you don't really care about any of these characters. There is no clear protagonist with an arc. IMHO, it all comes back to AOTC. That was the one where they could have made you care about Anakin and Padme and shown Obi-wan's warm loving brotherly relationship with Anakin.

    I guess it's not so much that i agree with everything he says, I feel the prequels are flawed but entertaining, but it's just the reviews are REALLY FUNNY! I mean, come on, only true star wars fans can get these reviews, they aren't for the casual fan.
  12. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    As I pointed out, some of us cared very much for these characters. RLM may not have and there are people who agree with him, but there is no point in playing a numbers game--"X number of people cared about the characters and X number of people didn't"--unless there has actually been an objective and comprehensive poll done, which I doubt.

    And are we really going to play the "true Star Wars fans think X" game? Who gets to define what a "true Star Wars fan" is?

    That being said, if being a "true Star Wars fan" means I am supposed to find sanctimonious immature rantings to be funny, I'll take the "casual fan" label.
    kainee likes this.
  13. Obi-Wan McCartney Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 5
    I didn't mean it like "True star wars fans will agree with RLM", I meant it more like Only true star wars fans will even UNDERSTAND the references and jokes he is making (whether or not you agree or find the jokes funny).
  14. MandalorianDuchess Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2010
    star 3
    You know, I should probably know better than to take the bait... but I'll just tell you flat out that nothing you say about AOTC coincides with my own experience looking forward to the movie, and being more excited about the whole thing than just about anything else I've ever been interested at least as far as entertainment goes.

    I think I read the AOTC novelization just a few hours before the movie's debut. On the one hand I didn't want spoilers but at the same time, I was just so super-curious about everything that was about to unfold that I just couldn't resist. I think I read all of the novelization except for maybe the last 2-3 chapters. For me, it was a total page-turner. I was just fascinated by what was happening. Did I ever stop to think about how good or not-so-good the dialogue was? No, not for a minute.

    Then, on the day of the midnight premiere, I was just super duper excited and couldn't wait to see everything on the big screen and to listen to the music and all the sound effects and... well, you get the idea. I was not let down, not for a single moment! And I went back again and again, and enjoyed it every bit as much... in some cases, like with some Easter eggs, even more with repeat viewings.

    To this day, I still cherish just about every scene in AOTC - and the whole PT as a whole. I don't think it's anything more or less than what it intends to be - better-than-average entertainment aimed primarily at younger viewers. As such, it works deliciously, fabulously, imho.

    There's really no other movie series I have ever enjoyed as much as the SW series - all 6 of them. Many others come very close, including BTTF and Indiana Jones, obviously. I don't know what is "good" in the eye of the SW bashers, but I do know what is fun for me when I want to watch a movie that's just plain fun to watch. And TPM, AOTC and ROTS are very near the ultimate in "fun" movies as far as I'm concerned.

    Why others feel differently is a mystery that I will probably never understand (nor do I really feel compelled to understand it, mind you).never
    kainee likes this.
  15. Thegoat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
    star 1
    Anakin_Darth, your argument makes no sense at all. It sounds like you are saying that the only way that fans should be able to view the originals is to get a copy of the original theatrical print. This is absurd and pretty much makes the entire home video market obsolete. You know full well what OT fans mean (a version with the original crawl, no CGI/1997 changes, and perhaps the original mono/stereo tracks as a bonus feature). Also, by repeatedly insisting that presenting a film in 1080p is somehow "altering" just shows that you really don't know what your talking about.

    TOSHISTATION, I would like to echo PiettsHat in asking, what on Earth does the OT vs. SE debate have to do with RLM's prequel reviews? It is has massively derailed the thread, which is supposed to be about how much Plinkett sucks. :p
  16. Mond Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2009
    star 3
    I can see why someone may have liked the TPM review when it came out two years ago; he is a moderately talented comedian with pretty good timing and delivery.

    What I don't get is why I seem to be the only person who sees his nonstop flogging of this review that he made years ago for what it is: opportunistic exploitation of the wildly popular Star Wars brand for self-promotion purposes. Go take a gander at his Facebook: every other post is some Star Wars this or Lucas that thing thrown out to keep his fanbase stirred up and paying attention. He moved his videos from YouTube to a site where he could actually generate ad revenue, and now his videos are festooned with pop-up ads and "unskippable" ads.

