Lit Red Sith darkside inclination: Genetic or Cultural?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by darklordoftech, Jul 17, 2013.

  1. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    Sep 30, 2012
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    Thank you, Abel. That explains so much.
    Quick question: Was the Rakata meeting the Sith species a retcon to reconcile pre-6900 BBY Sith stuff with the Dark Jedi not arriving until 6900 BBY?
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Jul 24, 2013
  2. LivingJediDream Jedi Master

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    Is Vivec a Sorcerer of Tund? Is the Unity the Tower?
  3. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    Sep 30, 2012
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    You know how the Celestials taught Force-use to the Kwa who taught it to the Jed'aii and Rakata who taught it to the Red Sith? I wonder if anybody taught the Red Sith Force-use before the Rakata showed up...
  4. Havac Former Moderator

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    Fantastic stuff, Abel. I remain impressed by the depth of thought you put into your work. Where do you see Bane and Sidious fitting into this philosophical scheme?
    darklordoftech likes this.
  5. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    We know that Sidious thought of Ruin as the founder of the Sith (Sidious's thoughts in the TPM novelization refer to Ruin as the founder of the Sith). That might be relevant. Then again, it could just be a case of the novelization not acknowledging the EU.
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Jul 24, 2013
  6. LivingJediDream Jedi Master

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    Are you sure that wasn't Darth Maul?
  7. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    It says that Sidious was thinking about the history of the Sith. When Bane is introduced, Sidious reflects upon how Bane, unlike Maul, understood the value of patience.
  8. General Immodet Jedi Master

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    I wonder in what way the Red Sith were technologically evolved before the exiled Jedi landed on Korriban.
    Did they already develop space travel? I think so, but it never has been confirmed.
    Was Ziost already colonolized?
  9. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    Actually, they did have space travel and had colonized Ziost. Evil Never Dies and Book of Sith both state it.
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  10. General Immodet Jedi Master

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    So, how much more space did the Dark Jedi conquer after their arrival on Korriban?
    Did they expand the Sith Empire much?
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  11. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    I'm under the impression that the Sith Empire underwent massive expansion during the 2000 years of Dark Jedi rule.
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  12. General Immodet Jedi Master

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    Probably. Have you ever read JJM's Lost Tribe of the Sith?
    In it, the crew of the Omen consist of a Houk. So, that means the homeplanet of the Houk must have been conquered by the Sith Empire.
    Don't ask me what their homeplanet is... ;)
  13. Hansa Jedi Padawan

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    Jan 19, 2013
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    I was under the impression that some spacefaring species got trapped in Sith space due to the Stygean Caldera nebula, which is hard to navigate. Some Tionese travelled there and couldn't navigate out, reintroducing Humans to the population. I assume some Houks got stranded there as well.
  14. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    The existence of a pre-Hundred Year Darkness Sith Empire makes me wonder how significant the Hundred Year Darkness still is.
  15. Hansa Jedi Padawan

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    Well, it brought in a new philosophy. Wasn't the Sith code drafted by the Exiles?
  16. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    It was, but the Jedi and Sith codes are just poems. Philosophies can exist without them.
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Jul 25, 2013
  17. Hansa Jedi Padawan

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    Well, they do guide their actions. The Sith code does encourage certain things within the Sith society.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

    It tells the Sith to ignore peaceful actions and empower themselves with passions such as anger, hatred, love and lust. That will lead them to strength, that will bring them closer to victory and freedom. Without the code, a Sith would be free to choose whatever path is appealing. With the code, an order is made.
  18. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    There are many ways to create rules and laws besides codes.

    This all makes me very curious about the Hundred-Year Darkness. How about you?
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Jul 25, 2013
  19. Hansa Jedi Padawan

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    It does, I have always been curious about that conflict. From the very start since the Golden Age of the Sith comic book, I have been curious about what transpired during the birth of the Sith Empire. In recent times, I've been even more curious, with the release of TOR and what not. The release of Book of Sith makes me yet more curious.

    I wonder how it all started and ended. Especially how the Dark Jedi were regarded as religious dieties. Not the when or why, but how.

