Referential Dilogue from TPM that helped fuel the bashing.

"1. Yipee "
I never cared for yipee myself but that's because I thought it was just, well, stupid.

"2. No wait, ummm, your under arrest."

Personally I thought that was kind of funny. I don't necessarily see to much of an "Earthly" connection though. I'm pretty certian they arrest people in the GFFA.

"3. Roger, Roger... "

I absolutly agree with you on that one. Every time I see that I cringe because my mind is filled with images from Airplane!. That's where the joke came from...
"over Over,
roger Roger
vector Victor"

What's next?
Mace: Surely the sith can't win
Yoda: Win they can. And Shirley calling me stop.

Nope I didn't care for that at all. Not in TPM anyway.


As far as the two headed alien head bob, I thought that alien design was bad anyway. An alien announcer would've been cool, speaking Huttesse of course, as it was a sporting event but a single head would've been enough for me.

 

"So whats the difference between the cliches "Not this ship sister!" and "That's gotta hurt!"?"

"not this ship, sister" is not a cliche, thats the difference.

when was the last time you heard someone say "not this ship, sister"?

how many times have you heard someone say "that's gotta hurt"?

go look up the definition, then come back to the discussion.

 

when was the last time you heard someone say "not this ship, sister"?

how many times have you heard someone say "that's gotta hurt"?

go look up the definition, then come back to the discussion.


You hear people say "That's gotta hurt." almost on a weekly/monthly basis.

So we're basing our dialogue judgement on cliches and frequency of use now?

 

While "sister" may have roots further back, it was definitely slang from around the time A New Hope was written. If the scripts were written today, Han would have said, "Not this ship, gurlfrend!" (misspelling intentional to indicate inflection).

 

"You hear people say "That's gotta hurt." almost on a weekly/monthly basis."

exactly my point. thats what makes it a cliche. and yes writing is judged on cliches... its the one thing just about any professor wants their students to avoid.

"If the scripts were written today, Han would have said, "Not this ship, gurlfrend!"

and you would be happy with that?

yes, "sister" was also used in the 70s, more like "sistah", but i thought i (and Lucas) made it clear that the dialogue style he was going for was 30's Nick and Nora Charles/screwball comedy. why would he all of a sudden throw in a 70s reference? unless you think he is really that bad of a writer who is unable to keep his dialogue and characters consistent.

 

yes, "sister" was also used in the 70s, more like "sistah", but i thought i (and Lucas) made it clear that the dialogue style he was going for was 30's Nick and Nora Charles/screwball comedy. why would he all of a sudden throw in a 70s reference? unless you think he is really that bad of a writer who is unable to keep his dialogue and characters consistent.


You're insane if your think that some aspect of the 70s didn't influence the dialogue of the OT. Whether conscious or sub-conscious, Lucas had lived in and was a product of the times.

 

So many double standards, so little time.

 

I think that GL weakened the movie by using dialogue that we use here in real life which ultimatly makes me feel like im not in a Galaxy far far away.

I felt that such lines and references help the viewer to be able to connect with the characters. If every prhase they use is from the Star Wars galaxy, it would take a while for viewers to catch on to what they mean, and eventually many would give up their frustrated efforts and never enjoy the films for what they are.

 

Amazing, suddenly they're defending 30's and 40's camp while the rest of time, such stylized writing is unacceptable. Double standards indeed!

 

This thread will end if this discussion does not get back on the topic and off the posters.

 

The stylized writing hardly resembles any 1930s/40s movie anyone has ever seen. It's a "Lucasian" attempt at it, or a fabricated excuse to take some of the heat (some of it deserved) off of his flanneled back.
I feel the PT dialogue is inconsistent and inferior to the quality of the OT, so I there are no double standards here. Critics aren't turning a blind eye to flaws in the OT, they are discussing why they feel the quality of one trilogy is not up to the standards set by another trilogy. It's an opinion, not a double standard.

I'd also like to see some more examples of how ANH's script is so infused with 70s culture. Can you show me some lines? Just be glad Alec Guinness doesn't utter inanities like "Not good" before being CG-ed and yanked over a railing (one of the laughable moments in Star Wars), or "This party's over" or how about having CPO say "This is such a drag" or "That's gotta hurt." Yes, that would've improved the OT immensely.

 

am I the only poster here who still refers to female friends as "sister"? I thought this phrase was still in use.

Also how come no one mentions Leia's line "Would it help if I got out and pushed?"?

Did any vehicles in the OT have motorized wheels?

 

I'd also like to see some more examples of how ANH's script is so infused with 70s culture. Can you show me some lines? Just be glad Alec Guinness doesn't utter inanities like "Not good" before being CG-ed and yanked over a railing (one of the laughable moments in Star Wars), or "This party's over" or how about having CPO say "This is such a drag" or "That's gotta hurt." Yes, that would've improved the OT immensely.


As it was said above:

While "sister" may have roots further back, it was definitely slang from around the time A New Hope was written.

