Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Obi-Wan McCartney, Feb 12, 2012.
what is esoterica?
Arawn, I have to thank you again for providing the link to the rebuttal to Red Letter Media's The Phantom Menace review. I am in the process of reading it through and jotting down notes / rebuttals of my own, but I am also finding succor here, some good points that make me see certain details in a new and more positive light.
This review needs to be posted ALL over the internet!
If you haven't already read them, might I recommend some of my favorite essays:
I guess where I find the RLM reviews annoying is that, as a PT fan, I've constantly been told to watch those reviews in order to explain what's "wrong" with the PT. But I have watched all of them -- multiple times, along with the Confused Matthew reviews, the Distressed Watcher reviews, the Spoony reviews (although this one is a written review), etc. It hasn't changed my opinion.
And yet, I haven't found that many who dislike the PT have gone through and read Jim Raynor's rebuttal or the either of the essays I posted.
There's no reason to treat the RLM reviews as though they're the be-all, end-all decision on the PT. Not when many more insightful (in my opinion) pieces have already been written.
To PiettsHat you listen
Bob is actually a regular poster on this board.
Those two guys are more enthusiastic about TPM and AOTC than I myself was originally.
Now I know that if something doesn't work for you on an emotional level than rationalization won't help much but maybe you'll at least appreciate their contribution to the Star Wars mythology a bit more.
In keeping with the idea that RLM were a little unfair to RoTS, I never had a problem with that. If some of the games are to be accepted as canon, it means there were wars involving the Sith - who often operated very openly - for millennia before the thousand years when they were thought extinct. So it would be a little like asking "How do you know what a Nazi is?" - just because the Third Reich hasn't been around for a while doesn't mean that nobody would know what a Nazi was. Anyone with a basic history education - and certainly anyone as obviously refined and well-educated as Palpatine - would know something like that.
That's RLM in a nutshell: nonsense criticism.
Well, now, I didn't exactly say that. Again, I think their TPM review was brilliant, and dead-on. But they were kind of reaching a few times with the RoTS review, and it led them say some things about that film that were a little unfair.
In fact, RLM's best criticism of RoTS was in their pre-Plinkett short film, The United States of Nooooo
No, I did. And the truth is that - unsurprisingly - most of the content of the TPM review is no more "dead on" than the aforementioned nonsensical whining about Palpatine knowing about the Sith. This is documented. RLM reviews merely have the correct ( meaning socially acceptable ) sentiment. Their content is usually as bankrupt as "Palpatine shouldn't know about the Sith". That is not an outlier. It is not an inexplicable, uncharacteristic example of finding imaginary fault. It is a typical example of what RLM is all about. Talking points, sentiment, nonsense criticism.
Sorry, don't have time to watch the video... but is it about Vader's 'noooo'? And that audience is supposedly hates it?
I saw ROTS a few times when it came out. Believe it or not, I never heard anyone laugh at Vader's Nooo!, whether it was the crowded opening night with mostly fans or a busy matinee with parents, kids, sailors on leave and all sorts of other folks. I discussed the movie with a few coworkers (all no more than casual fans). They had a few complaints (such as Padme's death being corny), but Nooh! never came up. I can see why some think it's underwhelming but I never knew that it's awful or ridiculous until I read it on the Internet. It's just one of those things that get blown out of proportion by the Star Wars fanatics.
Funny, the whole theater burst out laughing in the theater I saw it in.
Well if you consider that Lucas did want to make him look pathetic...
And it's true that the crowd may vary. I remember people laughing at Jar Jar's antics. I really don't believe that most people have a problem with Vader's Noooh! just based on my own experience.
Making him look pathetic is one thing. Making him look like Principal Skinner is another.
Well, I guess I should be glad I don't see it that way.
Regardless, RLM's clip doesn't represent the general opinion.
In the fairy-tale inspired Star Wars, people do scream "Nooo!" if something extremely bad happens to them.
Kenobi does, Luke does and so does Vader.
It's part of the game.
This isn't what I've found. I don't personally know a single person who likes these movies. Before I became acquainted with the internet sometime around '03, I assumed everyone hated them. the only places I've ever found supporters of these flicks were Star Wars fansites & even there it's a polarizing issue.
By the same token, though, I know many people who quite like the PT or at least hold it in the same esteem as the OT. My little brother, for instance, believes that everyone who likes Star Wars loves all of it -- OT, PT, TCW, etc. So I don't know that our personal experiences say anything in general about the population.
It's like the question of the ROTS theater viewing --
-NaTaLie- said no one laughed at the "No" while Narutakikun said plenty of people did, but I don't think either one of them are lying.
If you look for "Star Wars" clips on youtube for example, the first you find is of the final battle in Episode III between Obi-Wan and Anakin which has 22,828 likes and 528 dislikes.
The RedLetterMedia TPM review (part 1) has 22,066 "likes" but 1,842 "dislikes." Which is comparable.
So there's certainly a lot of people who like the RLM reviews. But there are also quite a few people who like the PT as well. And I don't think we can generalize anything about the audience in large part because most people's feelings about Star Wars aren't as intense as ours.
For sure. I'm just stating my personal experience. That's all I got.
I think a lot may have to do with age. Just about everyone I know who really likes the prequels grew up with them, whereas people who grew up with the OT tend to hate the prequels.
Even if RLM's reviews are a little biased and unfair, you can still agree that they are absolutely hilarious
Nope. Not hilarious to me...
Well, I'm in my 30s so I didn't grow up with the prequels. My husband is the same age but he can't take any of Star Wars seriously (the OT especially, due to the outdated special effects). I've know younger people who dislike the prequels and the old timers accepting them. The most common opinion is that they're ok, but not as good as the originals. Which is something I mostly agree with myself, except that I'll take ROTS over ROTJ (and I'm not the only one, from what I've seen). However, the best way is to view everything as one saga as this OT vs. PT dichotomy is detrimental to being a fan.