Reflections on the Clone Wars in totality *Long and Detailed- Everyone welcome*

Ahhhh the Clone Wars are almost over and I thought I?d take a moment in this forum (and a duplicate in the Skywalker thread to take away from the tired subject of why Anakin is just the neatest thing since Luke Skywalker vs. Anakin is a bad bad bad man out to steal his son?s thunder-this never happened with Anakin Solo) to talk about the other characters of the Clone Wars.

Maybe, we can spark some conversation on subjects OTHER than this tired old debate as we wait out the old arrival of the Insect Trilogy.

Some general thoughts about the ups and downs of the Clone Wars media campaign for me.

Obi Wan Kenobi- Dark Horse comics clearly went for the idea that Obi Wan was to be the hero of the Clone Wars and his many actions during this show tend to show up him as the greatest of the Jedi Generals during the Clone Wars. He stopped the plague that destroyed Naboo?s moon colonies, he lead plenty of Republic armies, and he had some kickass duels with Ventress/Durge.

His largest story arc seems to be Obi Wan Kenobi being captured and tortured by Ventress before deciding to hunt her down like a wild dog. Obi Wan also got a romance (as Jedi get them), in the revelation he was in love with fellow Jedi Siri Tachi.

The Clone Wars had the biggest effect on my opinion of Obi Wan in the fact that Obi Wan did try to reach out to Anakin, did give him approval, and seemed to be shown as a true friend for the most part. The irony that it was too late and Anakin couldn?t share what he really needed to (I killed the women and the children) is the tragedy. Obi wan even kept the secret of Anakin?s relationship with Padme, abet not the marriage part that he was unaware of.

Padme- Criminally underused during the Clone Wars. At most, we know she and Anakin liked to occasionally snuggle under the covers and visit congually while he was off fighting the War. Lucas still lives very much in the 40s it seems.

Yoda- Yoda mostly got to be the voice of reason during the Clone Wars. It?s a pity though that Yoda was one of the Jedi Generals. Quite a few Republic JedI masters saw that the war was wrong to rage but Yoda didn?t. His comic Jedi: Yoda was very well done in establishing the difference between Yoda and the other JedI. Even during the height of the war, Yoda merely wanted to preserve the Republic and held no distaste for the Separatists. Dark Rendevouz also established that he wanted to bring his padawan back.

Mace Windu- Mace, like Yoda, got his own novel during the Clone Wars. I was a tad disappointed that Mace, Yoda, Obi Wan, and Anakin all proved to be exceptional Generals during the Clone Wars. I had rather hoped we?d see some genuine JedI incompetence on the battle field. Still, he certainly was cool and Mathew Stover?s Shatterpoint remains one of my favorite novels.

Oddly, Shatterpoint and Cloak of Deception[\i] with a bit of Labyrinth of Evil finally convinced me the Sith believe the Dark Side is merely the ?whole of the Force.?

Mace seems to be an amusing character, his tough guy humor hiding an honestly gentle and good man. He certainly can kick ass though and loves the ?art? of fighting rather than fighting itself. It makes me wonder how so many JedI could have seen emotions as bad when Yoda, Obi Wan, and Mace all believed they were good.

Palpatine was deliciously evil throughout them. I admit, he was portrayed as a touch TOO violent though. Palpatine murdered his predecessor in the Senate, King Veruuna his former boss, murdered Finnis Valorum, and had several assassins moving nonstop during the clone Wars. It just seemed a tad?.overkill (no pun intended) for all the people sleeping with the fishes.

The comics and Labyrinth of Evil also did their best to play up Anakin/Palpatine and they did pretty well.

Ironically, the Clone Wars had the most curious affect for me on a group that I?d like to take sometime to muse on.

Jango fett, Boba Fett and the Stormtroopers are some of the most unlikely heroes to come

 

Well, I agree on some parts (PLEASE don't have them 'redeem' Asajj in the end...PLEASE)
And most of all...Dooku is not a sympathetic guy. His story may be one, but Dooku himself is pure evil. His whole persona is people THINK he's sympathetic and a kind, misguided guy...

 

Well I don't have control the Comics but I'm pretty sure that Assaj won't be redeemed. While we saw her cry over the theft of her master's lightsaber, she went after Anakin tooth and claw.

