PT Red Letter Media and other Prequel Reviews

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Obi-Wan McCartney, Feb 12, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Moderators: Bazinga'd
  1. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    Well, Star Wars was always popular with kids. Most of the die-hard fans are those who watched Star Wars as a kid/teen, after all.
    kainee likes this.
  2. KilroyMcFadden Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 3
    I don't know anyone the likes the PT except the 5ish (10ish?) hardcore people that defend it on this thread, and my 4 year old son whose favorite SW movie is the Phantom Edit. Admittedly, I just watched a set of fan edits that have opened my mind way open to the possibility that there may be some good movies trapped inside the GL versions.
    Last edited by KilroyMcFadden, Dec 18, 2012
  3. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    OK, let's sum up the last couple of pages of the thread:

    Post A: I don't know anyone who likes the PT. I've talked to 8726583 people over the past 13 years and none of them like the PT. My opinion is fact because everybody I know agrees with me, and if you look in the dictionary under "absolute fact", you will find "the opinion shared by everyone I know, everyone I have ever talked to, or everyone whom I have personally seen request a movie in a store."

    Post B: A lot of people like the PT. The list can be found here: the majority of people that I have talked to over the past 13 years, polls on certain Internet websites, various critics just after the movies premiered, people of certain age groups.

    Now for some questions:

    1. I'm asking this for at least the third time, and it's actually rather amusing that people seem to be avoiding it: Are you all willing to just own your opinions, or are you really that dependent on what "everyone else" or "everyone you know" thinks? I'm still waiting for someone to explain where the "X number of people liked or disliked the prequels" argument is supposed to go. It doesn't matter if everyone liked the prequels except one person, it doesn't matter if no one liked the prequels except one person, that one person still has a valid opinion, and the back and forth on this is quite frankly ridiculous.

    2. Are we done talking about RLM and other prequel reviews? I don't think anyone has actually mentioned one in several pages, just argued back and forth over whether some magical being in the sky named "Everyone" agrees with them.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Dec 18, 2012
    SlashMan, kainee, Samnz and 3 others like this.
  4. JimRaynor55 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2005
    star 3
    Want to know where prequel fans could be found? At the movies. It's pretty amazing when someone can say that they know of all of five "hardcore people" (real respectful to label every prequel fan here as "hardcore," BTW) in one thread who liked these movies. Are the people who paid money for tickets, lined up (or even camped out) at theaters, bought the DVDs, bought the merchandise, watch the spinoff cartoons, and paid money to see the movie in 3D at the theater again all imaginary? All of that involved millions of people and billions of dollars.

    Some of the posts in this thread really sound like people choosing only to deal with others with the same opinions, while failing to acknowledge everything else around them. Just like my coworker who was taken by surprise that Romney didn't win in a massive landslide, because "nobody" liked Obama.

    Again, I was unimpressed with Star Trek 2009, but I will never deny its massive success. I also didn't care for the Transformers and Pirates of the Caribbean sequels, but those were huge mainstream successes as well. My indifferent/negative opinion of them is the minority. I choose to acknowledge that truth rather than tell myself that everyone actually agrees with me.
    EmSeeSquared, kainee, Samnz and 3 others like this.
  5. JimRaynor55 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2005
    star 3
    Exactly. The fan need for self-validation is so apparent here. The need to insist to others on a message board that everyone else really truly thinks just like they do. "Everyone I talked to" is actually "people with the same tastes and opinions as me, hence why we hang out in the first place."

    Arguing over opinions is pointless. If people argue or debate, then they should at least deal in facts and use a solid logical methodology. People also should stop staking their identity and self-esteem on their opinions. Your movie opinion comes from who you are. Who you are does not come from a movie opinion. If your movie opinion happens not to be the super majority (as certain people seem to be claiming here), that should be fine. Just acknowledge it and move on, because it really doesn't mean anything.
    Last edited by JimRaynor55, Dec 18, 2012
  6. JimRaynor55 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2005
    star 3
    I looked back on the previous page to see how this nonsense even started. It seems to be a sidetrack away from a blog link that NaTaLie posted. A link which was actually quite interesting because it looked at a historical article about TESB and compared its methodology to the prequel criticism of today. I think the digression is unfortunate because instead of talking about the actual article, people just decided to come out and say that everyone agrees with their personal opinion.

    The article raises points similar to some things I've said before, using ANH as an example instead. The SW movies have always had plot holes (real or perceived), as well as material that was nitpicked and second guessed. People can have whatever opinion about those things that they want; I noticed a lot of stuff before and enjoyed the original movies anyway.

    What I don't agree with is the elevation of the originals to untouchable holy status, where people build them up as perfect ideals of movie making with which nothing can ever hope to compare. The originals are held them up as beyond scrutiny, with criticism about them rejected or deemed invalid from the start. Meanwhile, a different (often far more particular) set of standards is used for everything else. Whether it be the prequels or perceived "rival" franchises, none of them will ever measure up to that idealized version of the OT.
    kainee, Samnz, Valairy Scot and 2 others like this.
  7. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    well I feel I can answer this with no bias on my part at all.

