PT Red Letter Media and other Prequel Reviews

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Obi-Wan McCartney, Feb 12, 2012.

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  1. Anakin_Darth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2005
    star 2

    Yeah, yeah, yeah, use the age old "Troll" excuse.

    I'm stating facts, if you can't handle that, then too bad, but nothing I said was troll-like. Lucas already gave us the OT that fans asked for already in 2006, get over it.


    As for the topic at hand, RLM is a nobody, just some old dude with an opinion and a video editing program. Nothing he said in his review made any sense, and can be debunked so easily.
  2. MandalorianDuchess Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2010
    star 3
    Yes, he did do that. But it still hasn't been upgraded to high-def, like the other versions. It doesn't take any "tinkering" per se, just needs to be remastered for blu-ray.

  3. wcleere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 3
    100% truth. Which is why arguing with a prequel hater will end up with you saying facts and him saying "your mother" and taking his ball home.
    Andy Wylde likes this.
  4. Sword_Of_Goliath Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 22, 2010
    star 3
    I personally don't want the original versions, at this point, I don't care. However, he could easily have made the 2006 versions compatible with widescreen tv's. That was a bad move. Either make them available or not. Lucas was clearly still concerned with what he feels are the "unfinished" "inferior" versions competing with the "authorized" versions.

    Having said that, if the fan response had been more positive, along the lines of "this is great, please make this part of the BR release too, keep in mind we all have widescreen tv's now" he might have responded more positively in kind. He seems like a person who just shuts out negativity, and probably had an emotional response along the lines of, "Damned if I do, damned if I don't, so I won't."

    Stanley Kubrick had "Clockwork Orange" banned from British cinemas because he thought the film incited violence, Alan Moore won't let his name appear on films adapted from his works, many authors will refuse to sign books they have disowned. Just because we support their work it doesn't mean that artists are vending machines. If they were like us, they wouldn't be artists. They have strong visions of how things should be, it's not a matter of simple logic. The same willpower that created ILM, Skywalker Sound, THX standard, Pixar, the SW universe etc. is the same will that thinks the older versions are out of date. People who want the original versions in hi-def might have think their way around his psychology. Just a thought.
    Prodigy_Knight and kainee like this.
  5. Thegoat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
    star 1
    1) My apologies. It was getting late for me and I did not bother to proofread my post. I do take offense to your condescension, however. A "functioning adult," as you so rudely put it, should be capable of continuing an argument without repeatedly stating the exact same thing over and over again and attacking minor and very common grammar (though in this case more of a typing) mistakes on an informal discussion board as some sort of evidence of non-intelligence.

    2) & 3) Again, stop acting as though I cannot understand you. This condescending attitude is why people keep calling you a troll, and I'm starting to agree with them. I understand your point perfectly well, and it is asinine. As somebody already pointed out, if Blu-ray is considered an alteration of the original film, then so are the DVDs that are currently available. You insist that viewers cannot have what they want (the original film) short of traveling through time and viewing one of the original 1977 prints in a theater. Then, in the same post, you insist that they already have what they want via a 1993 laserdisc transfer ported onto a non-anamorphic DVD. Well, which is it? You're splitting hairs an contradicting yourself over the meaning of the word "original" in order to pick fights and support your (DID I DO IT RIGHT THAT TIME????) very weak argument. It is possible to enjoy the special editions and still want the original versions, you know, and it is possible to present them both in a high definition format. You don't have to pick sides. We're all fans of the movies here.

