ST Reformed TLJ Haters: What changed your view?

Liked it at first, and maybe gave it a 7/10. After letting it sit and giving it another rewatch, it’s a 9/10. I’ve seen it three times in total. What do I like the most? Mark’s performance and the ending. The final meeting with Leia and the projection is my favorite sequence from the franchise, bar none. It’s mythic and bittersweet. It makes the movie for me, along with the foreshadowing.

 

I agree on most points. Though I probably enjoy TLJ more than AotC. My buddy and me have an annual Star Wars marathon and we routinely skip AotC.

Oh, it absolutely the same affect on me. Proud uncle moment!

 

I think that’s probably true. I’ve yet to meet one person who didn’t like TLJ but that’s also because everyone I know who saw it in person is a casual / general audience person. I have two fans on my Facebook who I’ve only met once each and one thought it was good but had issues, the other hated it. I feel like the GA loved it but they actually do listen to fans they know like us and the response among fans appears to me to be more divisive. It’s not really “mixed” though, it’s literally like so many fans think TLJ is one of the best and many others think one of the worst. I’m not really sure though, maybe my impression is wrong. It is after all very anecdotal and not scientific or reliable.

 

The point being, you made an incendiary post then removed it while someone was still reacting. If you don't want to get called out for trolling, don't troll. It's a simple concept.

I trust we are now done with this subject.

 

That's just it. I didn't post anything inflammatory. No one saw my post. I just changed my mind. So it's assumed it was inflammatory and I got called trolling for it. That doesn't seem right at all.

 

I saw your post. You were clearly suggesting that people who liked the film more after the second viewing were victims of stockholm syndrome. Given your "I'll just leave this here without comment" tone elsewhere, it was pretty obvious what the implication was. At least own that.

 

Haha we all can change our minds sometimes. I have a whole list of great movies I didn’t like much the first time, but gave a second chance. Most of them aren’t popular enough for me to do so for any reason other than just realizing I missed a lot the first time. Like Birdman for instance I thought was ok, pretty good, but something about it made me want to study it more and give it a second chance. I did so only a few weeks later because I kept thinking about what it means. I really love that movie now, but it’s not like anyone else cares what I thought the first time. I wasn’t pressured into liking it as an “awards film” because I’m known to hate most awards films. It was just one I misjudged at first.

Heck the first time I saw Fifth Element I went into it grumpy and annoyed that it was called “Star Wars for the 90s” because there was already going to BE a real Star Wars in 2 years lol. So I didn’t like it, for the dumbest reason - the marketing. I now count it as a favorite movie of mine.

 

haha! There is no movie in history that I went from absolutely loathing to unabashedly loving like the 5th Element. I nearly wanted my money back leaving the theater, and, like you, i now count it among my all-time favorites.

I think the reason for my reaction in that case was similar to what some experienced with TLJ. It was not what i expected it to be, and i reacted. Once i got beyond what I expected it to be, and understood what it actually was, it completely won me over.

 

Sometimes I'll like a movie more and occasionally less upon further review but the only straight up flip for me was Blair Witch Project.

I thought it was pretty great the first time but I had a date that wanted to go too so either the next day or the day after we went to the same theater and I was close to being in the same seat even but somehow on that view it was straight garbage for me.

That didn't compute, it just had never happened with thousands of movies viewed so I tried a third and fourth time on video but it only got worse each time.

Things shuffle around up and down sometimes but that one completely went the other way.

I tell you all something else related. For some reason I'm liking AOTC more but Sith less of late, I guess I'm in middle chapter mode.

 

I remember I did a 180 of my opinion after seeing Pulp Fiction for the 2nd time. Most of my friends were telling me it was a must see movie and it was a masterpiece by Tarantino. I watched it and the movie did nothing for me on the first viewing as I thought "what am I missing here?" Then I watched it again, and it all worked and it is one of my favorite movies and never miss it when it is on cable.

 

I watched the Hobbit (extended) trilogy, and loved it.

Only then I discovered I was supposed to hate it.

I understand that hardcore Tolkien fans did not like the major changes to the original story, but for me, I just didn't care, I loved it. And since the Hobbit Bluray has the best extras of all times, the whole process and the decisions were very well explained.

I wonder how many persons are going to watch TLJ already knowing that they are supposed to hate it, and then leave the theather not understanding what all the drama was all about.

 

So I've now seen it four times. Here are my reactions after each viewing:

1. Wow, there were some great scenes and yet... I didn't like it? I'm going to sit on it, but it's left me with an unpleasant taste in my mouth.
2. That was epic! It reminded me of The Two Towers. Still not sure I like it, but the artistry is top-notch.
3. Ah, it has a great '80s fantasy vibe, including all the hits and misses those films had. Maybe it's just really well made within that style.
4. Everything is clicking now! How could I not see this before? Every moment informs the whole. This is brilliant, and it feels like Star Wars. I never knew what was missing in every movie since ESB until now. STAR WARS IS BACK!!!

Quite an interesting journey. I'm so looking forward to the Blu-ray.

