Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Obi-Wan McCartney, Feb 12, 2012.
You consider those "racist stereotypes" but you enjoy Stoklasa's reviews?
I think those who see racism in those characters are the ones being racist.
To be frank, I don't enjoy these aspects of Star Wars where aliens=foreign accents/stereotypes, which was always something I disliked about the OT as well.
The way this guy spoke was a clear caricature of Asian stereotypes and I consider it a precursor of the Trade Federation guys. I actually consider this guy to be the worst offender because he was so gratuitous. By contrast, I found almost all of the "racist" aliens introduced in the prequels to have at least served a purpose. For this guy, I don't really see a reason why he needed to be portrayed the way he was, which I found especially egregious because he was supposed to be a good guy.
For other examples I found bothersome from the OT: the Tusken raiders, Ewoks, and Jawas from the OT can be considered stereotypes of indigenous people with the Sandpeople's closest equivalence being Arabs, Ewoks closest to white stereotypes combining the stereotypes of cannibalistic Aztecs with Native Americans, and Jawas a caricature of Jews AND Arabs. I'm not even going to go into Oola and how she plays on stereotypes black fetishists seem to love, which then brings me to the critical eye I would have about the sexism rampant in Star Wars and fandom.
However, in order to help myself enjoy Star Wars despite the dated references that come out of a less enlightened culture as well as some unfortunate implications because these films are produced by human beings who are limited by their culture, I choose to believe these are aliens in their own right and there are in-universe explanations for these aliens' behavior and speech. What that means is I choose not to nitpick stuff that don't correlate with what I recognize as acceptable and that attitude informs my perception whenever I watch ANY Star Wars movie, regardless of whether or not it's from the OT or PT. If I do let my judgmental side take over then I would NEVER love Star Wars once I realized that stuff I didn't notice as a kid were not okay. And that has happened before to me where I fell out of love with stuff I liked as a kid because I realized there were some disturbing assumptions.
What this means is that I don't bag on the bothersome aliens in the OT and I also extend that policy for the PT. This is only my personal opinion though and please note I don't use this to denigrate people who enjoy the OT or the PT unlike what you have implied with such a great derogatory tone.
Actually I think the racial/ethnic stereotypes used in the PT are far more offensive than anything done in the RLM reviews -- aside from murdering and dismembering prostitutes. That's all done in the Plinkett character to break up the reviews and keep them from being 90 minute walls of uninterrupted criticism and obviously it's simple dark humor...
In fact I'm struggling to think of anything that was racist in the RLM reviews... I mean they point out "diversity" in the SW movies and why they chose Sam Jackson as a Jedi but I don't recall much that was racist -- maybe saying "The "urban market" stole my television" and calling Lando's copilot a Mexican... Less offensive than a 6 foot tall rabbit with a Jamaican accent who steps in the poopie. We could do a dissertation on the negative stereotypes of Watto alone.
If you can ignore Stoklasa's offensive stereotypes about "what women want" but worry about Jar-Jar being a caricature of some sort, we're probably not going to find much common ground.
Sorry, that's not a "Jamaican accent". Jamaicans do not sound like the kids from Full House or speak in simpering high-pitched baby-talk.
Wrong. He was voiced by a Kenyan and spoke Kenyan native dialects.
I think those who see racism in those characters are the ones being racist.
eh don't actually agree with this,
this downplays racism imo, and a prime example of shutting down an argument
"oh well you must be racist because you saw racism there"
it's to me very passive aggressive,
Star Wars draws inspiration from different cultures. One of Amidala's outfits resembles geisha's. Does it mean it's a Japanese stereotype?
I saw no argument. Merely saying those characters are racist stereotypes is not an argument. But feel free to explain where is the racism in those?
never said there were any,
I'm just saying that what I quoted seemed flippant
anyway, feel free to disagree.
Which race is Jabba?
