PT Red Letter Media and other Prequel Reviews

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Obi-Wan McCartney, Feb 12, 2012.

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  1. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    What the story is about? Well, on the surface, the film's plot is about saving the planet of Naboo from occupation. Overarchingly, though, it details to us how Palpatine came into power and how our three main leads -- Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Padmé -- met. It's similar to ANH in that regard, although quite different as well in that Qui-Gon has a larger focus than Ben Kenobi.

    I don't find Padmé's behavior odd, to be honest. She's mature for her age and has worked as the head of a largely peaceful planet with many advisors but she is naive -- and the film points this out not only by having her fall into Sidious' trap, but having Sidious himself remark upon it. I would say, too, that the fact that Palpatine is her Senator is also a bonus point in his favor since Padmé is shown to be quite dependent on advisors as well.

    Likewise, I don't see any issue with the Neimoidians -- there are plenty of people with powerful armies or corporations who are complete cowards.

    My point earlier, though, was simply to say that I don't see anything wrong with pointing out that RLM doesn't understand the film's story. He himself says this is so.
    Darth Chiznuk likes this.
  2. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Okay, so for you it is about the plot. That's only one possibility of many.

    No matter what you think of those complains, it isn't like Plinkett is the only person in the world who has issues with Padmés or the Neimoidians behaviors.
    Btw., if Padmé were a naive politician like John Sheridan I wouldn't have a problem. But she is almost beyond naive to the point of being unbelievable (to me at least).

    Really? Can you give me a (non hereditary) example?
    I think someone who is as easily threatened as the Neimoidians would have a very hard time in Business.

    That fact doesn't make his opinion any less valid than anybody else's.
    I didn't understand a certain novel of Haruki Murakami either and thought it was gibberish full of oedipal critic bait. But I did try to understand it and therefore I think I am perfectly capable of giving a valid opinion on it.
    Sometimes the Emperor really is naked and then it is okay to mention that fact.
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  3. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    I'm not saying he's the only one. I'm merely stating why I don't agree. But I don't believe that what Padmé did was unbelievably naive -- she was immensely frustrated by the lack of a Senate response when she pleaded her case and thus fell back on the advice of an older, experienced mentor who also happened to be her system's appointed Senator. Not so very naive, in my opinion. Especially given her age.

    I think some of the executives of the private military company Blackwater are most assuredly cowards.

    Nope, and I never said his opinion was any less valid. But I don't think there's anything wrong with saying that he doesn't understand the story when he himself admits this is so. That was my point. You stated in your original post:

    "You yourself said "It's obvious from a lot of the statements he makes that he doesn't understand the story or scope of the films." which is shorthand for "You don't understand, therefore you are wrong" without any explanation or definition given what Star Wars is supposedly about."

    And I don't think it's necessarily fair to say that that poster was trying to say that RLM was "wrong." All the original poster said was:

    "It's obvious from a lot of the statements he makes that he doesn't understand the story or scope of the films."

    Which is true enough since RLM said he doesn't understand the story. The poster didn't call RLM an idiot or say anything about RLM's opinion being less valid.
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  4. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Did RLM really say he didn't understand the "scope" of the film? I don't think I ever heard him say that. I also don't recall a statement about not understanding the general story (which is really easy to understand anyway), just the logic of the plot. What he said once was that he doesn't think the fall of Anakin Skywalker was a story worth telling (I disagree btw.) but that has nothing to do with understanding it or not.

    But maybe my memory is fuzzy on the details. I've only seen the reviews twice I think.
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  5. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    If you don't have a basic understanding of a topic, then u can't make an intelligent opinion on it. For instance in his review of ROTS he said the Jedi should just test the Chancellor for a midichlorian count. The Jedi don't have that kind of authority in the PT, hence plinkett does not understand the political climate of the movies.
  6. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Like I said before: Even if he doesn't understand certain aspects that doesn't mean he can't give an intelligent opinion.

    Errors can happen to anyone and besides maybe he understands the political climate different than you do. The Jedi did after all try to kidnap Palpatine as well (What were the charges against him? Being a Sith?). So yea, the Jedi enforcing their will outside of legal jurisdiction did actually happen.
    sinkie likes this.
  7. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Kidnap? Nope. Arrest. For treason (inciting a war against the Republic).