    And here we have his latest offering. Is it, say, an original creative effort from this would-be filmmaker? Nope, it's a Plinkett commentary track for TPM that can be yours for just $1.99!

    http://redlettermedia.bandcamp.com/

    So basically we've got a guy who periodically stokes Lucas-hate to keep his "career" afloat and make money. And the cretin actually uses deploring of the commercialization of Star Wars as part of his shtick!



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  17. Nordom Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2004
    star 4
    It has been my observation that the gusher side is the one who often uses the "You are not a SW fan" stuff.
    If you don't totally LOVE all SW movies then you are not a SW fan. If you dislike any SW movie then you are not a SW fan. If offer any criticism agains Lucas then you are not a SW fan. These are all arguments I have come across many times.
    I agree that it is pointless and useless to play this game. Noone has any buisness telling anyone that they have no right to call themselves "SW fans" based on how much they like/dislike something.

    This is why I dislike these labels that gets thrown around, "Bashers", "Gushers", "Haters", "Lucas appologists".
    All they do is to destroy good and friendly discussion and instead make this into some kind of fight.

    Regards
    Nordom

  18. Anakin_Darth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2005
    star 2

    1) First of all, it's "You're", NOT "Your", I can't stand when functioning adults don't know the difference. You learned this in 4th grade, for God's sakes....

    2) Tell me, was the original 1977 film shown on a digital print, in 1080p? No, huh? Okay then, so in order to make it viewable on Blu-Ray you have to *gasp*(say it slowly with me now) ALTER IT. Woah, that was tough. :rolleyes:

    3) Lucas ALREADY GAVE US the exact OT that you just described on the 2006 DVD version (which are from what? Ohhhhhh, right, the ORIGINAL THEATRICAL PRINTS) quit whining about it. Jesus, even when the man gives fans what they want, they still complain.
  19. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    Nope. Laserdisc (the format placed on the DVD) features MUCH more resolution loss in the transfer compared to 1080p*.

    You don't get to say 1080p is so different from film that it doesn't count as "unaltered", then turn around and say that laserdisc transfers count as the "original theatrical prints". That's just insane.


    *1080p, as in the closest to film of any home video option
  20. Anakin_Darth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2005
    star 2


    Uh, yep. I said Lucas gave us the version HE WAS talking about (no SE-changes, etc). No matter what, Lucas would have to *alter it* in some way to make it viewable to the public, which doesn't make it *original* anymore. And if you just want the pre-SE OT, like I said a dozen times, he ALREADY gave that to us in 2006. Not that hard to comprehend, here.
  21. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    EDIT: Nope. You're right. A mod will show up eventually. Troll away.
  22. Gallandro Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 4
    Wasn't this a thread about Red Letter Media's reviews of the Prequels. I knew this whole thing was going to get derailed once somebody mention the SEs vs OT.

    [face_whistling]

    Yancy
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  23. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    And why does he feel the need to talk for all the fans? He does not know how I feel about the movie that's the problem.

    I don't mind if you don't feel for the characters. But not ever one is going to feel that way. People take different things from the movie and have different feelings. Me I enjoyed the movies and enjoyed the characters. You did not so much enjoy them. To each his own.

    What my observation has been is that people have different tastes and some times we grow out of things we used to enjoy. That does not make someone less of a fan. More like if you don't enjoy it like you used to you should not force you're self to try and like it. I have had that happen with bands and singers in music.

    There are some I just don't enjoy as much as I used to. It does not make me less of a fan. I'm just not that much into what they are putting out and I moved on. I still talk about the things I do like. So for me I don't see those who dislike the PT as haters or whatever I just see them for that they are a fan who has a different view and different taste. We are all going to have a different views and tastes.
  24. Gallandro Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 4
    Agreed, BTW love your signature, that's how I rate them too.


    Yancy
  25. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    He doesn't. The first-person-plural thing is a common device in movie reviews, to evoke the communal experience of the theater.

    Don't sweat it. I certainly don't when critics talk about how "we" laugh at Napoleon Dynamite or such, for example.
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