    QFT.
  6. Thegoat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
    star 1
    Very well said, especially the last paragraph. Personally, I prefer the special editions overall (with some exception, of course), but I would love a copy of the original Star Wars (1977) restored and remastered because it's the original Star Wars! The original special effects were a large part of what made the film so popular, and it's the version I grew up watching. There's also something definitive about owning the original theatrical version of a film. That said, I support Lucas' decision to release the version that he prefers because it is his right as the artist to do so. Without Lucas, there would be no Star Wars. [face_peace]
    kainee likes this.
  7. Anakin_Darth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2005
    star 2



    Hmmmm, that part sure sounds condescending to me. Don't complain about it, just to turn around and attempt to dish out the same thing. [face_shame_on_you]


    And you just proved my point - short of traveling back in time, you CAN'T see the original, unaltered versions, so the versions that these fanboys are whining about are unattainable. Lucas did his best at giving them what they want, and they STILL bitch. It's gotten past the point of annoying, into the realm of comedy. These people will whine about anything.
    Andy Wylde likes this.
  8. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Let's use common sense. The original versions asked to be released with good quality on the latest home format (Blu-ray) are the cuts released in theaters back in '77, '90, and '83. I assume you know this perfectly well. This is not unattainable. All they need to do is a restoration of the original negative, create a Blu-ray version and sell it (like some companies do to many other titles).

    Now, George is free to not make them available, but that doesn't mean people can't keep asking for them.
  9. Anakin_Darth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2005
    star 2


    Yeah, but these same people often slam Lucas for putting out different versions of the same OT, essentially "milking" (their term of choice) the public, so why is it acceptable when they want it, but when it's a version they don't want, it's terrible? This is why I'm glad he chooses not to appease to these people, they're NEVER happy.


    Besides, you can easily go on Youtube and find the entire OT in 1080p, done by someone. The means are available, if someone wanted it THAT badly, they could convert it themselves. I don't see what all the fuss is about, the versions they want are already available on laserdisc, VHS, and DVD. You could even cut parts of the Blu-Ray out, convert the remaining, untouched pre-SE footage, and splice it in. There are literally so many ways you can do this, but people are lazy, and do nothing but complain.
  10. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    hmm, not always the case, take me, I'm a fully functioning adult, but sometimes make typing errors, due to a mental condition.


  11. _Catherine_ Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2007
    star 4
    Most of the people you're referring to couldn't care less what changes Lucas makes to the movies, as long as the unaltered versions are restored and made available as well. The only reason they're never happy is because Lucas never does the one thing that would make them happy.
  12. JimRaynor55 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2005
    star 3
    The RLM reviews contain an obscene amount of omissions and outright dishonesty. It absolutely floors me when people have to respond to criticism of them in only the mildest terms like "I don't necessarily agree." This is a guy who will nitpick a few seconds-long turbolaser visuals, make up lies about them for two minutes, even as he posts clips that proves his own criticisms wrong. Who thinks that Qui-Gon is an idiot for not walking what could've been dozens or hundreds of miles on foot, instead of taking a few minutes to seek help from a nearby Gungan city. Who keeps harping on his belief that the Trade Federation should've just admitted their wrongdoing to the Senate, screwing themselves over for no one's benefit except Sidious's. Arguments like this are not fair opinions, or even merely wrong. They're so wildly off base that I question anyone who doesn't flatly call them out as nonsense or intentionally mindless trolling.

    This is another one of those overused cliches that nostalgic fans of 1950s-70s movies typically use to put down modern movies. You're absolutely free to not like the story that Lucas told in the prequels. However, it is total denial to claim that Lucas wasn't telling a story, and that he was just throwing out special effects.

    The prequel trilogy has far greater scope, ambition, and depth in its storytelling than the original trilogy. It comments on truth vs. deception, the way that democracies can fall to fascism, father/son relatinships, and more. This is all there, in the movies. The original trilogy's themes about coming of age, and resisting hatred are also in the prequels, and explored in MORE depth.

    ROTJ comes up with a story about Luke (a character with no serious emotional baggage) resisting anger and hatred, in the last part of the Original Trilogy. It shows Palpatine, a guy Luke has no personal history with, egging him on for a few minutes. Constrast this with the prequels, which plant the seeds for Anakin's fall in Episode I, show how he was manipulated and embittered over the years, and brought him full circle in the most tragic way at the end of the trilogy.