    On the code, laws and regulations are a societal thing, not a religious thing. Religions need codes to function. Short laws that make their tenets. When I say Sith, I mean the order, not the society. :D
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  20. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    Sep 30, 2012
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    Maybe there already was a code.
    Of particular interest to me is that Syn wrote in Book of Sith that the Red Sith already had Terentateks, yet in Dawn of the Jedi, Quan-Jang creates Terentas. That, among many other things Syn wrote, make me think that Syn is lying about the contributions of the Red Sith.
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Jul 25, 2013
  21. Hansa Jedi Padawan

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    And maybe there was. We don't know, but I like to think that the Dark Jedi engineered the Sith code to challenge the Jedi code they had been raised with.

    I haven't read the Book of Sith for a while...

    But the Terentas are quite different from the Terentateks. Perhaps the Red Sith had Terentateks, and Syn made them more powerful. Like the Massassi. They were already mutated beings engineered by Sith alchemy before Exar Kun ever laid hands on them.
  22. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    What is the difference?
  23. Hansa Jedi Padawan

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    Terentas are smaller. They don't seem to make force users weaker. They are just... out of cage, deadly animals.
  24. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    I meant to imply that Terentateks are further mutated, not just renamed.
  25. Halagad_Ventor Star Wars Author - SWRPG Designer

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    You're very welcome, DLOT.


    And regarding your questin, if you mean Sith holocrons and space travel, then yes. But the degree or amount of Rakata technology to which the Sith species had access remains ambiguous.

    I really appreciate the kind words, Hav.


    Yeah, those guys. The problem, really, is that Bane doesn’t seem to be an especially deep thinker, and Palpatine is so deep that it’s almost impossible to know what he’s really thinking. They both can probably safely be categorized as sophists, though the former accidentally and the latter intentionally.

    That said, I did hash this out with Dan a bit while he was working on Book of Sith. I suggested that the way to buttress Bane’s largely-unexplained faith in a plan (The Rule of Two) which on the surface seems significantly flawed and without many fail safes (like extra potential apprentices, which I believe was also added to Bane’s section) was to give him a messianic complex. He is absolutely positive that he and his plan are the saviors of the Sith, with the concept of the Sith’ari serving for him as a convenient short-hand. (This despite the fact that the heart of his plan is about his own ultimate expendability—and Zannah’s, and Cognus', and so on, and so forth, nigh perpetually—seemingly disproving that Bane actually embodies perfection a la the Sith'ari ... rather than, say, his being one component of a metaphysical conglomeration, similar to the Bahai faith's Manifestations of God.)

    And in that sense, if we can construct a rational picture of Bane’s thought, it seems to me that, most charitably, we might say this glaring loophole in his logic is what seemed to finally bother him in his later years enough that he decided to screw the plan, screw over Zannah, and pursue the wholly typical Sith path of narcissism via his immortality ambitions, thereby fully embracing his commitment to his belief in being the Sith’ari. (Otherwise, more uncharitably, Bane’s overarching philosophy simply seems like a disordered free-for-all between id, ego and superego).

    Palpatine, on the other hand, has been depicted in so many ways, he can be difficult to nail down. But he seems to buy into Bane’s belief on some level, insofar as he thinks he is likewise the Sith’ari (at least in Book of Sith) by virtue of fulfilling the Rule of Two. He thus seems, like Bane, also inclined to a kind reverse messianism, i.e. “Once more, the Sith will rule the galaxy … and we shall have peace.” This could be a line for Anakin’s sake, of course, but then the Dark Empire Sourcebook really pushes hard for the dark side theocracy angle as the true face of Palpatine.

    But, when you get down to it, it’s hard to really argue with Sidious’ quintessential quote as the most revealing about his character: “Power! Unlimited power!” So its safest to say Palpatine subscribes to a kind of dark-side-informed realism where his connection to the Force is like a sixth sense which just happens to grant him a *deeper* insight into reality than the average person. That would make him not that different from Plagueis (and hence, perhaps explaining the "Science of Darkness" stuff from the Dark Side Sourcebook), but with a more "earthly" emphasis, especially as interpolated from his blatantly Machiavelian and Sun Tzu-style political philosophies -- hello, Uueg Tching.

    I think that explanation lends Palpatine most easily to the variety of depictions we've seen. In the end, he's simply the archetypal Sith narcissist and opportunist with no permanent loyalty to any creed save his selfish instincts.