ST Regarding Rey and Snoke - we the audience were deceived - we did not see what we think we saw

I have similar feelings of dread.

 

Just like Lucas did with the Original Trilogy?

Remember, it wasn't planned out for Vader to be the father and Leia to be the sister. They considered having Luke go dark and leaving Leia to save the galaxy. The original trilogy went through many changes with each writing process. Indeed, had Lucas' marriage not fell apart when it did, it's not too hard to imagine Return of the Jedi going very differently and Lucas coming out with an Episode VII three years later in 1986.

 

Yes okay I get it. Whatever happened, the OT still turned out to be a fulfilling, complete and cohesive story. What we have now in ST seems to have a lot less substance, which is a pity, because the whole saga could tell an epic story on par with LotR, if you will.. with so much lore and detail and story arcs on a grand scale that speak to wide audiences in all generations.

Of course I'm going to see Episode IX, but my expectations and desires have come down a lot already, after seeing TLJ. I will go again, though, and see if things improve. The Clone Wars and Rebels series that I have watched during the #WaitforVIII have provided much richer, compelling stories than the official movies, which should be the pinnacle, really.. but sadly, aren't.

 

I'm hoping the chosen force thing you mention is right or that they do something about her parents because I hated that reveal and I do think snoke is dead and Kylo is now the big bad

 

I can go along with both explanations. I wish you had JJ's ear. Particularly if Rey is a manifestation of the living Force, it would explain her amazing powers credibly.

 

The Last Jedi seemed to imply that the Jedi were "hoarding" the force or something to that effect. I really don't like the implications of that, but I think that is the message they are going with. I am starting to doubt if concepts like "the will of the force" or "the living force" still apply in the new cannon. Hopefully, I'm wrong.

As for the audience being deceived, I unfortunately also do not think that is the case. I think it is possible given the backlash that it might change, but I think the intent of Episode 8 was for Snoke to "not matter" and Rey's origin to "not matter". The intent was for "us the audience" to feel "empowered" by the possibility that "anyone can be a hero." The ending shot with broom boy was intended to make us somehow feel hopeful that the "little guys" now have the "power to make a difference." I don't particularly like that or the way it was presented, but that seems to be the message they are trying to tell us.

People keep saying fans were upset because it doesn't match their "headcannon," but the truth is closer to "fans are upset because it doesn't match the themes previously established." In the past, things in Starwars mattered. The whole universe up till this point has supported the idea that "Things you do matter and things happen for a reason, the individual matters, individual people can make a difference" "There is good and evil and you have to decide which side you want to be on".

The Last Jedi tells us "Things you do don't matter and things don't happen for a reason...but somehow that is okay, everyone matters, the collective can make a difference" "You have to decide for yourself what is considered good and evil". Some people seem to like that way of thinking, while others do not. That is what is causing the disconnect with people that are divided over this direction.

I think the comparison to Mass Effect 3 mentioned above is a pretty spot on answer. The ending of that game conflicted with the themes set up earlier in the game. You could also say the same for the 3rd Matrix movie. In both those cases, you saw a large portion of the fans embrace these fan theories about the universe to make sense of something that isn't connecting for them.

I would like to believe there is more to this new direction and we are just being set up to be mislead, but I do not think that is the case, or at least wasn't at the time the Last Jedi was being filmed.

 

Unfortunately I believe Snoke is really dead. We have have an emo man-child who can't even win a lightsabre duel as the new big bad.

Yay. Hopefully the next trilogy is better than this garbage.

 

Yeh because GL never wasted cool villains before, just one of the coolest of all-time with Maul.

That said, they could have handled Snoke much better. This movie went out of its way to undo much of 7….some for the better while others not.