She threatened PADME for crying out loud and the only thing she ever did as he cast her down to Hell was spit in his face with the fact 'Jedi don't kill'

I don't think there's really room for redemption in what remains of the story arc. Maybe if they had done the original 12 issues like they'd planned.

Dooku, I think is a sympathetic character, he was sincerely remorseful in Dark Rendevouz. I think this was a good idea as it adds gravitas that Quilan Vos' "you are still a Jedi" quotes were actually affecting him rather than just bouncing off his teflon soul.

He's somewhat like Saruman in the Lord of the Rings (and not just because they were both played by Christopher Lee) in that...unlike Sauron, he's not totally pure evil.

 

Well, Saruman's flaw was arrogance, too. He thought he could beat Sauron but was corrupted. He WAS once the greatest of the Istarti, after all.
While sincerely regretful at first, Dooku rejects the light in the end. He is what he's made himself: What murdering Sypho-Dyaz had turned him into: A true Sith Lord.
And are you forgetting after Quin's 'I'm still a Jedi as are you' speech, Dooku decapitated an unarmed ex-dictator?

 

Take note that Saruman wasn't redeemed in the end either. I'm just establishing that, unlike with Ventress, I can actually feel a measure of sympathy for Count Dooku as opposed to her.

Dooku at least has the capacity for emotion and good...even if he's consciously rejected them. I even feel pity for General Grevious who was made into the monster he is.

Ventress is just a maddog like Aurra Sing and Durge. Genuinely psycopaths. Even Darth Maul had the excuse of a lifetime of physical abuse and mental torture.

Compare this to my feelings on jango who seems to now lean more to the angels than the devils nowadays thanks to his portrayals. Anakin, similarily falls here.

Dooku, at his best, was never a person with half the humanity Anakin has in my opinion.

 

No denials at all. I'm just saying in the end, Dooku is indeed the bad guy and one of two men responsible for all the bloodshed. He threw away his chance for redemption
Maul never had a choice to be other than what he was...and Durge...wouldn't call him a PSYCHO per say, not any more than Bok and Tsyr the Morgukai, but Aurra and Ventress....HOO yeah.
Another example of evil is Sora Bulq

 

Durge I think is genuinely mentally ill, its confirmed on the Star Wars official site that he's a violent an aggressive member of an otherwise usually peaceful species. They don't SAY he's genetically unbalanced but I think its pretty heavily implied.

Durge kills for pleasure and no reason is what I think its been shown.

One of the reasons I don't like him is the fact that he resembles very strongly another trash talking bounty hunter who regenerates every wound. Lobo. A rightfully reviled character.

Ventress, on the other hand, kills because she is a selfish vindictive witch. Her parents were killed and she apparently loved them enough to mourn their passing, she was adopted by a Jedi Master who apparently she loved and presumably got a good education from in the ways of the force/good, and she as soon as he died....

Becomes a psychopathtic monster out to destroy the Jedi and conquer her world. Luke was orphaned twice and the thought of becoming a murderer never occurred to him once.

The screws are genuinely loose there.

Sometimes, I miss the days when the Dark Side was like the "One Ring." It would explain how even slightly traumatized force sensetive people have the potential to become true lunatics.

 

Yeah, point on Durge...least HE'S gone now...and yes, Ventress is a psychopath. Especially her response to Obi-wan saying Ky wouldn't want her to seek vengeance

 

She cried after that.

Maybe she just REALLY liked that lightsaber.

I admit, I believed Ventress could be redeemed until Dark Rendevouz.

Dooku is actually human enough to EXPLAIN to her that being a Sith is a horrible thing and she should run away quickly.

She just stares at him like a rottweiler with the big eyes trying to understand how he's telling her "Evil is good" (even though he's not)

 

Hehehe, true that.
I was referring to her in the Rendili arc... "I don't CARE what he would have wanted!!!!"

 

I really should have gotten that arc but I didn't. I'll wait for Trade Paperback.

I'm guessing Obi Wan just tried to reach the one bit of humanity he thought she had but failed to realize she crossed that Rubicon long ago. As a note, my personal guess is Ventress' parents were probably evil warlords to begin with.

One of the main problems with the Clone Wars is also the lack of military commanders on both sides. Adar Tallon, Jan Dodonna (ESPECIALLY Jan Dodonna), and others should have been major supporting characters during this war.

Until Grevious, we didn't even have any real generals.