    I'm going to have to disagree with you again on this. The types of shots in the prequels looked the same to me; if anything they allowed for greater freedom of movement, as well as FAR greater scale. There is no set in the Original Trilogy that holds a candle to the reactor chamber in the Naboo palace. Nothing comes close to Mustafar, which was a portrayal of pure hell in Star Wars. There are no shots in the Original Trilogy like Obi-Wan standing in that hellish terrain with a few rays of yellow sunlight coming down from behind him, casting him as an angel trying to save Anakin from damnation.

    No Original Trilogy space battle is as large and intricate as the Battle of Coruscant, which from what I've read used MORE models than any previous film. Don't tell me that a matte painting of two fleets at Endor dueling from an extreme distance away was more moving than the huge chaotic slugfest in ROTS. Closer, more detailed shots of the starships at Endor could only fit in a relatively few ships at once.

    Prequel bashers claim that CGI aliens look cartoonish, which some of them are. Still better to me than most of the puppets in the Original Trilogy, which could hardly move. That's the advantage of CGI: while the textures and colors might be a bit off, the capability to animate characters is light years improved from that of th
  13. Sword_Of_Goliath Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 22, 2010
    star 3
    I don't think it would make them happy. Look at how people are over-analyzing the Blu-ray set. They're down to complaining that the debris from certain explosions looks "wrong" or the lightsabers are inconsistent etc. At first they would endlessly complain about the technical specs, then they would run out of steam & go back to complaining about the PT, the merchandising, Lucas's neck & so on. It will never end. He had the bad luck of being incredibly successful at a young age, he'll never live it down :p If he hadn't made SW, none of those people would even care about his work.
  14. Anakin_Darth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2005
    star 2



    Incorrect. He did already give them what they wanted, back in 2006. Just think about it - back in 06, both sides were happy. Some got the SE, some got the original OT, but they *still* complained. Does Lucas have to update the original OT in every new format? No, there's absolutely no obligation to do that, but certain people think Lucas owes them everything, and he doesn't.
    Andy Wylde and kainee like this.
  15. MrFantastic74 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2010
    star 4
    So, back to RLM...

    After having watched TPM in 3D this past weekend, I had an urge to check out the original RLM TPM review again just to see if I still agreed with most of his points. Yes, I still do.

    Before you label me as a brainwashed cultist, I would like to point out that I had similar thoughts about TPM and the PT in general before I ever even heard of RLM. I found that "Plinkett", in his own morbid way, managed to put into words what I previously could not. There had been deficiencies in the films nagging at the dark recesses of my brain, but I could not seem to communicate them properly until Plinkett pointed them out.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with EVERYTHING he said, and in some cases I found myself saying "OK, that's a bit harsh, Pinkett- I would let that one slide". For the most part, however, I think he was spot on.

    The difference between me and him is that I (shockingly) do not hate the prequels. I don't think they are good movies (well, ROTS wasn't too bad), but I do have a certain affection for them because they are Star Wars and they helped bring back SW for a new generation. I just wish they were better movies... and yes, I know that calling these movies "bad" is entirely subjective opinion. You're entitled to your opinions, and I'm entitled to mine.

    A reboot would be nice, though. One can dream.

  16. MandalorianDuchess Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2010
    star 3
    Although I love the SW movies just the way they are, I actually think it would be kind of awesome if they did an animated version of them. You know, they could re-use much or all of the original dialogue, and just animate around the original voice performances of the original actors. The essence of the movies would remain there; but things like pacing and some visual elements could be brought up to speed, so to speak, to bring the whole saga up to the 21st century.

    I think it has the potential to be beyond awesome - though I'm not going to hold my breath...
  17. MrFantastic74 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2010
    star 4
    That would be a good start, but I would rather see a different story; a different plot and a different set of films altogether, generated and realised by a different creative team. But as I said, one can dream.
  18. MandalorianDuchess Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2010
    star 3
    Ah, it now sounds like what you're describing is basically an Expanded Universe movie. No, that's not something I would ever really want to see... sorry.
    Andy Wylde likes this.
  19. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Boring dialogue is a matter of opinion, but what do you mean with repetitiveness of how the dialogue scenes were filmed?