Jar Jar was a hero in TPM, so was Nien Numb in ROTJ. How about Jimmy Smits, Samuel L Jackson, and Billy Dee Williams, Temeura Morrison, do they not count because they were not puppets? The evil villains were white: Palpatine, Anakin, Dooku, (what race was Darth Maul, devil? Is star wars racist against devils?).
There not raciest unless there saying some thing negative
This is not Red Letter but for me the best commentary on the whole Mustafar scene and what a mess it was
I've seen the Confused Matthew reviews and one of the issues I have with him is that he seems to view every scene and character motive in isolation. He doesn't look at the arc or trajectory of the character and instead keeps a static perspective that makes character actions or choices seem illogical. He's also rather shrill and immature at times, unfortunately, which can make listening to his reviews an ordeal.
For me, I just very much dislike the way he analyzes characters. In his Lion King review, when he declares Simba an "asshole" for instance and then says that actions he takes later in the film are illogical, it simply doesn't work for me. I have much the same problem with his analysis of Anakin in that he doesn't really look at the character in context.
I agree with you about his Lion King review a bit over the top. I don't always agree with everything he says. For instance his Pocahontas review talked about making light of the real life Indian tragedy, and used Titanic as a comparison. Which had me dumbfounded since in the film First Officer Murdoc is a guy portrayed taking bribes, killing people and then killing himself. In real life the guy was a hero who actually gave up his seat on a lifeboat to somone else and whose final recorded moments was trying to save lives. The real life family were so upset that Cameron was forced to apologise to them for ruining his name !
I also fiound myself chuckling with his Clone Wars Movie review whether it was comparing Sam Jackson line delivery, or his shock at Anakin talking about respect to Ahsoka.
Like I care about some useless rant on youtube, some of you should stop visiting the PT boards instead of linking these videos if you are only going to contribute inflammatory links
Uneducated YouTube rants. Id rather consider Camille Paglia's thoughtful take on the finale of Episode III.
So . . . we're supposed to believe that characters Jar-Jar, Watto and members of the Trade Federation are automatically racial stereotypes? Just like that?
Nope, never. The race-baiters can never agree on which ethnicity is being stereotyped, so it's safe to dismiss their charges out of hand. I would call it laughable if it didn't impugn the character and motives of some very good people - George Lucas and Ahmed especially.
And concerning Jar Jar...even if his voice was based on a real ethnicity (which doesn't seem to be the case)...he is portrayed as a hero in the film, as someone who built bridges between societies and species, as a person with a good heart who helped freeing his home world...isn't that good? Where is the problem? Just because he is clumsy? Because he is an alien?
Wouldn't it be more questionable that all Imperials in Ep. IV - VI have a British accent? Are Britains supposed to be evil?
Number one -- EVERYTHING
No. Don't make it personal. -Darth Boba
Under-educated, perhaps. I mean, schooling is mandatory, and they do at least *claim* to be educating you. Schools, to me, though, are more like prison yards, complete with tribal rites and Darwinian "survival of the fittest/coolest" memes/memeplexes.
You've actually twigged to one of the key facets of the Star Wars mythology: in part, it's a colonial text, with most of the political power residing in the hands of white, English-speaking male humans, David Lean's favoured actor, Alec Guinness, as Obi-Wan -- Luke's mentor and the aged form of his father's mentor -- and a main musical theme built around classic marching themes of upper-class arrogance/defiance endemic to the British Empire (Empire -- hmm); even a good chunk of the saga was filmed in England with its share of English or British actors.
Furthermore, Jar Jar's species name is a clear lift of the film title "Gunga Din", based on a Rudyard Kipling poem of the same name, and Jar Jar himself is a satirical affront to the unquestioned racism of the world/mythopoeic landscape in which he finds himself (note, for instance, how Jar Jar is the only non-human on the landing platform on Coruscant; and how he is completely ignored by his own system's senator). Yet Jar Jar himself has been pilloried by the fanbase as a "racist caricature". How both right and wrong it's possible to be at the same time. This kind of parochial blindness only re-emphasizes -- to me -- how unconscious real racism actually is.
Cryogenic is back.