Anyone who writes anything is in somehow influenced by the times which they have or are currently living in, it's a fact. You ask me to cite specific examples, but in turn, can you give me factual evidence showing that the dialogue of ANH wasn't influenced by 70s culture in the smallest way?

 

My point about the two-headed announcers isn't that they use referential dialogue, but that they are referential in every way (except they're aliens instead of humans). It's like the diner in AOTC. It doesn't just have 50's arcitech, but also a droid waitress who acts and is styled after waitresses for diners, and a big fat greasy guy who runs the joint. All refential. I can handle Roger-Roger (actually, I like the line Roger-Roger), but the two-headed announcer is just too much for my tastes.

 

So we aren't allowed to point out things that seem like double standards to us? We have to act like every complaint against the prequels is reasonable? Even when we think otherwise? If only Lucas could get the kind of protection his detractors get around here.

 

Anyone who writes anything is in somehow influenced by the times which they have or are currently living in, it's a fact. You ask me to cite specific examples, but in turn, can you give me factual evidence showing that the dialogue of ANH wasn't influenced by 70s culture in the smallest way?

Well, you said people were "insane" not to see the obvious influence of 70s culture permeating its way into the dialogue. I'd think you'd be more willing to provide plenty of examples since you kind of make it sound like ANH was bursting with them. "Walking carpet" and "I was going to go to the Toshi Station to pick up some power converters" doesn't sound 70s to me.

Fact is, TPM has far more modern-day references in its dialogue to pull the viewer out of their sphere of believability than ANH or ESB ever did. AOTC has more blatant references to other things, like its American Graffiti reference with Dex's Diner.

Lucas and his collaborators did a good job of really creating another galaxy with its own rules and vernacular back then. Now, he seems to allow the modern-day references and homages to spill right through the gate without a moments hesitation. Intentional? Yes. Wise? That's up for debate.

 

Remember Gomer TFN is basher friendly *rolls eyes*

I think attacking the film for referential dialogue or details is basically attacking all the films. And thats pretty ironic. If only the Bashers considered being balanced in their assessment instead of being incredibly biased toward their childhood memories and using that to attack the Prequels.

Frankly I see nothing wrong with the influences in terms of the dialogue or characters or whatever in TPM nor in AOTC, ANH, ESB & ROTJ. Its what gives us connection with Star Wars and the characters therein.

Personally I think some of the thoughts by the bashers are flawed and illogical at best. They're arguing based on personal taste not on any objectivity.

 

Go-Mer that protection is equal. I protect those of us who like TPM as much as I do those that don't.

 

Fact is, TPM has far more modern-day references in its dialogue to pull the viewer out of their sphere of believability than ANH or ESB ever did. AOTC has more blatant references to other things, like its American Graffiti reference with Dex's Diner.


In all fairness, you cannot honestly make that argument unless you lived back in the times when the OT was released and by live, I mean 13 years or older. Anyone younger than that wouldn't be able to pick up on any less than obvious cultural cliches of that time.

 

Dialogue in the OT = cheese.

Dialogue in the PT = cheese.

Any questions?

 

Yes, what kind of cheese are we talking about?

Dashes, for what it's worth, I remember the late 70s. "Sister" is the only thing I can remember that might be considered referential.

 

In all fairness, you cannot honestly make that argument unless you lived back in the times when the OT was released and by live, I mean 13 years or older. Anyone younger than that wouldn't be able to pick up on any less than obvious cultural cliches of that time.

I'd be willing to debate, but there are no provided examples to debate with. Show me what you feel are obvious 70s terms/phrases in ANH or ESB or even ROTJ and I'd be willing to look into it. We've already discussed the "sister" line and DrEvazan has already shown it has its roots in 1930s slang.

I've seen quite a few examples of referential dialogue from TPM, but I'm reaching deep into my memory for lines from ANH and I still don't see anything that sticks out the way some lines in TPM do. You're argument is that whatever TPM did, ANH did too. Well, I disagree. Not on the same level. (If TPM did everything ANH did I'd be happy.)

 

Did Lucas write TPM any different than ANH, or the rest of the OT? I seriously doubt it. Nor chances being that his form of influences changed very much either. I'm also glad to see that Dr Evanzan received his masters degree in sociology from TFN, with a major in cultural influence analysis.


This is pointless, you can debate facts but not opinions. There are no facts here.

 

am I the only poster here who still refers to female friends as "sister"? I thought this phrase was still in use.

You maybe the only one.

As fot the dilogue. I would not use any of the dilogue in the OT or the PT in ever day life.

I mean really can you see someone saying this.

Vader: I have felt him my master.

Or this:

Han: Come on Golden rod.

 

This is pointless, you can debate facts but not opinions. There are no facts here.

It is not pointless. While it is fruitless to debate opinions, it is NOT fruitless to compare opinions. There are three levels on which I see opinions working here. First is whether or not there is more/less/same amounts of "referencial" dialogue in the new SW films vs. the old ones. Second is WHAT constitutes "referencial" dialogue. Third is does the "referencial" dialogue actually bother you.