PT Red Letter Media and other Prequel Reviews

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Obi-Wan McCartney, Feb 12, 2012.

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  1. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    He heard Anakin's background story from Shmi, he didn't talk it up because Anakin had not died/became Vader yet in EP II.

    Agree with the Jedi's help, does not mean he agree with the choice to become a Jedi, especially after Anakin's "end" in 19BBY.
  2. KilroyMcFadden Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 3
    My line of questions established that you are unwilling to commit to the meaning of Owen words. I'm comfortable letting the reading public decide what that means and don't feel like I need more follow up to make my point.
  3. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    I think you pretty much have made it
  4. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Owen's words simply meant he didn't agree with Anakin's choice, and later it was revealed in the OT, with the most logical explanation, the PT did nothing to contradict it. I don't know why it has to come with a series of questions.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Mar 24, 2013
  5. KilroyMcFadden Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 3
    *shrug* You refused to take a stance on the meaning of Owen's words. I can copy past the question again if you are interested in taking another crack at it.
  6. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Again, it was you people who refused to believe the whole question is solved in OT and didn't contradict with PT.

    Theories like Owen didn't know Anakin enough so he could not give opinion, Owen should be proud of Anakin for being a Jedi Knight, Watto would throw Anakin away and just let Shmi die are all some fan theories which didn't make much sense. And you guys are keep making new ones whenever the previous one was proved wrong.
  7. KilroyMcFadden Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 3
    What I, and many of the silent readers think that means is that you still do not wish to commit to what you think Owen's words mean. I'm comfortable with that.
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  8. Jcuk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    You haven't proved anything wrong. You clearly can't see discrepancies between the story told in the OT and the one told in the PT. You try to justify it with convoluted rubbish, (for the life of me I can't see why) that just becomes more and more ridiculous the more you try. Because for some reason you think your making an Intelligent point but, I'm sorry to say, you just aren't. End of discussion for me.
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  9. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    It's not a vague line. Owen is said to have felt that Anakin should have stayed on Tatooine, not gotten involved, and not followed Obi Wan on a damn foolish idealistic crusade.

    Obviously he can't be referring to 9-year-old Anakin because:
    He didn't know him.
    Anakin was a slave and much better off leaving Tatooine as a free boy.
    Anakin didn't follow Obi Wan, he followed Qui Gon.
    However, it could be said that the latter half of Qui Gon's mission was idealistic. At a stretch it could be said to be a crusade. Most of it was indisputably foolish. It's a little bit of a stretch though.

    Obviously Owen can't be referring to AotC Anakin because:
    He didn't know him.
    Anakin was visiting Tatooine to rescue his mother. If he were to stay home, that would mean either not leaving the temple on Corouscant (and not rescuing his mother and never meeting Owen), or spontaneously deciding to leave the Jedi to become a moisture farmer.
    Anakin was visiting Tatooine against explicit orders from Obi Wan.

    BUT
    He did leave Tatooine to follow Obi Wan (even if he was ordered not to) which was damned foolish. He was, strictly speaking, following Padmé at that point, but it's less of a stretch than the 9 year old option.

    It is possible, however unlikely, that Owen was referring to off-screen material because there's that seriously vague dialogue with Beru, ...there's too much of his father in him/that's what I'm afraid of. Since the PT is pretty explicit that Owen never knew Anakin, except for one terse (but admittedly emotional) encounter, it can be assumed that Owen's opinion of Anakin must be based on interactions with Ben Kenobi - especially if you subscribe to the notion that Owen and Beru know the identity of Darth Vader. I prefer to think that Owen would simply prefer a humble life for his nephew rather than the life of a Jedi.

    Owen and Ben have clearly formed opinions of each other, both relate a caricature of the other to Luke. 'Old Ben' Kenobi is a local character within young Luke's frame of reference. They must have had some degree of off-screen interaction, even indirectly, otherwise Kenobi is telling some pretty black lies.

    If only the prequel trilogy matched up to the originals then these issues wouldn't need to be endlessly discussed. ;)
  10. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    In The Life and Legend of Obi-Wan Kenobi- we get to see some of that off-screen interaction. Short as the encounter with Anakin was, it apparently made a big impression on Owen.
  11. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
  12. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    Um, wasn't where when? I don't understand your question. I stated Cliegg was the one to free Shmi so Owen as Cliegg son could reasonably assume that had Anakin still been with his mother at the time then he could have come with her to the Lars homestead. You don't find it plausible that a human being after hearing stories about his step-brother from the boy's mother and knowing that he came to a bad end couldn't wish that the situation could have been different? Could have wished that the boy had stayed with his mother and then came and lived with them? Made a simpler life for himself? Okay...
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  13. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    When Anakin was faced with his choice, Owen's father had not yet met his mother. So, he was forced with the choice that I have described.

    And yes, I still find your explanation to be completely implausible,
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Mar 24, 2013
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  14. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    Ugh, again all that matters is what's in the movie. Anakin can choice to stay home with his mother or go with Qui-Gon.

