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Lit Red Sith darkside inclination: Genetic or Cultural?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by darklordoftech, Jul 17, 2013.

  1. LivingJediDream Force Ghost

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    Jul 7, 2010
    star 4
    It's nice to see this philosophical thought put into Star Wars by those behind writing the EU, given its Campbellian origins. It's part of the reason why the NJO series was and is so enjoyable.
  2. darklordoftech Chosen One

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    Sep 30, 2012
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    DOTJ makes me want a John and Jan edition of TOTJ.
  3. Havac Former Moderator

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    Sep 29, 2005
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    As someone with a very limited experience with philosophy, I think you could argue that there's a certain dialectical slant to Bane's thinking -- an upwards spiral or zigzag created by a constant state of dualistic conflict. You could also make the case that the structure of his Order comes out of a sort of game theory approach to the problem of power distribution and cooperation. Despite the religious overtones of Bane in JvS -- which I think the messiah complex diagnosis fits -- it seems that Bane's religious respect for the dark side may cover the fact that he thinks about the Force primarily in political and economic terms. His belief that the Force is diluted by its embodiment in many vessels leads him to treat the Force as a resource, and he structures his Order based on economic and political ideas rather than fundamentally spiritual or philosophical ones. Though I do wonder if there might not be a touch of determinism or teleology in his belief that the dark side will triumph if only its acolytes will stop killing each other. I'd be very interested to see, at some point, a fully determinist, fatalist Sith.
  4. darklordoftech Chosen One

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    Sep 30, 2012
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    I wonder whether or not such a thing is possible.
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  5. LivingJediDream Force Ghost

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    Wouldn't Cronal qualify? Of course, he wasn't a Sith.
  6. StarWarsFan91 Force Ghost

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    Oct 14, 2008
    star 4
    I was looking on the wookipedia recently, and i noticed that it said on the Sith (species) page, that they had glowing yellow eyes. However i don't remember Rath in DoTJ having yellow eyes.

    So is yellow eyes supposed to naturally be apart of who they are, or is it only because of dark side corruption, and Sith who are not darksiders, will not have these yellow eyes?

    Im leaning to the yellow eyes being simply because of corruption, because the Sith in DoTJ don't have them.

    Though, if yellow eyes of Sith are a result of dark side corruption, does that mean that all sith hybrids have yellow eyes because they are a result of mixing dark jedi with sith, and were able to be created because of sith alchemy?
    Last edited by StarWarsFan91, Jul 29, 2013
  7. Halagad_Ventor Star Wars Author - SWRPG Designer

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    That's a nice way to put it, at least insofar as giving his early perspective (per philosophical precedent, let's call this Early Bane) the veneer of some solid ground. Being fundamentally inclined--in fact--to political and economic considerations seems to suggest a more pragmatic approach much like Palpatine's. The only problem is Early Bane seems to be outright contradicted by Later Bane's thoughts and actions, in which he himself subverts the philosophy that was ostensibly guiding him in his youth. This, coupled with the critique that his early philosophy about having only two Sith (as opposed to, say, even three) is supremely susceptible to the most basic pragmatic considerations -- apprentice fails/is killed/flees/accidentally dies/goes insane/is incapacitated after years of training, and similarly with the master (which is precisely what does happen in Dynasty of Evil)--hardly seem pragmatic at all in that light.

    In this sense, the "blind faith" or messianic aspect of Bane's philosophy seems the most fundamental to giving the full spectrum of beliefs of this historically pivotal Sith some intellectual force. After all, his superficially ridiculous plan *did* work, and renders the possibility of its wrongness indemonstrable at least and ludicrously (even supernaturally) prescient at best. Otherwise, to quote Missy Elliott, we would rightfully mockingly ask: "Why you act dumb, like 'Uh, duh.'"
    Jedi Merkurian, Gorefiend and Havac like this.
  8. darklordoftech Chosen One

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    Sep 30, 2012
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    Has anyone else noticed the similarities between "Je'daii" and "Jen'jidai"? I wonder what they mean...
  9. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    Feb 17, 2004
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    Je'daii is derived from a Bendu phrase meaning "mystic center." Jen'jidai means "Dark Jedi" in the Sith language.
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  10. darklordoftech Chosen One

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    Sep 30, 2012
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    Looks like the Bendu and Red Sith were in contact at some point...
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  11. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    On Tython, they were. But Jen'jidai is just the Sith taking the term "Jedi" and pronouncing it in their language as "Jidai" with their word for dark, "jen" prefixed to it. This is seen in "Jen'ari" meaning Dark Lord, as compared to "Sith'ari" meaning "Sith Lord."
  12. darklordoftech Chosen One

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    Sep 30, 2012
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    Interesting that both languages use apostrophies for prefixes and both languages use "ai" in place of "i".
  13. General Immodet Force Ghost

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    Dec 5, 2012
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    Bok (the Morgukai) always used "Jedai" as well.
  14. darklordoftech Chosen One

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    Sep 30, 2012
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    There's more evidence of Red Sith - Je'daii contact: the Je'daii had Terentas and Syn claims that the Red Sith already had Terentateks when the Exiles showed up.
  15. darklordoftech Chosen One

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    Sep 30, 2012
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    edit: wrong thread
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Jan 31, 2015
  16. Jedi Merkurian ST Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

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    Off-topic, @Halagad_Ventor wins this thread for having any knowledge whatsoever of the Baha'i Faith :cool:=D=

    As far as Sith philosophy and why Darth Bane went on to seek immortality, the answer can be found in Anakin Skywalker's observation in RotS:

    The Sith think only of themselves.

    As a youthful Dark Lord, Bane might've considered the notion of self-sacrifice in the name of "the greater evil." But as he grew more powerful in the dark side, his thinking simply evolved. At some point, he probably thought "Stand aside and let someone else rule the galaxy? Screw that!"
    Gamiel likes this.
  17. Darth_Dreadwar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2010
    star 5
    I don't think Bane's desires for immortalty conflict with his selfless reverence of the dark side. Due to his messiah complex, he would believe he is a sort of Sith antichrist (the Sith'ari) to his Satanic god (the dark side), and as such serve it with religious fervor and a rare thing among Sith: faith.

    Of course he would have been willing to lay down his life for the preservation of his unholy lineage, but towards the end of his life his beliefs change, but not to the degree they ever fail to mesh with his prior and cogent stance. He is the Sith messiah. Of course he alone, not just the Order of the Sith Lords he created, must be the dark side's chosen vessel through which his god will act, and thus he views his newfound desire for immortality as something selfless, and as inevitable to succeed as his Rule of Two.