 

Even though I'm still not a fan of Luke's characterization, I've grown to really like how he gradually re-acclimates with the Force through training Rey, leading to him pulling the ultimate Force Card at the end. It's very subtle how he uses the force to stop himself from falling on Ach-To, and then sees Yoda, and then graduates back to Master Luke at the end. That stuff is cool.

 

Ok... I still dislike The Last Jedi, but I definitely hate it less than I used to. The biggest thing that reduced my hate was realizing that the main failures are all ultimately fixable. I believe that the damage is more temporary than it appears and that the very worst of it is far from permanent. The evil that was done can also be undone!

For example, I hated Luke's treatment and his death. But now I realize that he could easily come back to life the way Gandalf did in LOTR or the way Aslan did in Narnia. Luke could still live and have a happy ending! We could see him as his true optimistic self again!! And Luke and Rey could still develop a meaningful relationship... That would mean the world to me. Honestly, I have too much hope left to hate The Last Jedi.

Then there is Rey's parentage. The more I think about, the more I believe that Kylo was manipulating her head to get her to join him. The junkers who abandoned her weren't her true parents, it was a total fake out. That means Rey could still be Luke's long lost daughter! That realization made me very very happy. So yeah, there is plenty of hope left for Rey's parentage, I actually feel silly for accepting Kylo's lies so fast now. I gave up on Rey Skywalker far too quickly.

Then there's the fact that Rey shut the door on Kylo at the end, symbolizing the end of Reylo. I was grossed out by the large number of scenes with them together, but now I see they were just using that as a plot device to reveal how evil Kylo actually is, "I'll destroy her. And you. And all of it." Finn & Rey's hug at the end redeems all the other nonsense that went on. So really, my main pairing was validated while my least favorite had a door literally shut in it's face... All in all, not so bad.

Plus, Snoke. There's still plenty of time to explain who he was and how he turned Kylo away from Luke. And think about the giant scar on his head...It seems that he's survived impossible trauma once, perhaps he can do it again. Anyways, I'm sure we will get to learn more about him later, my despair over the lack of info was shortsighted. If we're patient for a couple more years all the explanations will be given to us. There's nothing wrong with a little waiting.

Oh, and the Skywalkers aren't over yet! That's a huge plus in this movie's favor. There may be a hidden mystery child (Rey) or Kylo may live on and have children, who knows. So long as that door remains open, I cannot truly hate The Last Jedi.

 

I definitely think we'll get more Luke and he'll be along the lines of the guy we see in act 3. Grumpy Luke is done now. That part of the arc is over. Could he come back or will he remain a force ghost? I think it'll be the former, but it could also be the latter. But given Force ghosts can affect the physical world, I'm not sure how much it matters. He won't be a lead, but I think he will have a key role still to plat.

 

So you didn't really change your view, you've just gotten enough hope back to root for JJ to clean up RJ's "mess".

Which means this all has nothing to do with this thread.

 

I'd love for Luke to come back in physical form. I'm not sure what role Luke can fulfil in IX as a Force Ghost that Yoda or Obi-Wan could not do.

There's also the fact that a Jedi sacrificing himself does not have the same edge or finality as a normal person, as they are back soon after - seconds later on Obi-Wan's case. Maybe they could give Luke a situation where he can manifest himself to contribute in some way, but have it that Force Ghosts who do this cannot return to the Force when they die again (essentially they are creating life by doing this, which is very darkside).

In that way, Luke could get back in there, save the Resistance and make the ultimate and final sacrifice by laying down his life permanently for the heroes to go on and win the day.

 

Yes, something like that is interesting.


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Maybe IX could bring a new dimension which would be Force Ghosts fighting each other. That would be new and interesting.

 

Rick Carted (IIRC) or one of the concept artists mentions that they definitely explored the idea of the spirit world as the last battlefront for Jedi, so I don't think something like that is impossible.

 

Whoa, that would be trippy.

Truly some Clone Wars-esque type stuff for sure. But they've certainly kicked the door down for some of that weirdness to be in future films, for sure.

p.s. that reminds me... I really need to get a copy of The Art of The Last Jedi.

 

Saw TFA in theaters 7 (8?) times.

Saw RO in theaters 5 times.

Have seen TLJ 4 times, so far.

Have TFA on Blu-Ray, RO digital-only. Have watched each a few, maybe 3 or 4 times max, each.

But man, I am going to re-watch the f out of the TLJ Blu-Ray. Haven't looked forward to a BR release like this in forever.

 

I really liked it both times I saw it.

Movie freaking works for me. What can I say?

As for the Canto Bight stuff, I agree that it feels shoehorned and unnecessary, but on the second viewing, I realized something...the Canto Bight sequence is only two scenes and they aren't that long. When I was told that they dragged the movie to a screeching halt, I can't help but disagree slightly. Its the weakest material in the movie, but it didn't completely kill the momentum of the film, and also, I like BB-8 a lot, so any time he's on screen, I am generally happy, haha.

 

After my 2nd viewing I echo your #4 sentiments.

It is honestly a brilliant movie.

Also I almost cried (2nd viewing) when Luke says "The Rebellion is reborn. The war has just begun. And I will not be the last Jedi". EPIC!!