    Obi-Wan's line is in no way contradicted by what we see in the PT. Anakin fought in the Clone Wars, check. Anakin and Owen had different ideals, check. Owen was upset with Obi-Wan for Anakin's end, check. Anyway I've stated this opinion about a dozen times and now I'm done.
  15. KilroyMcFadden Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 3
    I can't help but read this and think:

    Sums it up perfectly.
  16. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    He never said the crusade happened right after Anakin left.

    We've been go over this. Why do you have to meet a person to give your opinion? Shmi would surely tell him about how was the young Anakin.

    Anakin was already free before he decided to leave, and did he, end up as a free man, or Darth Vader?

    Explained before.


    Again, Shmi already told him about Anakin, why can't he give opinion of him?

    Already explained before, he said stay HERE, not HOME.

    Isn't it what Owen was trying to do? If Owen thought become a Jedi is good, why was he stopping Luke to hear anything from Obi Wan?

    Again, it never mentioned, the crusade happened right after Anakin left.

    Owen never met him much, but he heard Anakin surely from both Shmi and Obi Wan, that's enough for him to give an opinion.

    He knew either Anakin was dead or became Vader, it's totally logical for him to think Anakin should not leave

    Yes, what does that have to do with the topic?

    If only some people watch both OT and PT more carefully and add less of their own theory, we don't have to continue this.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Mar 24, 2013
  17. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    I always feel so strange about some people's thoughts.

    Do you have to meet someone personally to give him your opinion? Owen heard Anakin from Shmi and Obi Wan, especially the end of Anakin no matter which version.

    I heard a guy who was quite passionate, dreamed to be a hero, he went to the battlefield and died or become some monster, I have to take care of his kid, can't I say he should've stayed here, even if I have met him before?
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  18. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    So it should be something like

    ?

    So

    Owen could never give an opinion since he only met Anakin once, even after he heard the story of him and had to take care of his kid?

    Or

    Owen should be proud of Anakin for being a Jedi, even though in OT he was trying to keep Luke from walking into his father's path?

    Or

    Watto should throw Anakin into the street let him die, let Shmi be so upset and refuse to work for him, end her life, directly or indirectly caused 2 lives' death without gaining any benefit but lose 2 workers who could make him profit, rather than hire Anakin to make him more money?
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Mar 24, 2013
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  19. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    @Slowpokeking you're correct about the home/here thing. I retract that line, but not the rest. Sorry to keep repeating old arguments, but you're hindered by hindsight bias again.

    There's a familiarity and back-story described in ANH that is contradicted in the PT, that is the point.
    Last edited by V-2, Mar 24, 2013
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  20. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    It only has some vague line in OT, some people just have their own theory upon it.

    Let me ask some question. Can you honestly tell me, base on OT, why Owen didn't want Luke to become a Jedi and walk into his father's path? Because he didn't want Luke to be a hero, to fight for justice and peace and it was Luke's wish, or because he knew Anakin had died in the war/became Darth Vader so he didn't want Luke to die in young age or become something like Vader? Which one makes more sense?
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Mar 24, 2013
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  21. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
  22. Jarren_Lee-Saber Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2008
    star 4
    Let's break this whole debate down:
    Lucas made Star Wars, even if he had basic plot points for the Saga, he didn't have the details. So simple exposition was used to give a basic understanding.
    Then, he made six films.Each one of them changed what people thought about the previous one.
    ESB revealed Vader was Luke's father.
    ROTJ revealed that Leia was his sister and, uh, "a certain point of view" where long dialogue was used to explain away misinformation in ANH.
    TPM gave us Amakin as a good boy, explained the Force had a scientific background and wasn't just a hokey religion with magic.
    ATOC showed Owen for the first time (creating a SLIGHT inconsistency that I never even noticed until now!)
    ROTS gave us the discrepancy of the Twin's birth.
    Once again, its up to us to decide in our minds weather we prefer the exposition or the visuals.


    Another thing, EVERYONE makes theories, both sensible & outlandish, for inconsistencies. Most people try to invent some way to make it that both versions are applicable, and that usually works. (which is why I was annoyed with the Twins birth because there IS no way to reconcile it) Others pick one and hold that to be gospel truth.
    Guess what? You're all right! Whatever WORKS for you, works for you. That's the whole fun about fantasy - fantasizing & discussing.
    This business of saying "you're wrong" "no you're wrong" or claiming your opposition's theories are stupid and just dumb apologetic is frankly f*****g annoying! Can't we just discuss theories, explain why the will & won't work, and leave out the Ad Hominum attacks?
  23. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    This thread has run its course, so off-topic its not even funny.

    Keep up with the boorish behavior & bans will soon follow.
    Last edited by SithStarSlayer, Mar 25, 2013
  24. Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    star 2
    The answer to your question is: No.





    Do not start a new discussion when the previous thread was locked. In the future, if you would like to revisit a locked topic, you may PM me to request that it be re-opened. This will not be, but feel free to discuss RLM wherever their videos are hosted. ~Sx3
    Last edited by SithStarSlayer, Apr 27, 2013
  25. TheMadHatter Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2009
    star 4
    was this supposed to be a PM to Sith Star Slayer? :p

    Mod Edit:
    I'm not sure.:p ~Sx3
    Last edited by SithStarSlayer, Apr 27, 2013
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