    Really - where some of these "theories" come from boggle the mind.
  8. _Catherine_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2007
    star 4
    I kind of doubt the Jedi have the legal authority to arrest the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic based purely on hearsay, for a crime that they have no evidence was ever committed.
    Darth_Pevra likes this.
  9. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    No they don't, but they have to do it unless they want Palpatine to act first.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  10. _Catherine_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2007
    star 4
    I'm not criticizing them for it, just pointing out that if the Jedi have no compunctions about arresting the Supreme Chancellor at lightsaberpoint (with no evidence of his crimes and no evidence that a crime had even been committed) and then attempting to execute him without a trial after he appeared to be already beaten, there's no reason they should have been squeamish about illegally checking his midichlorian count.
  11. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Well he's too dangerous to be kept alive, the movie also deleted a very important scene, Palpatine recorded his conversation with Windu and used it as the evidence of Jedi's treason.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Mar 7, 2013
  12. Jarren_Lee-Saber Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2008
    star 4
    They were in their legal rights to arrest him and bring him to trail. (remember when Mace says "The senate will decide your fate") They would have been stepping out of bounds if they tried to kill him right off if he came peacefully. But once he pulled out his lightsaber and killed two of them, he was free to be executed.
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  13. Jarren_Lee-Saber Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2008
    star 4
    Sorry - double post.
    Last edited by Jarren_Lee-Saber, Mar 7, 2013
  14. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    I didn't see any evidence for Palpatines supposed crimes (which were, exactly?). Don't get me wrong, I actually agree with Windus course of action, but it is still illegal.
  15. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Jedi are allowed to convict someone (the chancellor of the Republic no less) when they have no evidence whatsoever and without alerting CorSec first? I doubt that. I really doubt that.

    Even the killing of the two Jedi happened in self defense. They were acting outside of Republic jurisdiction and threatened Palpatine with lethal weapons. It was completely in his rights to react accordingly.
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Mar 8, 2013
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  16. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Treason against the Republic- by conspiring with Dooku to start a war. Dooku was "the apprentice Sith", Palpatine the Master.
    Orchestrating the invasion of Naboo in TPM.

    That's just the movies.
  17. _Catherine_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2007
    star 4
    Remember, though, that the only reason the Jedi have to suspect that this "Darth Sidious" person even exists is because Dooku told Obi-Wan on Geonosis for some ineffable reason. For all they know, Dooku could have been the Sith Master who trained Maul and was playing them all for fools the whole time. Even if the Jedi take Dooku at his word, however, the only evidence they have connecting Sidious and Palpatine is Anakin's word that Palpatine confessed to him. So the only evidence they have that Darth Sidious even exists is hearsay, and the only evidence they have that he is the same person as Palpatine is even more hearsay. Not the most watertight legal argument for arresting the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber and Darth_Pevra like this.
  18. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    They don't have proof for all that! They'd need holo recordings, witness testimonies and the like.

    The only thing they have is Palpys words that he is a Sith which is flimsy proof at best (for being a Sith) because Anakin is only one witness and affiliated with the Jedi order.
  19. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Labyrinth of Evil added a few more bits- including a recording of Nute Gunray saying "I will see to it personally, Lord Sidious". The Jedi told Palpatine about this. Palpatine said "Do whatever you can to hunt this Lord Sidious down." They'd nearly done so when the Battle of Coruscant happened, Palpatine was "kidnapped" and the trail went cold.

    That's books though.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  20. TOSCHESTATION Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2003
    star 4
    Hmm....I think that this rather conveniently-timed 'kidnapping' of Palpatine - when they were so close to tracking Sidious down - should have raised some red-flags to the Jedi Council.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  21. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Like you said, that's only in the books. Stoklasa mentioned he would explicitly ignore the EU in his reviews.
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  22. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Thing is, when a movie starts "in the middle of the action" it may be necessary to have some info as to what happened before it.
  23. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    That's not Stoklasas fault.
    If you think not enough exposition has been given, address the person who made the movie. Blockbuster movies are made so that you can understand them without having a "guide" like you do at the opera.
    V-2 likes this.
  24. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Which one is higher canon? LoE or CW?
  25. _Catherine_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2007
    star 4
    They're equally valid. I think the discrepancies between them were ironed out in The New Essential Guide to Characters. Not sure though.
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