    I'm now just a fan. I'm neither a fan that sees the films as a holy grail of awesomness, neither am I a fan of only the OT and thinks the PT is dog filth with a squirt of cat poop mixed in. Although I must admit I'm not exactly a fan of the third film ROTS I can appreciate it does have some good moments and not about to spit on it in it's overall presentation.

    I must point out the hypocrisy though of what I call "the defenders of the PT" of this thread

    example:

    Anakinfans rather biased summary of Post A and Post B.

    Post A is written as if everybody who agrees with RLM (and believe me I'm not one of them, as a critic of ESB, he thinks i'm a ******** idiot, my name is also Rick..) is some kind of arrogant, hot headed bigot, that can't create a constructive argument.

    Post B seems to be written with a more level headed approach, as though those who like the PT are also rational calm people who provide facts, while those that critisize the PT don't.

    Neither is the case. Both "groups" in this argument are doing exactly the same thing


    note: Aplogies if I'm reading too much into the POST A and B thing

    it just came across as ironic with a captial I.
  8. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    They read the same to me. The point is clear.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  9. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    weren't to me

    *shrugs*

    Post B was far more level headed to my way of thinking.


    That's why I hope I'm wrong
    Last edited by Sistros, Dec 18, 2012
  10. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    It is not suggested that one group is more reasonable than the other. She is offering examples based upon the conversation thats taken place over the past couple of pages from each camp(for lack of a better word).

    How is the point being made not clear? Read the whole thing, don't worry about the Post A/ Post B situation. She is saying they are both wrong, that they are both unreasonable.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  11. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    nevermind,

    we will be arguing semantics,

    it read wrong to me

    it didn't to you

    apples and oranges

    but I do agree with the bolded part,


    and I also agree that no one has mentioned RLM in awhile

    which makes the whole thing pointless.
  12. Narutakikun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    Here's a question we should all ask: How would we have reacted to these movies if they weren't Star Wars films? I mean, if they'd just been "Joe Blow presents: Space Adventures", and we'd seen them at a lazy Sunday matinee or on Netflix, and thus if we saw them without any baggage or expectations?

    The truth of the matter is that I probably would have found them mildly distracting and not been angry at myself for spending the few bucks to see them, but would have forgotten them by the time I'd finished dinner that night and would really never have thought about them again.
  13. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    I did watch them this way. I loved them. Heck, I prefer them (a tad more) over the OT films. I think, actually, that watching them without any baggage makes them much, much easier to enjoy because then you can simply take the characters as they are. There's no frustration about "Darth Vader" in TPM being portrayed as a "snot-nosed" (as I've heard him described) kid. I can watch Anakin without reading dark intentions into each and every one of his actions. I can watch the Jedi without being eternally frustrated that they aren't the supposed perfect paragons of virtue they were in the OT. I can be genuinely shocked at the ending of ROTS instead of waiting for Vader to appear.

    The prequels have a great story, wonderful characters, amazing music, stupendous special effects and world-building, etc. What's not to like? :p
    First Star Wars movie I watched was TPM. First Star Wars movie I bought was TPM.

    Well that seems to be an improvement over your current opinion of them now. :p
    kainee and Darth Chiznuk like this.
  14. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    My original point was that all five sequels of Star Wars (ANH) were polarizing, not just the prequels. If everyone agreed they're bad, there would be no debate anywhere. It's true that this forum has a large number of prequels "gushers" but I've seen plenty of positive comments or reviews outside of it, even in places that seem to be fairly negative, like IMDB.
    kainee likes this.
  15. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    It's interesting because most of the people I know who aren't particularly into Star Wars will watch either the original trilogy films or the prequels equally. Granted that's just my anecdotal evidence, though. What's interesting is that when I went on google, I searched for "favorite star wars film poll" and found this (the fourth result down):

    http://www.nextmovie.com/blog/star-wars-poll-results/

    Now, it's not a scientific poll by any means, but I thought the results were interesting, especially since they seem to have gotten a fair number of votes in. Obi-Wan, who won the best character vote with 12,000 still only got 25% of the vote. Meaning that about 48,000 votes were cast. And interestingly, Obi-Wan is a character that features far more prominently in the PT than the OT (where he's barely in ESB or ROTJ) and they used Ewan McGregor's photo for the poll.

    Also, look at the favorite film results:

    Favorite Movie

    “Star Wars: Episode III – Revenge of the Sith” – 30%
    “Star Wars: Episode V – The Empire Strikes Back” – 28%
    “Star Wars: Episode II – Attack of the Clones” – 14%
    “Star Wars: Episode IV – A New Hope” – 13%
    “Star Wars: Episode VI – Return of the Jedi” – 11%
    “Star Wars: Episode I – The Phantom Menace” – 4%

    ROTS won. Followed by ESB (which the site describes as the "classic favorite") and then AOTC. And this was conducted in 2011, so it's not like you can simply say that it was due to ROTS being released recently.