The lack of fleet battles has been commented on but I didn't really mind all that much. This was a war mainly about troops

(Though why we didn't have infinite numbers of clones....I heard was actually just a mistake from Lucas who didn't realize they were asking how many TOTAL would be produced)

 

If you want to know anything abouit Rendili, feel free to ask me.
I doubt her parents were warlords...Kirske killed them 'before they became a threat' and he did it personally at that.

 

The slave (from the TPB exactly)

"But there were many other warlords who struggled for power. Including Ventress' parents. They assembled a massive army in the Southern Hemisphere."

Ventress is shown as a little girl between them with a blaster rifle.

So admittedly, as a child soldier, she does deserve A LITTLE slack for flaved up childhoods.

 

Ah, whoops...point seen

 

No problem.

I'm also very annoyed that we never saw Commander Cody, he's supposed to be Obi Wan's best friend and yet he doesn't show up once during the media campaign.

This isn't a spoiler because it's in Labyrinth of Evil.

 

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were fantastically done for their 5 minute shorts but?..every fan I think secretly asked ?why just five minutes??

It's edited into a full-length movie on the DVD, with the opening crawl only at the beginning of the whole thing and the end credits only at the end, so it won't feel like five minute episodes there.

 

"Sometimes, I miss the days when the Dark Side was like the "One Ring." It would explain how even slightly traumatized force sensetive people have the potential to become true lunatics."

Me too. Now days it seems all the stories try to portray the Force as just a power source that has no moral-esque polarity.

And everything and everyone is a murky shade of grey.

Things seem to have traded mythological suspense and drama of the Marvel/Dark Empire days for something akin to Legacy of Kain: Soul reaver.

 

I have yet still to understand how using the dark side is exactly like a drug addiction. How it has a mental and physical intoxication on you. It doesn't seem plausable . . . but how does a moving planet?

If you're angry when using the dark side, it's bad. Agreed. And if you're angry but control yourself, then it doesn't need to be dark.

 

I was a tad disappointed that Mace, Yoda, Obi Wan, and Anakin all proved to be exceptional Generals during the Clone Wars.

I think AotC pretty much established that Yoda would make a good general as he's really the only Jedi we see really directing the whole of the army. The other Jedi, once they linked up with the clone army seemed to take on more junior roles. That is to say that they didn't seem to be generals, but more like junior officers of regiments and companies who suddenly find themselves having to take over for the commanding officer of their regiment or company after he or she is killed by an enemy bullet or shell.

 

If you're angry when using the dark side, it's bad. Agreed. And if you're angry but control yourself, then it doesn't need to be dark.

I wouldn't have had any particular problem with that personally but instead of even trying to explain it as force sensetives were more attuned to life and there was greater POTENTIAL danger for using the power of anger (which is a gateway to the dark side) in the Force they decided anger WAS the Dark Side and it made the whole thing ridiculous.

 

Fantastic thoughts there, I agree with much of it. I espically agree with Padme, I really wish she would have had more of a role than "Anakin's Wife". Yes, I know Lucas had her kept out of most stories, but something could have been done with her besides nothing. And spot on with Valorum, he's almost like the first member of the Rebellion in a way.

 

The thing with Dooku is that he embraced the cruelties of the darkside with gusto, where as Anakin never did. When he killed and inflicted pain, even as a Sith Lord, it was always for an end. Even fallen, Darth Vader had a keen sense of honor which most Sith lacked.

The best analogy is this. Anakin said as Vader he was never fully able to "kill the small bit of light" within him. Whereas Dooku suceeded. Sad perhaps, but he chose his fate in the end.

 

Oh, I don't know if Vader was always doing it for noble reasons or with honor. Check out Russ Manning's Planet of Kadril (arguably the worst Star Wars comic ever, but even so...) for some fairly nefarious mustache twisting on Vader's part.

 

I'm still surprised at how well Jango's been portrayed.

Boba Fett got an entire youth series to himself but he's still ultimately a killer for Jabba the Hutt, tries to off Mace Windu, and does all sorts of other morally questionable acts before he grows up to be a genuinely evil person.

I wonder if everyone's fondness for Jango has to do with Temuera Morrison. After Christopher Lee he seemed to do the best acting in the entire film.

...but the Dark Side as a mental intoxication for you is fairly believable. The force is make believe already so the property that channeling the force in a state of anger, lust, or other 'negative emotion' has a euphoric effect or causes brain damage isn't that hard to accept I think.