    False. He was telling a story, whether you like it or not. Special effects were there, just like in the originals.

    No, not everything was bluescreen. In fact, the prequels used much more models, real sets, props, etc than the Original Trilogy.

    No, that's not a point, and it's far from a fact. That's a matter of personal opinion. As an exaple, I care for some of the characters, the same way I cared for some of the characters in the OT.

    False. For TPM, it was Qui-Gon. AotC, Anakin. And RotS, Anakin. Overall arc, Anakin.

    As you said, it's just your opinion.

    As a fan, I don't get them. And I find them far from funny.
    Andy Wylde likes this.
  20. Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    Another thread about RLM. Awesome. He's got a review of 'Indiana Jones & The Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull' out now. Haven't seen it yet.

    Let's see how far this thread gets before it's locked due to arguments that degenerate into racial, sectarian & political issues. He's just one guy with an opinion who bothered to do something interesting with it. Doesn't prove anything about the PT one way or another, except that there's a heap of people on these boards who still get their panties in a bunch when the criticism of the PT gets a bit too much. Various media & comedy shows have been using the PT as a punching bag for over a decade, what's the difference with this latest web-based attack?

    "Oh, but, but, but people are using his arguments as PROOF that the PT is bad!!!"

    So what? There's plenty out there that hate the PT & don't need any proof to justify their positions, just as plenty love it & don't need proof either. I spent my childhood defending Star Wars from other kids who thought it was stupid, & that I was stupid for loving it so much. Nearly three decades later, here I am, on a SW discussion board.
    TaradosGon and kainee like this.
  21. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    I argued this same point on another site not that long ago. I was challenged to provide even one example of inaccuracy in the TPM review, by those apparently supremely confident in the idea that their hero Stoklasa could not possibly have made even one mistake ( these are people whose false confidence is belied by the fact that they outright refuse to read your rebuttal ).

    The one I chose was the aforementioned ship-getting-hit thing. After a mixture of denying what's shown in the clip and asserting that the hits somehow don't "count" if they're not shown from a POV outside the ship, one of the RLM followers grudgingly conceded the point. But then the others chose not to give up and kept arguing the point, prompting the one who gave in to say, "I conceded too soon."

    I guess it's comforting to live in denial.
    Andy Wylde and kainee like this.
  22. Sword_Of_Goliath Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 22, 2010
    star 3
    You dropped $15 bucks & over 2 hours of your life for a bad movie you have "a certain affection" for? Maybe you like the film more than you're willing to admit...I certainly would never waste time/money on a film I thought wasn't any good, I won't even waste time watching a bad movie for free on television, there's too much else to do.
    Andy Wylde likes this.
  23. StarWarrior92 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2011
    star 2
    I don't know much about RLM, but I was just wondering.....do they even have any reviews over Eps 4-6?
  24. Sword_Of_Goliath Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 22, 2010
    star 3
    I doubt they ever will, those films are 100% flawless & were made when Lucas was briefly a genius. I guess Alzheimer's got to him or something :p

    Andy Wylde and Mzukiller like this.
  25. GeneralCeel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2005
    star 2
    "All they need to do is a restoration of the original negative, create a Blu-ray version and sell it (like some companies do to many other titles)."



    Not true. Significant, costly, restoration work has been done (on multiple occasions) to get to the visual quality we now see in the Blu Ray editions. There is a reason why most movies of the same age that were simply slapped on to Blu Ray discs don't look as good as Star Wars does... they never got the attention to detail that the Star Wars films got.

    Is there really enough demand for "perfect" versions of the "original" theatrical cuts to warrant the time and cost?

    And more importantly.... will it really satisfy the people begging for it?
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