    So, yes, I recognize that there are many people who dislike the prequels and that those of us who do like them could very well be in the vast minority. But even if that is so, what does it matter? Does more people liking the OT make it better? Does it make you like it more? What exactly does it change?

    I understand that a lot of people don't like the PT films and were disappointed in them. I've read/watched extensive reasons for why people feel this way and they have every right to hold such an opinion. But I don't agree with their reasons and it's honestly as simple as that.
    Last edited by PiettsHat, Dec 19, 2012
  16. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    In my home country the OT never had a wide theatrical release so we watched it on video starting with late 80s and of course a lot of people saw the prequels first. When I check movie sites and forums it seems that most people either don't like any of them or accept it as one saga and the rankings are very similar for all six (ROTS is usually the most popular one).
    kainee likes this.
  17. Darth Chiznuk Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    I would have reacted in the exact manner that I did 13 years ago. Amazed at the scope and beauty of the story presented on screen. I didn't go into the film with any preconceived notion of what that story should be. Surely I had thoughts, ideas and opinions of what I might see but those quickly disappeared the instant STAR WARS blasted on to the screen. From that point on I simply sat back and enjoyed and didn't worry about anything I had come up with in my mind. But that's just me!
    Last edited by Darth Chiznuk, Dec 19, 2012
    kainee likes this.
  18. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Personally, I don't care if 99% of "the people" hated the PT.

    I DO care when a certain group of them consistantly and constantly drags in the "everyone hates" and all the derogatory comments which give the impression that any folks foolish enough to actually like the PT are deranged, insane, or blind "luvahs" into almost every darn thread.

    The only reason I speak up is to otherwise silently condone the "everyone knows" views, not to insist my viewpoint is correct.

    On a lesser scale, we have a vocal minority who slam TCW in the TCW threads (Sistro, I'm not talking the negative episode comments, etc., I'm talking the very very few who interject their views on TCW's very existance into almost every thread).

    Hate the PT if you must. Tell me on every thread you hate the PT.

    Just don't tell me "everyone hates" the PT because - darn it - you've just made me and a bunch of others into "nobodies" because we are NOT part of "everyone."
    Last edited by Valairy Scot, Dec 19, 2012
  19. Samnz Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 2
    There are people who need to justify their irrational and alarming hatred for a subject or object by saying "everyone else does". It makes it better for them. They feel better.
    Whenever you get to think "It's the right thing to hate this or that", you should be worried about yourself.
    It's a lesson we should have learned from history.
  20. TheMadHatter Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2009
    star 4
    There are people who need to justify their irrational and alarming hatred for a subject or object by saying "everyone else does". It makes it better for them. They feel better.
    Whenever you get to think "It's the right thing to hate this or that", you should be worried about yourself.
    It's a lesson we should have learned from history.


    --

    Bane: really? then what is the "like" function doing here?
  21. windu4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2008
    star 4
    I think the main difference between people who vehemently dislike the PT (and can explain why) and people who like the PT are either age or the fact that they put film analysis ahead of a film franchise. While the latter are just Star Wars fans who are willing to look past what could be considered plot holes and poor acting/storylines. This isn't an insult to the latter group. People do that with stuff they like all the time. Once you get through Plinkett's humor he makes tons of valid points from the perspective of a film critic rather than Star Wars fan. It'd be hard to argue that point on a star wars forum but I'll try anyway.
    Last edited by windu4, Dec 23, 2012
  22. Padmes_love_slave24 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2003
    star 2

    Ok the everyone I know argument is the dumbest argument. BTW I am 33 and Star Wars has ALWAYS been for families get that through your thick head! I love how so called older "fans" seem to like to have revisionist memory about that they have always been made for the enjoyment of a younger audience and enjoyed by adults alike. Another stupid revisionist rant is the overuse of special effects in the PT when the use of special effects for the OT were GROUNDBREAKING at that time especially for ESB and ROTJ and many people said at the time they are special effects action spectacles with little substance. Just because everyone in your small obscure circle doesn't like the PT doesn't mean all people hate the PT, in fact more people like the PT than who dislike it. Box office numbers, DVD and Blu Ray sales support that. I am tired of non star wars fans who always happen to be "new users" who joined this site in the last few months going on inflammatory rants
  23. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    A "film critic" is still, at the end of the day, just a person with an opinion, no more valid than mine or yours.
  24. Padmes_love_slave24 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2003
    star 2

    Thank you I love how people try to devalue their own opinions and like to make themselves subservient to people they deem more worth of expressing a opinion I can't begin to express how frightened I am by people who think this way in life. And I can explain all day why I enjoy the PT and why I shouldn't give the subhuman Plinkett the time of day but why should I? I don't owe anyone a dam thing!
    kainee likes this.
  25. windu4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2008
    star 4
    This is exactly what I'm talking about. I never said there was anything wrong with film critics or Star Wars fans. Two normal yet different groups who look at Star Wars differently. Yet you're here calling him subhuman just because he disagrees with you.
    TOSCHESTATION likes this.
Moderators: Bazinga'd
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.